H.R. 5383: New Way Forward Act

[dan_bgblue]

What are CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, failing to report to you? I googled looking for a link to the news on all of those news icons and came up with zero results.

The answer is in the title of this thread and it is not like this is today's news as the bill was introduced to the house in mid December 2019. It has advanced to the Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship.

I actually ran across links to the news bits on a Texas Aggie sports message board that linked to a Fox News link. .

H.R. 5383: New Way Forward Act

Introduced by Rep. Jesus Garcia and now has 43 cosponsors

[CitizenBBN]

The Democratic leadership is in a complete tailspin, where the religion of leftism has taken over in the same way we have seen with the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, Robespierre, Mao's cultural revolution, etc.

It reaches a mob run fever pitch where no extremism is too much in pursuit of an ideology, and it overruns reason and balance and logic. If you don't agree to the next level of extremism you're a heretic and must be punished.

People think I'm exaggerating, but this bill proves I'm not. It suggests the US is somehow being racist to deny convicted felons admission as US citizens, that we must stop thinking of "good and bad" immigrants in terms of those who have committed crimes being "bad". It's insane.

It effectively is an apology to gangs like MS13, complete with repatriation of those deported under the old laws.

Why would anyone sign on to such a thing? B/c the litmus test is that you must be absolutely Pro immigration in any circumstance, otherwise you're racist.

It's now a religious movement in that it is not underpinned by objective empirical evidence to set policy, but is based on a series of beliefs that people must adhere to and be tested for otherwise they are heretics (i.e. racist sexist homophobes).

Religion can be a great and wonderful thing. I would say that for the first 150 years of this nation's existence we had a religion about individual liberty.

But religion can turn very dark and ugly very quickly when it becomes so extreme. When Christianity was hijacked by the Inquisition, when islam is hijacked by terrorism, and when 1960s liberalism becomes hijacked by this kind of extremism, we see horrible results.

This hasn't quite risen to that level, but it's getting there. You have elected officials calling for regulations on free speech, you have the leading Democratic candidate who has praised Cuba and the old USSR and has called for a fundamental end to the economic and individual liberty of the constitution, and you see this daily oneupmanship of policy where no idea is too absurd in the game of proving one's adherence to the ideology.

People may not see it, but read some history of these movements and I think it becomes clear. The Reign of Terror in France is an ideal analogy, where the good intent of removing the monarchy for a republic became hijacked by extremism and ended in a spiral of fascism that in the end only ended when it was used against Robespierre himself.

[Catonahottinroof]

Chuck....this is where the Democratic Party is starting to fracture.

[CitizenBBN]

Chuck....this is where the Democratic Party is starting to fracture.

I'm not saying the GOP has made a home for everyone, certainly not under Trump, but how "normal" people can still think the Democratic leadership is interested in their best interests is beyond me.

Esp. in states like Kentucky. I know a guy who is deacon at his church, very conservative on every social issue, and will absolutely vote Democrat straight ticket without question b/c "we're Democrats". Well dude, look around. The Democrats of his daddy's day are not there anymore.

Maybe at the local level, where you don't have these kinds of things in this area, but nationally they've been hijacked by an extremism that is beyond the pale.

And I get how people think Trump has done the same thing, and in terms of his behavior i'd agree, but in terms of his actual policies it's just not true. He's not suggested anything that is really radical. Even his immigration stance is mostly exactly what is in the current law and was put in place largely in the 1980s and 1990s.

But what's coming from the Left has reached a fever pitch that goes beyond reason. they are suggesting policies like this one that make no sense. It's the leftist equivalent of Trump proposing rounding up every non-citizen, even those here legally, and deporting them. No one on the right is going this far.

there's no doubt extremism is taking hold on both sides, but the left has become a religious fervor. There's some of that with Trump, but honestly most of his supporters are doing so with sobriety that he's the best choice we've been given, not b/c we think his antics are appealing.


And in truth, BOTH parties need a fracture. We need an axis shift badly, where Libertarians emerge as one group, and everyone else in the other camp. This sounds bad for Libertarians, but in truth most Americans are in fact pretty Libertarian when you quiz them on it without focusing on left and right and GOP and Democrat.

[dan_bgblue]

And in truth, BOTH parties need a fracture. We need an axis shift badly, where Libertarians emerge as one group, and everyone else in the other camp.

