Anti-gun movement comes to Kentucky

[jazyd]

the sheriff of our county is a very good friend of mine and the 'video' portraying people not being able to do anything correctly isn't about facts of permit holders as police officers have the same problem. He told me about 60% of officers miss on the first shot because of all the things that goes thru their minds at that point, especially being killed. He said many of those forget to take the safety off, and now all his officers have new Glocks that have no safety, their fingers become the safety. So if trained officers miss more often than not on first shot, forget to take the safety off, then how does one silly video prove that most if not all permit holders should be denied or will accidently kill someone. And who produced and paid for that video? I wouldn't be surprised that it was done by an anti gun crowd.

Citizen you have put up some great points. What many can't accept or can't see thru, all this by Obama and his crowd is for show to get the base wired up, so that in the end they can outlaw as many guns as possible, make it as hard as possible to purchase any firearm, raise the price of ammo so the average person can no longer buy it so therefore the gun is useless, register every gun owner for whatever purpose they need and want but also to appease their anti hunting crowd to limit or take away totally my ability and right to hunt. And I can tell you this for fact because of things that have happened in schools in years past, if they can get hunting all but outlawed, fishing is next. When teachers begin to tell 5 and 6 yr olds how the poor fishes mouth is hurt when a hook is put in it, you know what they are after. Teach at a young age how horrible it is to fish, how much pain that poor little fish goes thru. When I was still in the sporting goods industry, I had friends in Michigan whose children were being taught this very thing. Don't laugh at it, the anti crowd that is the 'as we called them..acorn eaters' wants this.

If we limit who can buy, when we can buy, how much we can buy, make it too expensive to buy, make us register our names before we can buy, know everything about us, limit our clip size, even make individuals who sell to a friend jump thru hoops to make the sale, the only ones affected are law abiding citizens, not criminals, and not the mentally ill. And if they get away with it, it will show future administrations who are just like Obamas that they can finally have total control over the citizens of this country and there would be nothing we could do to fight back because we would have been stripped of our weapons to defend ourselves not just against criminals in the streets but the criminals in DC

Chuck we allow politicians to get away with their nonsense because not enough people actually spend time finding the facts like you have, they just take what ever the media says Obama and his like say as gospel. Benghazi is a prime example, nothing has been said in the media outside of Fox News so therefore no one cares because they dont' think it was a big deal. Unfortunately 90% of the media won't allow someone like yourself to represend the facts, proven facts, not just something some liberal group puts together to distort the true facts. all one has to do is listen to what people say and it is just repeating the talking points of the democrat crowd when it comes to gun control or whatever is happening at the time.

So many will google the latest trend in clothes or where a particular restaurant is, or where they can get their nails done or who is going to win the Oscars but they won't spend 5 minutes googling the truth about guns and crime. I would be willing to bet less than 25% of the people of this country knew that Chicago had a tad over 500 murders in their city, has some of the strongest gun laws in the country nad had more children killed than what was killed in Sandy Hook. The media won't talk about that at all, might make some people look bad. Same people probably think there were several thousand killed in Afghanistan and ten or twelve in Chicago.

As you know Kentucky does require some, but it's not much. I think the section on grip helps some people who are very handgun inexperienced. The law section is really the class, but it helps on safety too b/c people know when they may be justified and when they're going to prison.

I've probably instructed 80 or so people in the ccdw class and I've only had one person shoot what I'd call bad, and most drill the bowling pin or center mass without much if any effort. That includes a dozen who have never shot a handgun before. None have shown a reckless attitude about safety. I've had to correct a few things, but none of it was major. They're doing this to protect themselves and others, not to feel powerful or play Rambo.

No doubt there are going to be some accidents, but there are also a lot of lives saved and rapes prevented. It's a huge net gain.

I'm glad Kentucky has the class. Even the basic marksmanship helps some, but the section explaining when you are being negligent and when you have the law on your side clarifies a lot of things for people. Answers a lot of questions and helps encourage responsibility.

