Fox News Article

[ukpumacat]

I have little doubt how this article will be received by most on here. But I thought it was fascinating. I didn't think it actually left anyone (Trump, Fox, etc) in a bad light. Just that they are all master businessmen.


This stuff greatly interests me and it has been fascinating to watch.

And I love the debate over the question: who is using whom? when it comes to Trump and Fox. My guess is that it is a great working partnership.

I also find it interesting that after the Mid-term elections Fox's top shows have all dropped 20%. Not just that, but for the first time in years...Hannity lost the #1 show mantle to Maddow. They will likely be wrestling at the top for some time but Hannity's numbers are going down while hers are on the rise. https://www.forbes.com/sites/markjoy.../#356586d57730

Finally, for a bit of perspective on what all of this could mean for 2020...

Fox News is still the highest rated cable news network. But, you could also argue that its the only choice for conservative/right wingers. And that centrists to liberals are divided between MSNBC and CNN (with more liberals leaning toward MSNBC and more moderates to CNN). If you add CNN and MSNBC numbers together they outpace Fox by quite a bit.

I have several theories on what I think will happen in 2020...but I believe just like in 2016...much of it will be foreshadowed by these news outlets and ratings.

Anyways...here is the article for those interested: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...ws-white-house

[CitizenBBN]

My first thought, re it being a leading indicator, is that macro level data, i.e. total voter type numbers nationwide, is just not useful in predicting elections b/c we don't vote that way. Trump won b/c he edged out Hillary in states he targeted as possible swing states and Hillary blew them off counting them as sure things.

In the end it doesn't matter if every single person in California or New York vote for the Democratic candidate, they still only get so many electoral votes. What matters is the distribution of those votes.

So I'd want to know how Fox is doing in certain markets versus total numbers. Are more people in deep blue states tuning into blue TV or are people in pink and red states switching over? that's the key question that can't be answered with just the totals.

Also, way too far off to predict the race. Right now the man Democrat candidates seem hell bent to out leftist each other. If they come out with Green New Deal type platforms they'll do well in the primary but be a real struggle to pull in those voters Trump won with in areas like Pennslyvania and Michigan. They will care about other things, things Trump speaks to.

I agree completely that Fox kind of locks up the right viewership where basically every other network has to split blue viewers. I think that says a lot about the bias of the media but no doubt that's how the viewership plays out.

Way too much to play out to read much into anything IMO re the election itself. The Democratic primary ought to be interesting. Right now you've got a bunch of nitwits trying to get out in front. IMO they are trying to get some kind traction before Biden and the guy from Texas announce, and maybe even Hillary lol. So they're jumping on everything with a camera in front of it like the Green New Deal to try to get name recognition.

But I doubt any of them win the primary, so in that sense we don't even know who the Dem candidate will be yet, and IMO the eventual winner isn't even in the field technically yet.

[CitizenBBN]

Oh, and one more thought. Hannity is a bit of a blowhard and has gotten more full of himself, and Maddow is a wack job and full of crap in a major way. I don't recommend watching either of them. I have a choice who I'll take over the other by far, but I still recommend picking "other".

[kingcat]

Imo Biden is the clear leader of the party and the Dem I would support fully and without any reservation. I cant say I can feel that way that about any other potential candidate.

But, and I dont mean to offend his supporters, I personally feel we must do anything possible to protect this country from a second term of a non-restrained Donald Trump.

As for the so called cable news outlets, most are only arms of the two major political parties. Primarily Fox news and MSNBC who each could have served nazi Germany or the former soviet union admirably.
Others have lowered their standards to stand against such dangerous "journalism" only to become a part of the problem.

[dan_bgblue]

CBBN, I am glad I have a choice today, and that choice is to watch neither of them. My news reports come from a few selected websites that seem to try to report the news without a ton and a half of bias. I generally scan fox news online, but will not put money on their info.

[CitizenBBN]

I get why you'd support Biden, and I sure hope he wins versus anyone in the Dem field right now, but if he wins he will be the dumbest human to ever hold that office, including some guys from the 1800s who I think had brain damage.

Seriously, he's a classic example of a pure empty politician with a great staff that runs things. That's why when he gets off the cuff he says some amazingly crazy things, like suggesting you blast people through doors with shotguns.

He wont' get outside the lines very much b/c his staff won't go there, so he's a safe choice, but he's a stuffed shirt.

As for the Great Trump Distopian Future, I think you need to find a new theory for the End of Days. After more than 2 years of his Administration Road to Hell and nothing even notable has really happened compared to any other, maybe it's time to reevaluate based on the available empirical data?

