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08-13-2015, 12:26 PM #31
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08-13-2015, 12:28 PM #32
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Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Are you aware of his situation with his school administration? There was a situation of some slurs being used in a basketball game in Lexington and an article was done about it. The schools involved then launched an investigation into the situation, and despite some pretty good documentation on the part of the reporter, both schools administrations deemed the harrassment as not happening and stated that the original article on the incident was basically a "fabrication", despite eyewitnessess that were on the record. So then when the yearbook thing happens it is hard for those that are familiar with the situation to believe that this "human error". I have always believed there is no such thing as a coincidence, and this would be one hell of a coincidence and one that borders on the absurd. Here is the sequence of articles that show the situation Dalton has been involved with that lead up to his picture being omitted by "human error" from the basketball page of his yearbook. BTW, the "he is in the yearbook 15 times" excuse is about as asinine as can be, and certainly to me shows the callous nature of the "human error", apparently he was an involved member of the high school, so he got his picture in the yearbook a lot, but when it came time to include him with his fellow seniors, as part of a senior honor that everyone got, he was omitted by quote human error unquote, sorry doesn't pass the smell test to me.
First article containing original accusations:
http://www.outsports.com/2015/4/1/83...tball-kentucky
Second Article about the "fabricated" first article:
http://www.outsports.com/2015/6/18/8...l-kentucky-911
Article about the yearbook omission:
http://www.outsports.com/2015/8/12/9...lton-maldonado
Dalton's response to "investigation" into "human error" explanation:
http://www.outsports.com/2015/8/12/9...donado-pictureIts FOOTBALL time in the Bluegrass...and some basketball talk!!!!
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08-13-2015, 12:30 PM #33
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Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Miss Fuchs who was in my graduating class back in the day was upset when her name was misspelled. Folks, it happens. In her case it was an honest mistake at the printer. Once 500 of those things have been distributed and people has written in them, there is not much that can be done. To her credit she and her family graciously accepted the story and the apology. I believe a lot of people need to follow suit. Not every omission, not every error is a slight. GOI - get over it.
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08-13-2015, 12:33 PM #34
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Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Last edited by elicat; 08-13-2015 at 12:39 PM.
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08-13-2015, 12:40 PM #35
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Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
I think you mistook my point. I wasn't saying anything against him. He's a kid in high school. Acknowledge that for what it is. He's a kid in high school.
Now, if he's been militant & vociferous about it, then I can see where his position may have rubbed some people the wrong way. But that doesn't give anyone the right to treat him any differently than any other kid in that school, straight, gay, or otherwise.MOLON LABE!
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08-13-2015, 12:45 PM #36
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Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Yes I have read the articles. if you read the second article the reporter tells you he interviewed Dalton, a teammate and an assistant coach and all told the same story with a few minor details different, then AFTER the investigation claiming the original article was a fabrication the reporter interviewed a parent of a teammate, who once again CORROBORATED what the previous 3 witnesses told him. Dalton also saved the text messages he received after the original incident, of which one thread is published in the second article defending the first article. They also have a 911 dispatch where the dispatcher classified the 911 call as pertaining to a "terroristic threat", so unless the caller was lying to the dispatcher, why did the dispatcher come to the conclusion what they were hearing was a "terroristic threat".
So there was plenty of facts to go with the opining in the original article, and the reporter added more facts in his second article. If the reporters opining offended you, understand he is doing it based on the facts that he discovered, and is doing it in a format, SB Nation, where facts and opinions are regularly interlaced in articles. I mean how many places now report stories in this exact same way, SB Nation, Grantland, and a million other "blog" spots report news this way.Its FOOTBALL time in the Bluegrass...and some basketball talk!!!!
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08-13-2015, 02:56 PM #37
Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
I suppose every time there is a situation like this, we can just say "probably due to human error".
I guess that can be said pertaining to just about anything, but as MTcatfan has asserted, there's a history BEFORE this alleged "misprint".
Somehow the point guard, best player, and only known gay athlete in his school, recently coming out no less, gets left off of the ONE place where he is most famous to the community AND his school. The fact that homophobia has been deeply entrenched in "manly" realms such as athletics for a dog's age could not be considered by some on this thread as a possible realm wherein this might happen in THIS instance too.
Maybe it was the student(s) and/or admins from the school who put the yearbook page together and it really was an oopsie, but like kingcat has contended, this quacks too much like a duck to be a goose.
JMO."Shut your eyes and you'll burst into flame"
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08-13-2015, 03:06 PM #38
Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Another story, this time by a coach (opinion piece)...
http://www.outsports.com/2015/8/12/9...etball-coaches"Shut your eyes and you'll burst into flame"
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08-13-2015, 05:25 PM #39
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Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Last edited by elicat; 08-13-2015 at 05:32 PM.
