Goodbye Colorado

[badrose]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...-restrictions/

I saw that this morning, Dan. Hopefully their efforts don't fall on deaf ears.

[CitizenBBN]

THe lawsuit has been joined by NSSF and others. Their reason is the background checks.

The states that have required expanded background checks for private transactions have a huge problem: it's a felony for a dealer to use the background check system for anything other than their own gun sales. The only way to follow Colorado law (and other states like Conn) is for the dealer to "buy" the gun from the seller then "sell" it to the buyer. That means entering the gun into his records and assuming legal responsibility for it and maintaining all the paperwork.

Say he does this, despite the state capping the fee for this pain in the butt process at $10 or $20 (I forget which). He has to "buy" the gun before he can then initiate the "sale", right? So he buys it, then when selling it the guy is denied. Now does the dealer own the gun? Does he "have" to sell it back to the buyer? Did he buy it for $1 and risk the legal uncertainty of so obviously creating a false construct in order to use NICS for a private transfer? If he "bought" it he has to sell it back, does the fee cap apply? Does it apply to the "purchase"? What if the seller then is also denied (trust me, it happens)?

What the NSSF is arguing in that part of the suit is that the dealers will simply refuse to participate, and several dealers are joined as plaintiffs as well. They risk legal exposure with ATF on more than one level, risk of violating the terms of use of the NICS system, and get paid next to nothing for the trouble. If the dealers won't do it in sufficient numbers, you've created a de facto limit on private transactions well beyond keeping guns from those who can't legally own one.

That's one aspect of the case. They're passing laws about "background checks" but the only "background check" system is federal, created and governed by federal law and federal agencies, and they are really picky about who uses it and why.

In simple terms, to comply with their state law you have to violate federal law. They've got the cart way before the horse.

[bigsky]

Time to move to Montana. Sell any firearm legal in the US, made in Montana, in Montana, without any federal regulation whatsoever (not automatic etc).

From Wiki:

The law declares that firearms manufactured in the state of Montana after October 1, 2009, and which remain in the state, are exempt from United States federal firearms regulations, provided that these items are clearly stamped "Made in Montana" on a central metallic part. It applies to all firearms other than fully automatic weapons, firearms that cannot be carried and used by one person, and firearms with a bore diameter greater than 1½ inch which use smokeless powder. It also applies to ammunition (except exploding projectiles), and accessories such as suppressors.^[2]
The law has no requirements for registration, background checks or dealer licensing.

[bigsky]

and no sales tax

[dan_bgblue]

Add New Yawk to the list of Litigating Sheriffs

[dan_bgblue]

Wisconsin may want to join the party

[suncat05]

Anybody want to bet on how Chief Justice Roberts weighs in on this one? A dollar to a doughnut says he betrays the American people again.............j/s.

[CitizenBBN]

PTR Industries, smallish maker (140 employees) who started making clone HK 91s, leaving Connecticut for South Carolina. Myrtle Beach to be exact. I'm not a huge Myrtle Beach guy but it's still nicer weather than Connecticut, I'd have left without the law changes.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...est=latestnews

Won't really make much difference until one of the big boys leave. I expect it to happen, but expect such a big shift to take time.

[suncat05]

I was disappointed in Remington not making a move. But thinking back on it now, I am not sure that Remington was all that serious to begin with.
Why would a company want to stay and try to conduct business in a place where they know they are not valued and their product appreciated? But Remington appears to have made exactly that choice. Doesn't make much sense.

[dan_bgblue]

Another business leaves Colorado over gun laws

[CitizenBBN]

Yep, Magpul continues their exodus. They moved part of it pretty quickly, this is the rest of their facilities.

Hate that Kentucky hasn't gone out and gotten any of these companies. We're so pro gun it's crazy, would be a great location for them on many levels, but we aren't proactive about getting the business.

[dan_bgblue]

Smith and Wesson and Ruger say bye bye to Cali.

[CitizenBBN]

It's the ramp up to the lawsuit. NRA/NSSF and others are suing to stop the microstamping law, a real piece of lunacy if there ever was one. part of the argument will no doubt be that it is backdoor gun control of the type shot down in Chicago by both federal courts and SCOTUS. Having the gun supply dry up supports that view, beyond the fact that the manufacturing process is also just not worth it for them.

[suncat05]

I heard somewhere last night while I was channel surfing(NRA News with Cam Edwards, I think)that both Ruger and S&W will also probably not sell to any law enforcement agencies in California either. Not sure if what he said is correct, but if so it might help put some pressure on the California legislature to rethink this position.

[CitizenBBN]

Suncat that's the $64 question, if they will refuse to sell to government as well. That and if other makers will join the ranks.

[KeithKSR]

Requiring a technology that doesn't work as a practical manufacturing process is a de facto gun ban.

[suncat05]

Requiring a technology that doesn't work as a practical manufacturing process is a de facto gun ban.

Then the resulting reply should be very simple..........American manufacturers shouldn't sell to them. Anything. And since there are lots of taxes and other financial obstacles involved in buying foreign weapons, force them to go that route.
The hell with Commiefornia! Let them suffer their own foolishness! And let California law enforcement suffer as well! When they stop supporting this nonsense maybe something will begain to change. Until then, they can suffer too!

