Donald Trump committing voter fraud?

[ukpumacat]

https://publicintegrity.org/politics...-swing-states/

This is....interesting.

[ukpumacat]

And this...pressuring Republican canvassers in Michigan not to certify the vote.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden...095855e7af7031

[ukpumacat]

I'm just going to say this, because its been driving me crazy.

But, the levels that Donald Trump has gone to that we all just allow and expect are not only unprecedented, but are just flat wrong. And we are all so numb to his antics, and dismiss his twitter as "just words and not actions" that we can't see the forrest from the trees.

The fact that he won't concede is insanity. Yes, it was predictable. Yes, we all know it matches his personality. He's an elitist. He's a narcissist. And he's admitted in interviews he's the worst kind of loser.
He warned us all this was coming. Not just on voter fraud. He refused to answer in 2016 when they asked if he would concede if he lost to Hillary. He refused to answer in multiple debates this year if there would be a peaceful transition of power.

But just because we expect it and just because people dismiss it doesn't make it any less striking.

The acting President of the United States is refusing to admit he lost an election that he very clearly lost by millions of votes in multiple states. And beyond that, he is actively spreading disinformation, filing frivolous lawsuits that are being tossed out of court one after another and has yet to produce one iota of evidence of voter fraud.

Look, if some of you guys want to stay on this, "but there is voter fraud and we should fix it" line of thinking....fine. Do it NOT when Trump lost. Do it in 2016. Do it the 4 years he's President. I am ALL for that. Where there are problems, let's fix them.

But, refusing to acknowledge the VERY clear will of the people is anti-democracy, autocratic and fascist. Pressuring voting boards to refuse to certify the results of an election is just plain wrong. Tweeting lie after lie to your millions of followers is wrong. His words do matter. Because his words lead to actions. And these actions are incredibly harmful.

We are about to enter the darkest weeks of this pandemic yet. And instead of leading us through it, he's obsessed with trying to overthrow an election that he lost. Some of you have called him boorish and a bully. But this is far beyond that. This is outright democratic sabotage. And us all acknowledging that there are things in the voting process that need to be fixed is not mutually exclusive to saying that his behavior is wrong and frankly, scary.

And people just justify and excuse it all. But the Democrats did this. Russia! The Media! Are we not capable of just talking about the actions of the President of the United States without justifying them based on other people's actions (even if wrong)? He's the President (for 2 more months). No one else is.

Ben Sasse has a backbone. And he called Trump exactly what we all see. When will some of the other Republican leaders stand up and say, "enough is enough. The people voted. We will respect their vote."? They all know this election will not change. We all know this election will not change. And yet, people just act like his behavior is just "Trump being Trump".
This is dangerous. Its not bringing "light to election issues". Its doing the complete opposite. Its ensuring they will never get fixed because he's now cemented them as completely partisan.

If you actually care about making sure there is no election fraud...this needs to stop. This is the opposite of fixing it. Everyone (the world, world leaders, most of America) except for his most ardent supporters see this as exactly what it is: a man who has never cared more about the country than he has himself...and is showing it in spades in his final days.

To quote his acting attorney (before she was working for him): "I could spend a full-time job just responding to the ridiculously illogical, inconsistent, and blatantly stupid arguments supporting Trump. But here's the thing: his supporters DON'T CARE about facts or logic. They aren't seeking truth. Trump probably could shoot someone in the middle of NYC and not lose support. And this is the cumulative reason why this nation is in such terrible shape: We don't have truth seekers; we have narcissists."

[dan_bgblue]

https://www.nysun.com/national/trump...-coming/91339/

[ukpumacat]

From that article:
"As it stands now, fewer than 40,000 votes switched from the Democratic nominee Joe Biden to Donald Trump in Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Arizona would give Mr. Trump the election 279 electoral votes to Mr. Biden’s 259."

This is just factually not true.