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08-13-2015, 06:30 PM #40
Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Yes, it would be a bit like forgetting to put Karl Towns Bio in a UK publication and then trying to claim they forgot. This is Kentucky, this is basketball. He wasn't the 3 string QB or he didn't write a poem. He was the starting PG, the teams best player and recently came out as being gay, and was the target of much backlash and harassment. He wasn't an unknown. Sure it could have been an error of omission when it was put together...or it could have been the publisher forgot to include that page...or it could have been the yearbook fairy (no pun intended) came in the middle of the night and made that section disappear by waving her magic wand....but I don't think that happened.
“You show me a good loser, and I will show you a loser.” - Jim Otto
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08-13-2015, 06:32 PM #41
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08-13-2015, 06:50 PM #42
Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Yeah, and a magic fairy with a wand could've said, "poof, all the gay athletes disappear," and that didn't happen either, Doc.
I'm sorry you didn't find the real life examples, rather than the fantasy, compelling. That's fine, although again, I find logic lacking in these rush to condemn the yearbook staff.
Here's more.
My daughter is a junior at her high school. She plays volleyball and golf, and is a member of show choir. National honor society, all that jazz. Has been a soccer sweetie, PALS, etc. Heavily involved in school.
I just asked her who the point guard was for her school's basketball team. She had no idea. I asked her who the best basketball player was at her school. She didn't know, although she knows some of the players. Doesn't go to the games.
I just asked her who the quarterback was for her school's football team. She knew him, but some less-involved friends didn't know. And that was a 10-win, state semifinal, 7A team. In Alabama.
It's a yearbook staff with high school students, and they aren't involved in athletics, and many of them don't have a clue.
Listen--it could've been intentional. But this notion that it couldn't have been overlooked is preposterous.
I'd love to read some facts, rather than the p-poor media story that was lacking in substance. Even their headline was faulty. At least, there was nothing in the story about the photo being removed, but there was an allegation that it was omitted. Same thing, a difference without a distinction? Maybe. But it set the tone for the lynch mob mentality the story took, and others have gravitated to with a vengeance.
I hate to see anybody--anybody--treated unfairly. In this case, it's not the gay athlete.
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08-13-2015, 07:26 PM #43
Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
The problem is that there is no necessary connection between the situation at that game and the school's investigation and this omission. None.
Schools are run by bureaucrats. Bureaucrats above all else want to keep from sticking their necks out or getting in trouble. So in one case they want to sweep an incident under the rug to keep it from being a problem b/c that's what is best for them, yet now they're going to CREATE a problem for themselves by poking a sore subject with a really sharp stick?
Come on guys, that's now how those entities work. In both cases they will do the same thing: avoid taking action and avoid taking blame. They don't take action to create things for which they will get blamed, they just don't. They REALLY don't take action to create problems for themselves for which they have nothing to gain.
Maybe it was one lone guy, a student or someone else with a big ax to grind and the brains of a walnut, it could happen, but it's almost certainly not some multi-person level policy decision and it's likely not even intentional, at least not for anyone in the chain of command who now has to deal with the fallout.
Sure they were dismissive of his incident with the game. If they accept it as true look at all that work for them. But to create an incident that gains them nothing and costs them a lot? Very unlikely at best.People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
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08-13-2015, 07:29 PM #44
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Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Listen--it could've been intentional. But this notion that it couldn't have been overlooked is preposterous.
I'd love to read some facts, rather than the p-poor media story that was lacking in substance. Even their headline was faulty. At least, there was nothing in the story about the photo being removed, but there was an allegation that it was omitted. Same thing, a difference without a distinction? Maybe. But it set the tone for the lynch mob mentality the story took, and others have gravitated to with a vengeance.
I hate to see anybody--anybody--treated unfairly. In this case, it's not the gay athlete.
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08-13-2015, 07:34 PM #45
Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Parse out four words, then apply your political obsessions to to mean that I am calling YOU a homophobe.
Sorry, but that rings only of some partisan debate you seem constantly a part of, meaning I have made clear on this board how I feel about this one issue. Political debates between "the left" and "the right" are things I rarely engage in. Gay rights is really the only issue I have been vocal about, in a public context beyond a few people, in a long time. Because there has been news on that score, I have expressed myself. The rest is your choice to twist phrases and ignore context.
I made one point with that four word phrase you parsed out... that athletics, gym class, any realm of "toughness" has been a haven for homophobia for a long time. You may not agree with that, but that is my opinion based upon my experiences and the experiences of a great many LGBT friends of mine. Please note that I speak generally here, not at all meaning to declare that ALL straight athletes are like that, nor are all teams like that, nor are all athletic "cultures" like that, but it has been and, to different degrees depending on the places, continues to be a reality.