[KeithKSR]

And I think that's too far.

Parents don't think it is too far, none have complained and we have been doing this for a decade district wide. Your assertions of a police state are downright stupid. We have had School Resource Officers for at least 15 years. We have had video cameras for as long as I have worked at my current school, 12 years.

BTW, there have been several mall shooting stopped by armed mall security officers. Most of the malls I have been in have armed security officers.

A police state is one in which one of the first acts is to pass massive gun control laws, which lead to confiscation. You advocate actions that would make us a police state, yet rail against things that are proven to add safety to schools and malls.

[KeithKSR]

Malls, theaters, and Wal-Marts in Kentucky do not have armed security. And if you take down "gun free zones," all you end up with is a crowd full of people with guns that don't know how to use them and are as likely to shoot themselves or an innocent person as they are to shoot the bad guy. Don't buy it. More guns isn't the answer.

What? I have seen armed security guards at all of those venues around the state.

As far as your statement, it shows the kind of slant one can only find at extreme leftist anti-gun sites around the web, or picked up from ant-gun socialist types anywhere. This has been proven to be a false premise time and again.

[KeithKSR]

Here is the latest on the proposed gun laws from the Justice Department. They conclude that the proposed laws will have no impact, or little impact violence.

http://www.nraila.org/media/10883516...olicy-memo.pdf

Some of the conclusions:

"an assault weapon ban is unlikely to have an impact on gun violence"

The 1994 ban on large capacity magazines had limited effectiveness

A perfect universal background check system can address the gun shows and might deter many unregulated private sellers. However, this does not address the largest sources (straw purchasers and theft), which would most likely become larger if background checks at gun shows and private sellers were addressed.

The proposals are liberal window dressing with no root in reality.

[KeithKSR]

[QUOTE=BigBlueBrock;55863]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...e-killed-guns/[/QUOTE

You do realize that is posted purely for political purposes as an attempt to persuade the exceedingly gullible don't you?

Here is what IS included in that statistic"

All firearm related accidents
All instances of where suicide using a firearm are completed
Criminals killed by police
Gang banger shootouts
Hunting accidents, including those where the wounds are accidentally self inflicted, or those where a firearm did not cause death
The Kent State massacre
Criminals killing criminals
Criminals killing unarmed citizens
Homeowners killing intruders
Members in the armed forces killed in training maneuvers on US soil

I can go on and on about all the things lumped in to come up with those gun related "incidents,"

Here is the truth behind the numbers, from the same Justice Department white paper linked above:

"On average there are about 11,000 firearm homicides every year. While there are deaths resulting from accidental discharges and suicides, this document will focus on intentional firearm homicides. Fatalities from mass shootings (those with 4 or more victims in a particular place and time) account on average for 35 fatalities per year."

If there are 11,000 firearm homicides each year on average, then the graph you are showing is an extreme misrepresentation. That means that there are 800,000 to 900,000 "incidents" that were not homicides.

[KeithKSR]

BTW, one set of gun laws often desired for the U.S. to mirror are those of Australia, where they had a massive gun buy back and some extreme laws on all manner of firearms. The Justice Department white paper reports the extreme Australian firearms law, "appears to have had no effect on gun homicide."

[KeithKSR]

...we allow politicians to get away with their nonsense because not enough people actually spend time finding the facts...

That pretty much goes for all the issues, not just gun issues.

[dan_bgblue]

Olympic Arms and New York State


New York Gov. Cuomo last month signed into law tough legislation aimed at strengthening state laws on assault weapons, gun-magazine capacity and reporting potential harmful behavior. Though the law allows law enforcement agencies to purchase assault-style weapons, Olympic says it will no longer serve the state's first responders.

"It didn't make sense that citizens can't have what police departments have," Brian Schuetz, Olympic's president and co-owner, told the Times Union.