Biden's lead in:

PA - 82,357
AZ - 10, 457
GA - 14,007

Total = 106,821

[Catfan73]

It’s dangerous to the health of the country because we only have two parties and he has half of one of them thinking the only way they can lose an election is thru voter fraud. Democracy depends on each party admitting the other is legitimate and each must respect our elections as legitimate. He’s a petulant, narcissistic egomaniac that cares nothing about this country or anyone else.

[kingcat]

I’ve typed and deleted several times. Suffice it to say (as the other side repeatedly likes to lament over anything ) I am becoming sadly disappointed in a huge segment of the population. Shocked really.
Still, Gods will de done.

[Doc]

I find it rich that the left is all up in arms because Trump won't conceded yet. Why, is it making a smooth transition more difficult? I would have sympathy except for Obama's actions when Hillary lost. His response was to spy on Trump and haves his administration set up a sting operation on his staff. I find it rich because Hillary stated Joe should under no circumstance concede (apparently she thought he would lose too). I find it rich that Trump is spreading lies and disinformation after 4 years of democrats lying and spreading disinformation. Its rich because the left, including the speaker of the house, repeatedly refer to Trump as an illegitimate president for the last 4 years.

Now we are worried about the health of the country. Really? after 6 months of supporting violence and rioting to get their way, now its about the health of the country? Maybe Trump should actually encourage peaceful protests (wink wink), where Biden supporters are seeked out and physically assaulted. Trump has no obligation to concede. It is HIS choice.

[ukpumacat]

Trump has no obligation to concede. It is HIS choice.

The issue isn't him conceding.

The issue is him trying to overturn the will of the American people. The issue is that he has Rudy G filing frivolous lawsuits all over the country trying to delay certifications (and getting thrown out of court in every one). The issue is him calling county board members to pressure them to not certify the election. The issue is him tweeting complete and total lies to millions of people that believe his every word.

If he wants to not concede and play a spoiled sport...fine...its his choice. But as the President of the United States during the worst pandemic in 100 years....lead?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...icated/617139/

[ukpumacat]

I'm watching the Rudy G side show. And besides quoting from "My Cousin Vinny" and figuring out that if you throw out the votes of all the big cities, Trump would win....I can't stop staring at his hair dye running down the side of his face.

[ukpumacat]

I'm watching the Rudy G side show. And besides quoting from "My Cousin Vinny" and figuring out that if you throw out the votes of all the big cities, Trump would win....I can't stop staring at his hair dye running down the side of his face.

I joke about this. But the lies they are spewing at this press conference is just outrageous. And its so so dangerous.

[CitizenBBN]

It’s dangerous to the health of the country because we only have two parties and he has half of one of them thinking the only way they can lose an election is thru voter fraud. Democracy depends on each party admitting the other is legitimate and each must respect our elections as legitimate. He’s a petulant, narcissistic egomaniac that cares nothing about this country or anyone else.

So when should we await the announcement from the Democrats that, after a complete fabrication of Russian collusion, Trump's election was in fact completely legitimate and they are officially apologizing for people like Adam Schiff falsely claiming to have evidence of wrongdoing?

Half of this country is convinced Trump won through some nefarious means, and the Democrats spent 4 years beating the message home. Now you're surprised people on the other side may think the same thing?

Everything you posted could be applied to the last 4 years we've endured, which has also endangered the health of the country.

One of the things Trump's base is right about: they like him b/c he's the first guy on the other side of the aisle who will play just as dirty as the Left. When they put this country through hell for 4 years never worrying about the bigger whole it was all OK, but when Trump does it we have to rise up to stop him.

Sure he's a petulant, narcissistic egomaniac. So is Governor Newsome, so is Pelosi, so is Schumer, so is Cuomo, and NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE is a bigger egomaniac than Hillary Clinton.

We're up to our eyeballs in them. The only difference with Trump is that he's for the other side, and he's really really good at trolling.

I don't like the guy, I'm not defending him. I want him to get off the stage and let the Republican party re-focus around a Libertarian agenda without him in the way.

