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Thread: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
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09-09-2021, 02:09 PM #31
Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
FWIW, this kind of anecdotal approach is dangerous at best, and grossly misleading at worst.
I know a guy who dropped dead jogging. Does that mean jogging is unhealthy? Well it sure was for him. We all know of athletes who drop dead while playing sports, often finding an underlying condition they didn't know existed, like an enlarged heart.
It's a given that some will have bad reactions to any vaccine, and that has been going on since the first vaccines. The statistical truth is that it's such a small number of people compared to the benefit that it's still a good decision.
People die while in surgery a lot too. Does that mean you don't go get a needed surgery and hope that the clot doesn't move or that the condition just improves? No, you weigh the risks of the procedure against the risk of doing nothing.
Do that in this case and it's pretty clear what people need to do. A very small risk of adverse reactions from the vaccine compared to a much greater chance of long term damage or death from Covid. Mathematically this is a no-brainer.People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
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09-09-2021, 02:17 PM #32
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Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
OK, there is a lot to unpack here and discuss (some of it technical) but I will do my best. Antibodies are actually my exact field, just on the diagnostics side of things rather than therapeutic. Because of this, apologies if I get to deep.
First off, most of the infusions that people are talking about are not convalescent plasma, they are monoclonal antibody infusions produced by a few different companies (Regeneron, Eli Lilly, etc.). When administered early on, these infusions can reduce the risk of hospitalization by up to 70% (which is incredible). The key point is if administered early on; if not, they rapidly become less and less effective.
Getting into the technical details:
Monoclonal means the antibodies are a single type (clone) which is specific for a single binding site (called an epitope) on the target substance (called an antigen). Our body seldom produces monoclonal antibodies, rather producing multiple clones (called a polyclonal) against the antigen all targeting different epitopes. The reason for this is two fold 1)pathogens can evolve the epitope to evade a single clone and 2)it would leave us with zero immune benefit against related pathogens. As for why companies produce monoclonals, the benefits are both efficacy and manufacturing related: you can isolate the cells that produce the antibody clones, screen these cells for the ones producing the MOST effective and easy to manufacture clone, grow them in tissue culture, and purify out the monoclonal antibodies. The downside is that the more specific (read effective) the antibody is the more likely it is that the virus can evolve to evade it (which is what is meant when they say some variants have shown sides of evading monoclonal antibodies).
My attempt at an analogy:
A vaccine teaches the general guard(your immune system) on how to spot/prevent the infection from occurring in the first place. While they still uses bullets (antibodies) as their main defense, for the reasons mentioned above, they use a bunch of different types of bullets (polyclonal antibodies) against the antigen (the spike protein). Furthermore, the vaccine teaches the guard how to utilize other lines of defense (cellular-based defenses), to counter the invading viruses. This diverse defense response ensures that in all but the most extreme circumstances, it will successfully block the invasive virus (and its relatives) from being able to establish an active infection.
Monoclonals are used when a virus overwhelms the general guard. Think of them link hyper-specific sniper bullets targeting a precise part of a specific virus to prevent it form binding to our cells. If given early on in an infection, you can flood the body with these sniper bullets, binding almost all of the free floating virus particles. This allows the general guard to come in and do what it does best and mop up the rest. The issues are: 1) if the infection has gone on too long, the virus becomes so well-spread throughout the body that you just can't flood the body with enough bullets to fight off the infection and 2) over time, the virus can evolve so that the bullets against that target no longer work.
So in the end, the vaccine and antibody infusion, while both involving antibodies perform two related but distinctly different functions.
We have extremely detailed data from MILLIONS of doses thanks to the VSafe system and various healthcare systems around the world (far better data than any previous vaccine/medicine and we have it in almost real-time). This data DOES NOT support your conclusion in any way.
With respect to Bell's Palsy, for every 100,000 vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine, we would expect 2 additional cases of Bell's Palsy compared to the general population. In the general population, the rate of Bell's Palsy is around 15-35 per 100,000 per year. Bell's Palsy typically self resolves within a few months without treatment.
With respect to clots/strokes/etc. the risk of suffering from these after contracting COVID (which the Delta variant has made a question of when rather than if) is far higher than the risk post-vaccination:
- Clotting issues occur at rate around NINE TIMES higher rate after contracting the virus than post-vaccination
- Strokes occur at almost an ELEVEN TIMES higher rate after contracting the virus than post-vaccination
- Heart issues like myocarditis occur at an almost SIX TIMES higher rate for young males after contracting the virus than post-vaccination. This focus on young males is because they are the MOST likely to encounter myocarditis post-vaccination. For other populations, the difference is even larger.