[dan_bgblue]

Mapgul Industries and Colorado


A package of gun control measures that won initial approval in Colorado's Democratic-controlled House Friday night could result in several hundred jobs lost at the state's largest manufacturer of high-capacity ammunition magazines.

Erie-based Magpul Industries has threatened to leave the state if lawmakers are successful in passing the sweeping gun-control package, which limits the number of rounds a magazine can hold, according to The Denver Post.

"If we're able to stay in Colorado and manufacture a product, but law-abiding citizens of the state were unable to purchase the product, customers around the state and the nation would boycott us for remaining here," Doug Smith, Magpul's chief operating officer, told The Post.

[CitizenBBN]

Magpul will pull out completely if it passes, I have no doubt. He's right, they will not only have their own objections and motives but it would hurt sales if they didn't. The gun community is not kind to those it sees as breaking ranks, esp. now with us under siege. It wouldn't break them, but they'll also increase sales by moving and being seen as standing up to this nonsense, so the total difference in sales is more than enough to justify it.

Kentucky would be wise to be courting every one of these manufacturers in these states. They won't, b/c we're dumber than rocks, but those are good jobs for a state that has a strong gun owning tradition. We could have a very good manufacturing niche of pretty clean manufacturing but we're too dumb to do it.

[Catonahottinroof]

Kentucky is courting is courting Remington to leave NY State.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_16...s-in-one-town/

[badrose]

Money talks.

[jazyd]

Good

Kentucky is courting is courting Remington to leave NY State.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_16...s-in-one-town/

[CitizenBBN]

Kentucky is courting is courting Remington to leave NY State.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_16...s-in-one-town/

Awesome. Give these makers anything they want b/c long term it will be like Toyota for us. Martha Layne is probably the best Governor in my lifetime b/c of that deal and she was roasted for it as giving away too much. Anyone think it's a bad deal now, wants Toyota to leave?

Imagine the global attention of having Kentucky the new home of arms making. Connecticut was attached to that trade for more than a century.

The only note though is politically it may be best for the arms industry as a whole to have sway in more politically powerful states with more House votes and thus more Congressmen with pro-gun constituencies. They wouldn't find a warmer reception though than in the South.

[KeithKSR]

I'd like to see Kentucky push for a law preventing federal restrictions from being implemented.

[dan_bgblue]

I'd like to see Kentucky push for a law preventing federal restrictions from being implemented.

Join in Kentucky

[dan_bgblue]

Texas and Mississipi

[dan_bgblue]

Mapgul

[CitizenBBN]

Democrats have tried to ease Magpul's fears, amending the bill to make clear that the company can still manufacture magazines of any size, as long as they're sold only out-of-state, to the military or law enforcement.


This shows how little they understand. Magpul isn't afraid it would ban them from making them. They simply refuse to pay taxes in a state where their products aren't legal. He's (Fitzpatrick) never once said it would keep him from making anything, just that he refuses to be in the state if they pass these laws.

[CitizenBBN]

Supporters of the proposals say Magpul is bluffing and that a move would prove too costly.

"I don't think Magpul is about to pull out," said Bill Hoover, 83, whose grandson AJ Boik was among the 12 killed in the theater shooting. "It's going to cost them a bundle of money."

Fitzpatrick said his company is serious.

"It's not really a threat. It's a promise," he said.




Another person who doesn't get it. First off Fitzpatrick won't care. Most ex-marine hard core individualists don't flinch at that kind of thing when he's already got plenty of money, but it misses the economic point completely.

First, other states (sure wish Kentucky would go after them with everything we have) will happily help offset those moving costs. Most important, as Fitzpatrick has said, NOT moving will hurt his business b/c gun people will pressure him to move, and actually doing the move in response will generate HUGE loyalty in the gun community.