But I can't help to comment on the hypocrisy of letting the Democrats and their media henchmen run rampant in ways I've never seen in my lifetime without any outrage, and then somehow Trump is to blame completely once again for "undermining democracy".

I hear that all the time. I can assure anyone who is concerned that this is pretty much what democracy has looked like from the outset, and at times it's been far worse. I can also offer the perspective that, like most bad relationships, both sides are quite guilty of putting themselves first and the nation second.

Trump doing what he is doing is absolutely no more damaging than the Russian hoax, or the FBI destroying their credibility with political actions, or current boasts by people who already voted that they will move to Georgia to vote again.

Politics is ugly. Trump is so enraging b/c he's as comfortable in the mud as anyone on the other side, ginning up emotions and making absurd claims.

I dont' care for any of it, but I find it interesting that when the shoe is on the other foot we're supposed to ignore everything else that everyone else has done to get us here and solely talk about what must be done to stop Trump.

[ukpumacat]

And people just justify and excuse it all. But the Democrats did this. Russia! The Media! Are we not capable of just talking about the actions of the President of the United States without justifying them based on other people's actions (even if wrong)? He's the President (for 2 more months). No one else is.

Sounds like this is a no.

[Catfan73]

So when should we await the announcement from the Democrats that, after a complete fabrication of Russian collusion, Trump's election was in fact completely legitimate and they are officially apologizing for people like Adam Schiff falsely claiming to have evidence of wrongdoing?

Half of this country is convinced Trump won through some nefarious means, and the Democrats spent 4 years beating the message home. Now you're surprised people on the other side may think the same thing?

Everything you posted could be applied to the last 4 years we've endured, which has also endangered the health of the country.

One of the things Trump's base is right about: they like him b/c he's the first guy on the other side of the aisle who will play just as dirty as the Left. When they put this country through hell for 4 years never worrying about the bigger whole it was all OK, but when Trump does it we have to rise up to stop him.

Sure he's a petulant, narcissistic egomaniac. So is Governor Newsome, so is Pelosi, so is Schumer, so is Cuomo, and NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE is a bigger egomaniac than Hillary Clinton.

We're up to our eyeballs in them. The only difference with Trump is that he's for the other side, and he's really really good at trolling.

I don't like the guy, I'm not defending him. I want him to get off the stage and let the Republican party re-focus around a Libertarian agenda without him in the way.

But I can't help to comment on the hypocrisy of letting the Democrats and their media henchmen run rampant in ways I've never seen in my lifetime without any outrage, and then somehow Trump is to blame completely once again for "undermining democracy".

I hear that all the time. I can assure anyone who is concerned that this is pretty much what democracy has looked like from the outset, and at times it's been far worse. I can also offer the perspective that, like most bad relationships, both sides are quite guilty of putting themselves first and the nation second.

Trump doing what he is doing is absolutely no more damaging than the Russian hoax, or the FBI destroying their credibility with political actions, or current boasts by people who already voted that they will move to Georgia to vote again.

Politics is ugly. Trump is so enraging b/c he's as comfortable in the mud as anyone on the other side, ginning up emotions and making absurd claims.

I dont' care for any of it, but I find it interesting that when the shoe is on the other foot we're supposed to ignore everything else that everyone else has done to get us here and solely talk about what must be done to stop Trump.

I don’t really remember the Democrats trying to overturn the 2016 election outcome, in fact Hillary conceded within 24 hours iirc. But it is pretty well undisputed that Russia DID interfere in that election and unless we want Putin (or Xi Jinping or Kim Jong un or whoever) picking our leaders we need to fix that.

[CitizenBBN]

Puma, yes that's a no.

I'm more than capable of talking about "just Trump", but I think people also need some perspective.

Why? so we can stop acting like everything he does is the end of the world, a "threat to democracy", etc. that's all hyperbole.

The truth is this is democracy in action. It's ugly, b/c politics is ugly. Yes he's the POTUS, it would be nice if he would rise above it, but the Speaker of the House didn't, the Minority Leader didn't, the past Secretary of State sure didn't, so I'm not exactly surprised.