[CitizenBBN]

suncat I've heard rumors that at least one of them will refuse to sell to Cali government as well, as it should be in this narrow case IMO.

Here's why IMO: "microstamping" is justified in the Cali law as a part of determining if a gun is "safe" or not. Well if the gun isn't "safe" enough to sell to a civilian what makes it suddenly safe to sell to LEOs? Sure LEOs in general are trustworthy folks, but as we saw in the Florida theater thing it's not 100%, but moreover those guns get stolen too.

Since their argument is that it doesnt' change gun functionality why wouldn't they require it for LEO purchases if they think it's really improving public safety in Cali? is it b/c those guns will cost more, or is it b/c they know those guns do not and will not exist? IMO the very fact that they exempt LEOs from the requirement screams that the requirement itself is a farce designed to be a defacto gun ban.

FWIW I learned something I didn't knwo about this law: it requires the stamping to happen in TWO places on the casing. From what I can tell it means the firing pin microstamp would be just one of those, and for any existing approved gun in Cali if they change a single part or any new gun they have to devise some crazy way to get it to stamp that casing a second time.

I can't see how ANY revolver could meet such a standard (if having two stamps on the firing pin didn't meet the law) as there is no impact on the casing other than the pin, and no SA slide that I know of hits the round hard enough to do such a thing and I think it would be quite dangerous to have it hit a casing so hard on the rim that it could stamp the brass.

Not to mention that then the slides and firing pins would be non-transferrable. Now only the receiver is the "gun" per the law, this would mean if you needed to change a slide or pin you'd have to send it back and have them make you one with the right microstamp.

it's absurdly unworkable, beyond the fact that it would take a nail file and a few minutes work to make it utterly useless in tracing anything.

If it's such a good idea require it for LEOs,otherwise scrap it IMO. I hate to put Cali LEOs in that spot, it's absurd, but it's on the Cali legislators and anti-gunners, not that they care who dies b/c of their witch hunt.

[CitizenBBN]

FWIW I hope all the makers follow S&W and Ruger, and I bet some if not most do. Once a few more do it will hurt their sales if they don't b/c it will be like crossing a picket line. Any major foreign maker will be just as sensitive to it, and most have as much presence here as they do back in their home country. Glock, HK, Beretta, Sig have all either all but moved here or have heavy ties here, and they all face the same impossible task of meeting the law and seeing this crap passed in other states.

Far better to forgo the sales there for now, civilian and LEO, and press this lawsuit to try to end it in Cali and prevent it from passing elsewhere.

Were I making the case I'd also use the Maryland bullet database as an example. they store all the riflings on all the new guns sold there, and so far they have not solved ONE crime b/c of it based on the data Iv'e seen. What good does it do you to know the guy who it was stolen from? may help you narrow down the neighborhood in some areas, that's about it.

[Catonahottinroof]

Tennessee's gain... I wish Kentucky had pursued them harder.

http://blog.beretta.com/beretta-usa-...y-in-tennessee

[CitizenBBN]

Kentucky has been pitiful at going after this industry despite being one of the most pro gun states in the country. I'd only put Montana and a couple of others in our group and Kentucky has great location for this sort of industry. We needed to be in all the media selling it, I'd have been meeting with every one of these companies as much as they'd let me. Offer the tax breaks, whatever it takes to get them, long term it's a huge winner for us.

[suncat05]

Your current Governor isn't exactly known for being a super business friendly chief executive as it is, plus he's a Democrat, so it's a possibility that he's not a big 2nd Amendment advocate anyway. But yeah, you're right, Kentucky would be a good business climate for any of the firearm industry members.
That's what you get when you elect a weak Governor, or any other chief executive type. Need another example? Look no further than 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington, D.C. and the current occupant.

[CitizenBBN]

No argument from me. We elect a lot of complete fools in this state, it's very "party politics" here, and none of them have any real vision. Martha Lane Collins was probably the best Governor we've had in my lifetime just for getting Toyota here, and she was blistered at the time for giving Toyota so much. She knew in the long run it was a pittance for what the state would get, and she was right. Ask anyone now who was against her then if they want Toyota to leave.

Were I Governor I'd have been living in Maryland, Connecticut and New York, camping out at Beretta, S&W, Ruger, even the NSSF, offering VERY generous terms to get them to Kentucky. It's good basically clean manufacturing work and good paying long term jobs.

[dan_bgblue]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/20/news...html?hpt=hp_t4

[Darrell KSR]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/20/news...html?hpt=hp_t4

I'd like to think it is additional jobs, but I think it is just carrying out the plan they announced in February.

http://www.kysportsreport.com/forums...emington-plant

[dan_bgblue]

After the mid term Colorado election, the incumbent governor may be saying good bye to Colorado

[CitizenBBN]

Would be sweet for us pro gun folks for him to go down. I don't think that's the only or even main reason, it's b/c he's an Obama kiss-ass who doesn't get he's kissing the most unpopular President since Carter, but I'll take it. He definitely doesn't seem to have much sense for how the political winds are blowing. The anti-gun thing cost him, His Obama man crush may take him down.