All different kinds of people own guns, but one very pervasive trait is a strong sense of loyalty to companies beyond the dollars. Few market segments have as much "buy American" emphasis where people routinely spend more just b/c it's US made, and I'm not sure any has the sense of "with us or against us" gun buyers have with companies. S&W was ravaged when they cut a deal with the Clinton administration to put gun safety locks on their guns, even to avoid the DOJ coming after them. Had they resisted buyers would have bought S&Ws just to support the company's fight. Heck they would have gotten donations.

Fitzpatrick isn't stupid. If Magpul pulls out of Colorado he will not only be standing up for a principle in which he believes, that he's not making evil products to be banned, but he'll actually make money doing it. Between other states giving him tax breaks, avoiding sales losses by staying and the increased sales he'll see by standing up to this BS, he's going to end up in a win/win if they pass this and he leaves.

Besides, no matter what may have happened prior, now that he's said to the entire gun industry he'll leave he has to or he really will get hit by buyers. He doesn' thave a decision to make if it passes, he's already made it with the announcement of what he'd do. No going back on it, and he knows it.

I can't root for nonsensical gun laws to pass, but if they do I admit it will be fun to watch Magpul follow through. Don't think it won't have an effect on the Connecticut legislature either with Mossberg and others rattling those same sabers.

[CitizenBBN]

Speaking of Magpul, yesterday they suspended sales to LE in ban states pending a new policy where officers will agree to support the Constitution's 2nd and 14th Amendments for items purchased for duty carry.

http://twg2a.wordpress.com/2013/03/0...rights-states/

Think the Colorado move may have him hacked off?

Worth a read, b/c he talks about being torn on how to handle this b/c of his desire to support LEOs but also that some of those LEOs are calling for bans like in New York. No easy answers.

[KeithKSR]

Speaking of Magpul, yesterday they suspended sales to LE in ban states pending a new policy where officers will agree to support the Constitution's 2nd and 14th Amendments for items purchased for duty carry.

http://twg2a.wordpress.com/2013/03/0...rights-states/

Think the Colorado move may have him hacked off?

Worth a read, b/c he talks about being torn on how to handle this b/c of his desire to support LEOs but also that some of those LEOs are calling for bans like in New York. No easy answers.

Gotta respect Fitzpatrick, he is making a stand of loyalty to the 2nd Amendment, despite losing some near term sales.

[dan_bgblue]

Colorado

[KeithKSR]

The louder the Dems squeal about gun control the fewer of them there will be elected in 2014 at the federal level.

[CitizenBBN]

Colorado Senate has passed the magazine ban. Magpul, come on down!

He's gone, and I can't wait till those who thought he was bluffing see him wave goodbye.

[dan_bgblue]

Colorado Sheriff Opinions

[suncat05]

So let's deal with the good Governor and his Democratic lackeys in Colorado in our own special little way.........BOYCOTT ANYTHING COLORADO.........DO NOT PUT ONE RED CENT INTO THE STATE'S TREASURY..........if there's any way you can avoid doing business with anyone in Colorado, then do it. Hurt their wallets.

[KeithKSR]

I was listening to a radio interview about a week ago, it was asked by the interviewer what happened to Colorado to pass such radical legislation, given the state's pro-2nd Amendment history. The individual being interviewed responded that liberals had ruined their states and moved to Colorado, and brought with them their liberal views.

The influx of liberals now give the Dems a majority in both houses, and leave the state with a Dem governor.

[suncat05]

It's kinda like a plague of locusts, isn't it?

[CitizenBBN]

I was listening to a radio interview about a week ago, it was asked by the interviewer what happened to Colorado to pass such radical legislation, given the state's pro-2nd Amendment history. The individual being interviewed responded that liberals had ruined their states and moved to Colorado, and brought with them their liberal views.

The influx of liberals now give the Dems a majority in both houses, and leave the state with a Dem governor.

Colorado has been overrun by the California Left. been going on for decades and now they have a majority. Knew some folks from Aspen in the 80s who were lamenting the invasion way back then.