Trump is doing to Biden EXACTLY, no more no less, what the Left did to him. Trump is trying to make Biden appear illegitimate, and rally his base to resist. Sound familiar?

Should he stop and offer to hold hands?

Honestly, probably not, at least not politically. Why? for the same reason unilateral disarmament in the 1980s was a bad idea with Russia.

Clearly, taking these actions works. It works to demonize your opponent, in politics, in war, etc. It worked to rally people to defeat Trump, making increasingly unstable and wild claims about him.

He's just doing the same thing that was done to him. While I wish all of this wound end, I'm far from surprised.

Personally I've been consistent. I was outraged over Democrats pulling out all the stops, and I have never supported Trump and would like him to move on b/c he's a petulant child. But far too many people are holding him to a double standard. It's OK for the Democrats to undermine our institutions from the last election to the FBI to now SCOTUS, but when Trump does it OMG it's the end of the world.

Discussing just Trump is just a way to once again put all the blame on him, when he's really not the only person in this ugly relationship.

[CitizenBBN]

I don’t really remember the Democrats trying to overturn the 2016 election outcome, in fact Hillary conceded within 24 hours iirc. But it is pretty well undisputed that Russia DID interfere in that election and unless we want Putin (or Xi Jinping or Kim Jong un or whoever) picking our leaders we need to fix that.

They didn't overturn it with votes, they overturned it with the Russia collusion hoax.

Yes Russia ran facebook bots. So does China, so does Iran. I'm all for fixing it, but the claim and the Mueller investigation wasn't about just that, it was an effort to tie Trump directly to it to undermine his election. What impact they really have however is very debatable.

The night Trump won the Democrats called not for unity but for the #Resistance. Burn the bridges and the crops, fight to the bitter end.

Oh, and Hillary has said she regrets conceding, and told Biden not to if in the same situation.

[Darryl]

I don’t really remember the Democrats trying to overturn the 2016 election outcome, in fact Hillary conceded within 24 hours iirc. But it is pretty well undisputed that Russia DID interfere in that election and unless we want Putin (or Xi Jinping or Kim Jong un or whoever) picking our leaders we need to fix that.

Is this a serious post?

Darryl

[VirginiaCat]

This is where you and those of your beliefs and sides are deluded.

I believe that if Trump and this team DOES NOT force investigation and find the fraud that the will of the American People has not been followed.

IF votes were dumped or manipulated by software, those are false votes and means my vote has been disenfranchised. IF votes are allowed with out proper signature verification, my vote has been disenfranchised.

So, it is YOU who are not wanting to ensure the will of the people.

The issue isn't him conceding.

The issue is him trying to overturn the will of the American people. The issue is that he has Rudy G filing frivolous lawsuits all over the country trying to delay certifications (and getting thrown out of court in every one). The issue is him calling county board members to pressure them to not certify the election. The issue is him tweeting complete and total lies to millions of people that believe his every word.

If he wants to not concede and play a spoiled sport...fine...its his choice. But as the President of the United States during the worst pandemic in 100 years....lead?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...icated/617139/

[ukpumacat]

This is where you and those of your beliefs and sides are deluded.

I believe that if Trump and this team DOES NOT force investigation and find the fraud that the will of the American People has not been followed.

IF votes were dumped or manipulated by software, those are false votes and means my vote has been disenfranchised. IF votes are allowed with out proper signature verification, my vote has been disenfranchised.

So, it is YOU who are not wanting to ensure the will of the people.

You misunderstand. If votes were dumped and manipulated by software to change the results for Biden....I WANT an investigation.

So far, this is all simply Trump/Rudy G spouting it.
He says it in a microphone.
But yesterday, in a PA court, he said he was "not alleging fraud". Trump's lawyers have now said that in 6 states. What they are saying publicly and what they are filing are at complete and total odds.