This ignores EVERYTHING else that contracting the SARS-CoV-2 virus can damage (taste/smell, nerve issues, etc.). So far, we have extremely detailed analysis on pretty much every single adverse reaction possible. The vaccine is by far the safer choice in pretty much every scenario.Last edited by PedroDaGr8; 09-09-2021 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Updated to better clarify the difference between a vaccine and monoclonals
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09-09-2021, 03:12 PM #33
Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
Very informative Pedro, thanks. And I loved the analogy.
changing my signature to change our luck.
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09-09-2021, 04:53 PM #34
OT: Matt Jones with Covid
Update:
Daughter feels a lot better, but baby woke up with a fever and tested positive this morning. 10 year old still in good shape, but was supposed to start school today, now he has to wait 10 days. 13 yo is vaccinated and was allowed to start school today as scheduled.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk"I have touched all the so-called capitals of basketball, but when it gets down to the short stroke, the only true capital of basketball is in Lexington." AL McGuire
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09-09-2021, 06:58 PM #35
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Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
Thanks, Pedro. Great information. Sorry to hear about your family blueboss (especially the youngsters).
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09-10-2021, 08:40 AM #36
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Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
Pedro, are you seeing data that indicates which of the three vaccines is the best option?
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09-10-2021, 10:34 AM #37
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09-10-2021, 02:47 PM #38
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Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
Thanks Pedro.
Real Fan since 1958
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09-10-2021, 04:23 PM #39
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09-10-2021, 07:35 PM #40
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09-11-2021, 01:32 PM #41
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09-11-2021, 01:41 PM #42
Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
I certainly defer to Pedro on this, but I have read where one should continue with the vaccine they have already taken.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
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09-11-2021, 06:02 PM #43
Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
I couldnt make an antibody if I got a shot every day. Infusions are of interest, therefore.
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09-11-2021, 10:19 PM #44
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09-11-2021, 10:20 PM #45
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09-12-2021, 09:40 AM #46
Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
Going to ask that.
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09-13-2021, 04:56 PM #47
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Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
My response was based upon the data we have, rather than what the FDA/CDC may approve/allow. Most likely, the boosters (if they are given at all to <60) will be of the same type as you had before. The one exception MIGHT be J&J where they may allow individuals to get an mRNA vaccine.
Unfortunately, these do not make a good prophylactics other than in cases of known exposure. The half-lives of the monoclonals are pretty short (somewhere between five days and three weeks) meaning the body will rapidly clear them before they can be effective. You would need to be dosed once every week or two to ensure that you have sufficient anti-COVID IgG available to prevent infection.
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09-13-2021, 06:29 PM #48
Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
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12-16-2021, 08:05 PM #49
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12-16-2021, 08:35 PM #50
Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
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12-20-2021, 03:00 PM #51
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Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
I think part of the issue with the perception of the vaccine is that they really do not prevent you from becoming infected. I know that is the aim, but is is not true. If it was, we would not have so many breakthrough cases and most of sports would not be having athletes in covid protocols. So the argument on prevention is past and cannot stand up with current vaccines.
What they are now saying is that they believe they reduce the symptoms. Hard to prove a negative but I think last data showed much less hospitalizations of the vaccinated vs. the unvaccinated. not sure on deaths but it would stand to reason that would be true too.
As a fomer Breakthrough person (J&J taken on August 9, 2021, 1st symptoms on We. October 6. I never had chest congestion, maybe a little heaviness after other symptoms (and still some today). Mine was slight fever, body aches (bad) and headache (continued for over a month). I was pretty much useless for about 7 days. Tired for 2 weeks afterwards.
I have hopes for the monoclonal and the pill from Pfizer. The Vaccines will never be universally accepted.
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12-24-2021, 11:12 AM #52
Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
I don’t mind arguing with KY fans. I don’t mind arguing with dukies. But reading a cynical dukie bash and mock KY fans on whom he makes his living, well, that is not in my dna. I do not wish him ill, but I have no desire to contribute to the legend in his mind.
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12-25-2021, 06:38 PM #53
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
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12-25-2021, 07:42 PM #54
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12-25-2021, 11:52 PM #55
Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
He's nothing if not a legend in his own mind. Boy does that nail it.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
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01-06-2022, 11:14 AM #56
Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
You should fit right in as with the flying back and fourth you can vote in 2 states and if you play your cards right you may be ale to vote multiple times in each state. You will also have a Florida neighbor that can give you some tips.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/fourth-fl...of-voter-fraudseeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
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01-06-2022, 12:45 PM #57
Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
^Yep, in spite of the eastern Kentucky admonition to "vote early and vote often," I'll stick with one vote at a time.
U really think players are going to duke without being paid over Kentucky?--Gilbert Arenas, 9/12/19
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01-06-2022, 06:57 PM #58
Re: OT: Matt Jones with Covid
I'll stick with one vote at a time.seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
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