What? You have never seen bullying of smaller, less athletic kids in gym class, the first or second thing slung upon them is that they are a {insert homophobic slur here}??. Hell, that happened countless times in gym classes, intramural sports all through high school and college, etc., when I attended. Didn't like it then or now, but the reality is that it happens, and it happens in some places a LOT.
There has been a history of harassment of this kid. Acting like we who believe the yearbook fiasco continues a definitive pattern are not "Stalinist" and applying the word "homophobia" to an ACTUAL phenomenon (NOT a person on this thread... maybe you should re-read for context unless you CHOOSE to believe I am calling ANYONE here a specific prejudicial adjective, which is certainly your prerogative) in locker rooms over countless years is not tantamount to calling those who choose not to "recall" that phenomenon homophobic themselves.
I have no idea what "Newspeak" means because I have no online, TV, radio, or other media choice wired for any particular news source. That's something you follow, not me. I do not participate in any political movements or declare a label for my politics. You may choose not to believe that as well, but it's the truth. I am a rabid non-conformist going way back, and not for show. Just opinions like anyone else that are personally mine. I go by my experiences with my LGBT friends as well as my personal observations to inform my views. That's it.
I have no idea, also, what you mean by "faux psychotic disorder", nor how it would define, in any way, the word "homophobia".
Sorry if you were personally angered by my views. That was not the intent.
Peace."Shut your eyes and you'll burst into flame"
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08-13-2015, 07:36 PM #46
Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
But there was no "history". The school has not been shown to have discriminated against him in the past. What they did was NOT pursue what he saw as discrimination by others who weren't even associated with his school. Maybe that's wrong, but it wasn't an overt act of discrimination, it was good old fashion "cover your ass" work to avoid issues. They didn't stand by the kid maybe, but they also didn't do the harm to him.
This is now a harm to him, overtly and blatantly done, with obvious consequences for the school b/c now they have to answer to these accusations. They really did that intentionally to themselves?
Now, could one person there have done it intentionally? Maybe someone not in the direct chain who somehow intervened to get it done? maybe, possible, but not all that more likely than an error, and if so it will come out as this turns into a dumpster fire.
But "the school" as some monolithic entity shooting itself in the PR foot this way? Doubtful.
And in fact that's why they didnt' stand behind the kid the last time, b/c doing so puts them in a controversy. If the insults never happened then they are safe.
But that's not a "history" that bears on this in any way as a pattern or practice of discrimination against the young man, just a pattern and practice of people doing CYA.People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
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08-13-2015, 07:38 PM #47
Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
"Shut your eyes and you'll burst into flame"
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08-13-2015, 07:41 PM #48
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Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
I don't agree with any form of bullying. That also includes those on this yearbook staff who may be presumed innocent UNTIL proven guilty. Unfortunately, hard facts can't be laid out prior to an assumed narrative being written. That is the problem with the Information Age we live in today. Too often, it is the Misinformation Age from both sides or positions no matter what your point of view may be.
Last edited by UKRxman93; 08-13-2015 at 07:46 PM.
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08-13-2015, 07:53 PM #49
Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
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08-13-2015, 08:28 PM #50
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Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Nope. It's not about me. I don't care who you're calling a homophobe. The word is Stalinist Newspeak no matter whom you are using it to insult.
This is one of those cases where you have said far more than you know. What you said in the quote above is, "I am culturally illiterate. I do not read books, and have no idea what literature is included by every educated person in the Western canon."Last edited by elicat; 08-13-2015 at 08:32 PM.
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08-13-2015, 08:54 PM #51
Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Moved this to the Barber Shop, it's going beyond sports.
Also guys let's remember we're all on the same side here. Even on this issue in the broader sense, we all will agree. we all HOPE this was an honest mistake and not the young man being treated wrongly and we all seem to agree that if this were intentional it's an unacceptable act.
All we're disagreeing on is whether it was intentional or not, and we're all just speculating.People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
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08-13-2015, 09:08 PM #52
Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Should be easy enough for the school to single out who is responsible. And then they can report that to a responsible third party.
At that point the witness for the young man would be outed as no more than a troublemaker. And regardless, a full blown apology is in order, if not a correction imho.