The Georgia Secretary of State is a Republican. He adamantly says this did not happen. He's (and the Gov) is under immense pressure by Trump to cave in. So far they have not.

It is all completely illogical.

They claimed a massive national conspiracy. They claimed someone who works with Soros literally changed the votes by the hundreds of thousands for Biden to win.

And yet: The Republicans will hold on to the Senate (same ballot). The Republicans picked up seats in the House (same ballot). Trump GAINED votes (and % of votes) in most of these large cities from 2016 (Detroit, Philadelphia, etc) where Rudy is spouting this nonsense happened. Its ludicrous.

I mean, is it really that hard to imagine that we have one of the most unpopular President's of all time (likability/favorability wise) who is President during the worst pandemic in 100 years (and handled it awfully...but I digress) in an incredibly divided country lost? Do we really think cheating is the only way? Hell, Biden was favored by large margins to win (and I don't mean polls...I mean betting markets).

They are not going to win. They do not even have lawsuits in enough states to overturn 270. States are already certifying the results.

So what is the point?

To get the base fired up. To raise money to pay off campaign debt. To cry cheater. And to run again in 2024 (or use it to launch a news network).



This is an absolute clown show.

[catmanjack]

I am hugely disappointed in half the population pushing for a socialist government.
Pushing for handouts day after day and trying to ruin what America was built on.
Pride and hardwork.
Biden has had his hands in other countries pockets for 47 years and we turn the other cheek and post day after day that it doesn’t matter no one cares well I care he is a criminal and should be prosecuted.

[dan_bgblue]

This is an absolute clown show. \


Did you feel the same way about the impeachment process that was staged to undo the will of the people?

That my kind sir was clown show

[kingcat]

If OBama had helped challenge Hillary’s loss to Trump using the office of the President in every way to claim a Republican conspiracy to commit fraud I have a feeling those here would be in Washington with picks and axes.

And that was a close election.

Nah, this just means folks support whatever has to be done in hopes of overturning the election in most cases. That’s where America has come to. One man given power and complete trust who has shown no objection to misleading people to accomplish his goals and will not hesitate to fire or harass anyone who disagrees within his own party.
And most supporters refuse to draw any line as to what they accept from him.
Often even above American tradition and principles.

IMHO.

[ukpumacat]

I am hugely disappointed in half the population pushing for a socialist government.
Pushing for handouts day after day and trying to ruin what America was built on.
Pride and hardwork.
Biden has had his hands in other countries pockets for 47 years and we turn the other cheek and post day after day that it doesn’t matter no one cares well I care he is a criminal and should be prosecuted.

Even if every single thing you posted was true (its not)...it is what elections are for. And 51% of the country (by a margin in the millions) chose that person/vision.

I am saying this as genuinely and honestly as I can:

If Republicans will get their act together...they are likely to win back the House in 2022. In fact, after this election (and the gerrymandering and redistricting that will come from it), I would even say likely.

Our country is very very divided. So its that 10% in every election that decides it.

And guess what? For that 10%, the low tax argument WORKS. That 10% didn't choose Biden because they want their taxes raised. They chose him because they are just exhausted of Trump and the circus he brings (as well as his handling of Covid). And what he is doing now that the election is over simply CONFIRMS why they voted that way.

I'm not being mean (well not on purpose...just trying to make a point), but do you think that 10% in the middle believes Rudy G? Hair dye running down his face and blaming George Soros and Hugo Chavez for the election results. I hate to tell you, but that is raw steak for a red audience. No one else believes a word of it. And again, it simply confirms to them what they already thought about Trump and why they voted for Biden.

It was the same thing some on here said (I think Chuck) when the whole Defund the Police thing started. That was just an idiotic thing for any Dems to get behind. Biden thankfully saw that way ahead of time and refused it. But, someone on here posted...."defunding the police is stupid, but I am all for Dems saying it because it will cost them in the election." And they were right! It did.