. This sounds bad for Libertarians, but in truth most Americans are in fact pretty Libertarian when you quiz them on it without focusing on left and right and GOP and Democrat.

I am not sure that would work out very well. We would have all the normal people, the blues, in one camp and all the skin heads and Hells angels plus the baby killing feminists, and the one world government socialists, the reds, in the other camp.

[CitizenBBN]

I am not sure that would work out very well. We would have all the normal people, the blues, in one camp and all the skin heads and Hells angels plus the baby killing feminists, and the one world government socialists, the reds, in the other camp.

So far I'm feeling good about that.

[Catonahottinroof]

idk....classical liberals are becoming left (no pun intended) without a home. The party is being run by the SJW, and Socialist portion of the party. I’m not even sure that faction is the majority right now either, but it’s not leaving the traditional portion of the party much ground to stand on simply because the SJW portion of the party won’t debate. They will just label you alt-right, racist etc.. because you don’t agree with them.
I see most Libertarians and classical liberals being closer than what is currently going on in the Democratic Party at the moment.

[dan_bgblue]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KclZoYwIIvs

[CitizenBBN]

idk....classical liberals are becoming left (no pun intended) without a home. The party is being run by the SJW, and Socialist portion of the party. I’m not even sure that faction is the majority right now either, but it’s not leaving the traditional portion of the party much ground to stand on simply because the SJW portion of the party won’t debate. They will just label you alt-right, racist etc.. because you don’t agree with them.
I see most Libertarians and classical liberals being closer than what is currently going on in the Democratic Party at the moment.

there's no home for either a traditional "liberal" and very little of one for a Libertarian or a fiscal conservative. the GOP still spends like drunk sailors, all financed by debt, and the Democrats are so far beyond "liberal" in the sense of just "tempering" capitalism that it's not funny.

the GOP is a little better off just b/c the Dems have taken an uber hard left turn since 2016, some in response to losing their minds over Trump and losing and some as a natural course of where they were heading by listening to the SJWs on Twitter, but neither is what most Americans want.

[KeithKSR]

I expect the left to veer even further to the left between now and November.

[ukpumacat]

neither is what most Americans want.

Just a reminder about "most Americans":

Hillary had more votes than Trump.
Dems won the House and gained in the Senate in the 2018 mid-terms.
Dems gained 7 State Governorships.
The mid-term elections had the highest mid-term voter turnout since 1914.

That doesn't mean the same thing will happen in 2020. But the idea of the Democratic Party falling apart is a farce.

[CitizenBBN]

Just a reminder about "most Americans":

Hillary had more votes than Trump.
Dems won the House and gained in the Senate in the 2018 mid-terms.
Dems gained 7 State Governorships.
The mid-term elections had the highest mid-term voter turnout since 1914.

That doesn't mean the same thing will happen in 2020. But the idea of the Democratic Party falling apart is a farce.

Most americans don't want pelosi or Hillary. They voted for Hillary b/c Trump was the alternative, just like how many Trump voters voted for him b/c Hillary was the only other option.

I stand by my statement: most Americans don't want what either party is selling right now.

First, even those within the demo of each party have broad issues with the "elites" and establishment. Thus the rise of Trump and Bernie. Hillary didn't get huge turnout b/c she's as insider as you can get. Jeb Bush couldn't even get elected dog catcher b/c of it. We're in a Populist swing.

Second, many people who don't even know what a Libertarian is in fact have general Libertarian views. A broader approach and an axis shift towards a party that is more liberal socially and more conservative fiscally could establish itself as at least a big chunk of the electorate.

Many americans simply aren't fully at home with either camp in general, and certainly not right now, as the Tea Party and Trump show in the GOP and the Sanders movement shows in the Democrats.

"Throw the bums out" would be the majority party if we held a national referendum on just firing all elected officials IMO.

I never said the Dems were falling apart, I simply pointed out neither party is really in great shape as neither is really offering a package that has broad appeal.

The Dems are losing blue collar voters, esp. white voters, b/c they no longer stand on those issues, b/c they are in the media so busy on SJW issues. The GOP lost its way spending like drunk sailors and the Tea party formed. Trump isn't really speaking for everyone, he's just the best option versus Hillary "Tammany Hall" Clinton and now Bernie the Crotchety Socialist Millionaire.

[dan_bgblue]

most Americans don't want what either party is selling right now.

Most, is kind of a ambiguous number even in these tough times, but whatever number it represents I will be glad to include my don't wants in that group.