There is that small chance it is a strange coincidence..no one here is arguing it's not at least a slight possibility. But if I had to lay a bet on one argument or the other...I think I know where the smart money would go.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
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08-13-2015, 09:14 PM #53
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Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
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08-13-2015, 09:19 PM #54
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08-13-2015, 09:24 PM #55
Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
All that has really happened in this "exchange" is that you have chosen to re-define my words and meaning, including believing that you know much of anything about how, when, and why I choose to get info and what I choose to focus upon, culturally and literally on a personal level, including suggesting I know not from whence I speak, not knowing my own mind and such. By stating my experiences with homophobia in "manly" realms, I was telling the truth. The fact that you CHOOSE to infer that I am in league with one of the greatest fascists of all time because I suggest that it has existed and still exists, based on too many personal stories that I believe as told to me by friends, relatives, etc., says more about what you want to believe about me than what is even close to being true.
It's an opinion based on experiences. You want to believe I should know what "Newspeak" means. That's some word that political junkies know. I have a lot of things in my life that don't involve rabid following of every news story and political drama that unfolds. But what do I know? Apparently you believe you have "nailed" me as a lying, Stalinist basher of specific folks at Betsy Layne. I believe the kid has suffered from discrimination. Saying so does not make me sympathetic to a maniacal murderer. What kind of crap is that?
So, you are defending every single person who has ever been involved with athletics, though I named no specific person, as never having a homophobic bone in any of their bodies, despite my actual experiences, and then saying so is tantamount to me accusing the entirety of "manly" realms as homophobic, thereby I am unfairly, in some "Stalinistic" fashion, lol, pointing fascist fingers at the people I have not named?
Or is it really that you are asserting that the very WORD "homophobia" is only used by "Stalinist" type people, in this instance, me being the fascist in your model, meaning that the word has no merit AT ALL in Western society? Are all types of prejudice the creation of Stalinist Newspeak, whatever that is, or is it just homophobia? Is that because you believe homophobia is not "real" or that you believe it does not deserve to be defined as a type of prejudice due to conflicts with political or religious beliefs you deem "un-American"?
I am asking because I really know little of what you are talking about with your labels and rather vast assumptions about my life and what I choose to do with my time. Read it again... I said I have no online, TV, or other media CHOICE wired for any PARTICULAR news source. It doesn't mean I don't get news or look into political situations. There are many ways to do that. There are those who more rabidly engage in such activities than others. I know folks who, literally, NEVER watch the news, yet they are quite literate.
The World has a great many opportunities for info, cultural learning, engaging with art, music, politics, and any bevy of hobbies, interests, whatever arena one wants to spend their time in. The fact that you believe I should egage, presumably, in just the way you think I should (I mean you DO know my mind, as you have taken one sentence, gotten it wrong, and then placed words in my mouth redefining your incorrect translation, so you da expert, lol), is not realistic.
You don't know me beyond my sports posting and two political threads, no matter how hard you try to pry out how you want to see me and label me."Shut your eyes and you'll burst into flame"
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08-13-2015, 09:25 PM #56
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08-13-2015, 09:28 PM #57
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Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
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08-13-2015, 09:33 PM #58
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Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
I don't believe in "type people." People are what they do over and over again. You use a word that diagnoses people who disagree with you with a fake psychosis that serves your political agenda. Do I think that is the behavior of a fascist? Yep, I do think that.
Last edited by elicat; 08-13-2015 at 09:34 PM. Reason: spelling
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08-13-2015, 09:43 PM #59
Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
Again, you speak in these terms that I truly do not understand, contextually.
Trying to use your sentence... you are saying that when I use the word, "homophobia", I am "diagnosing", as if I am a doctor (?) all (?) people who disagree with me (about anything and in all situations over my entire life?) with a fake psychosis (is that what you are defining as "gay", meaning they are faking being gay, but are actually psychotic?) that serves my political agenda, that being supporting gay marriage and equal rights for LGBT in America.
Is that about it? Feel free to clear it up for me because, no matter how little you like my beliefs, opinions, and how my experiences have helped form them, I truly do not get your choice of words and my questions are legitimately asked out of real confusion.
Do you always label people you disagree with using extremely inflammatory, clearly historically anti-American, labeling, or is it just folks who believe homophobia exists and is a real phenomenon?"Shut your eyes and you'll burst into flame"
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08-13-2015, 09:49 PM #60
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Re: OT: Kentucky high school removes gay basketball player from yearbook page
It's not that hard. Look up agoraphobia, acrophobia, claustrophobia, anything. These are psychoses. They have in common an irrational fear of something. They can be treated by a psychiatrist or psychologist. Get it? A doctor can diagnose you with them. Homophobia? The analogy is obvious.
As soon as you are willing to use the word homophobia, the heavy conceptual lifting has been done. It is a mere practical problem to build the Soviet-style mental institutions, or the gulags, or the concentration camps. When you have become willing to use a fake mental diagnosis to categorize your political opponents, you are already nearly there.
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