This circus show happening with Trump and Rudy is stupid and dangerous. But I also think it will help Dems in the run-offs (I don't think enough) and in 2024 if Trump runs again. Politically speaking, this was the thing that Trump just never understood....elections are not won with your base, they are won by getting your base out (not a problem for him) and getting the middle to come your way. He simply never ever acknowledged that fact in any tangible way. It was literally the worst campaign strategy I have ever seen.

I am sort of joking here (as I am positive none of you would want this), but put me in charge of the next Republican Presidential campaign and your guy will win. Ha

I can assure you...raising taxes is a MUCH harder sell than lowering them. More restrictions is a MUCH harder sell than lessening them. So your team is starting out with a head start.
If they would just stop with the Trump circus and go back to their core values of less spending and lowering the national debt. And stay off of social issues that are unpopular. They could win the trifecta again in 2024. But that race has already started. Biden and Dems will be an incumbent. And he won't be nearly as scary after 4 years in office. So Republicans will have to win on what they stand for (which I think they have an advantage in) vs scaring people of what the other guy will do (which didn't work after that guy being in office for 8 years as VP and won't work 4 years from now.

P.S. And fwiw, I thought the very same things about my team the past 4 years. Them winning the House in 2018 was predictable. Trump was just unpopular. And I knew...if Dems will just get this right and not put up Bernie, and pick someone more moderate...they will win. And they did.

[ukpumacat]

This is an absolute clown show. \


Did you feel the same way about the impeachment process that was staged to undo the will of the people?

That my kind sir was clown show

Yes. And the Kavanaugh hearing.

[ukpumacat]

This is where you and those of your beliefs and sides are deluded.

I believe that if Trump and this team DOES NOT force investigation and find the fraud that the will of the American People has not been followed.

IF votes were dumped or manipulated by software, those are false votes and means my vote has been disenfranchised. IF votes are allowed with out proper signature verification, my vote has been disenfranchised.

So, it is YOU who are not wanting to ensure the will of the people.

And just so we are clear...this Dominion Voting nonsense that the attorney for the President of the United States was spouting today is a QAnon conspiracy theory that has been completely debunked.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-ne...aches-n1247780

[ukpumacat]

And anyone that doesn't think this is dangerous, please understand what they are trying (but will fail) to do.

They are not going to win in court. The DOJ will not investigate and find widespread fraud. None of that will happen.

They have the right to show evidence of fraud in court and fight it legally.

THAT is not what they are doing. They are not alleging fraud in court because they can't prove any of it.

So, they are trying to pressure Republican legislatures to ignore the voters and select their own electors.

https://twitter.com/AmyEGardner/stat...983125505?s=20

https://twitter.com/JennaEllisEsq/st...883808260?s=20

THAT is unbelievably dangerous. That is some deep state, back room bs.

And if this election had of been closer...might have actually worked.

[kingcat]

By “that’s what America has come to” I mean to point out it could happen to either side given opportunity. At some point we have to draw a line between patriotism and party loyalty. When that party becomes a man there is a scary problem.

[ukpumacat]

By “that’s what America has come to” I mean to point out it could happen to either side given opportunity.

Absolutely. And it can never ever happen.

[ukpumacat]

https://twitter.com/FirenzeMike/stat...732657152?s=20

[UKHistory]

And I am not optimistic that he won't eventually succeed. As Trump cries fraud (wolf) he is committing fraud. As he says the democrats that is what he is doing.

Trump himself raised the alarm about the dangers of mail in ballots. He put that out there, planting the seed that the democrats would resort to foul play as he puts the screws to state and local officials.

Had mail in ballots been allowed to be counted as they came in or immediately before the election, there would be no appearance that Trump had a lead stolen.

Every move Trump has made since the inauguration where he was the sorest winner on any stage I have ever seen, foreshadowed how he would disregard the Constitution and the Will of the people.

70 million voted for him. But 74 million came out against him.

By firing the Secretary of Defense, Chris Krebs and others who are loyal to the Constitution over him personally, Trump is setting the stage to end our democracy.

He really is. God save this nation from itself and Donald Twitler.