If you're looking for alternatives the rogue asteroid thing is always good, but I'm a fan of zombie virus. Or rampant socialism, that's a good one too, and seems more and more likely.

People are convinced he's pure evil, but seem to lack any actual examples of anything he's done that is any more extreme or an issue than myriad examples from past Administrations from either side. There's just no "there" there. Nothing. Not a thing.

[CitizenBBN]

Found this article on February ratings:

https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/the-...ry-2019/395299

Interestingly, Hannity back to #1, but basically Hannity, Tucker carlson (who IS great) and Maddow are all but tied, then a gap and 3-4 more Fox shows, then another gap, etc.

What's very interesting in their article is this tidbit:

not one cable news program in the top 10 in this category that existed last year posted audience growth vs. February 2018. Anderson Cooper 360 was only -7 percent in the demo vs. the prior February, but each of the other shows were down double digits year-over-year.

What that says to me is that these shows are experiencing a shift in viewing habits overall more than any shift in political alignment. I imagine people are just not watching live TV in this format as much and are going more async over the net. Same effect as with newspapers, just not as dramatic.

so I don't see a trend here, I see a fluctuation at the top that's pretty normal within the range, and I see some exogenous trends on the whole industry. it's true Fox shows are down versus a year ago, but so are all the others. That's not a political shift, that's a shift in how news is consumed.

[kingcat]

I wont go into bashing everything about Trump here.....but I very well could probably point out a hundred things that would require a defensive argument. And every one would be received that way.
This is a place to trash Dems and defend Mr Trump, and I have accepted that because I dont have the time or the will to argue with friends. It just is..no ifs, ands, or buts.
Nothing wrong with that.

But let me be clear..our observations Chuck, well they are as far apart as day is from night. Those observations are what enable both you and I to form what we might consider empirical data..which when dissected is no more than opinion since we can choose to disbelieve the validity of the related facts by accepting "alternate facts" as reality. Strange days indeed!
And also the empirical is very often born of theoretical data, of which I think there is also plenty.
So basically, either of us can be mistaken..or either of us can choose to take a blind eye.
I know I may be mistaken on a few things, but overall I consider myself as not willfully blind. But the sheer number of legitimate issues almost guarantee we are correct about many, which justifies suspicion.
Yet, I think you honestly believe you are 100% correct, so I wont beleaguer the point.

I didn't intend to discuss details in this matter again, and tried to limit myself to expressing a simple, short and sweet, fair opinion. And I hope no one was offended that I chose to respond.

[CitizenBBN]

I wont go into bashing everything about Trump here.....but I very well could.

Like I said, I choose not to offend his loyal supporters here, but I and most of the World would put Biden's IQ up against the POTUS and feel very comfortable.

You need to go read his Senate hearings then. It'll convince you.

I"m serious. I'm not bashing Biden b/c he's a Democrat. He's been a senator since the 1980s. At that time I read 100s of Senate hearings for debate. Esp. the year of arms sales topic, and Biden was on the Armed Services Committee, so I read his questioning many many times.

Go back to old KSR from the beginning. I've always tabbed him as one of the dumbest members of Congress, and it's true. that's why he has all those gaffs.

Trump is different. He's a lot of things, but his gaffs are his own, he's just talking with no filter and he's prone to just say over the top things as a matter of style and attention getting. I don't condone it either, but Trump has been successful outside of politics and without a bevy of handlers and staffers to conduct everything.

I'm not insulting anyone who supports him. I'm just telling folks that I have followed Biden since he was a junior Senator and he has consistently shown he just doesn't understand things.

Trump is no genius. Neither are most Presidents truthfully, but Trump isn't a stuffed shirt politician who is basically two dimensional. That's why he won, b/c people on both sides are rejecting traditional career politicians. It's why Biden will struggle.

Right now I figure Beto will win the nomination. He's tall and handsome and will be seen as more of a new face and outsider, and that's a huge factor right now.

Like I said I'll take Biden over Pocahontas or the others so far, but I know going in I'm relying on the institutional structure of political staffing to make it work OK. And it probably will, b/c he does clearly listen to his staff and they are obviously capable.

[CitizenBBN]

I will say this, if you love the gaffe filled Trump moments where he claims stuff like Kim not killing that kid in NOKO, you'll love Biden. lol. Guy is a gaffe machine. Some are just honest moments of articulation, funny but not any more serious than many of Trumps, but some have required the same international apologizes the Trump haters say are destroying our nation when Trump does them.

Truthfully they wont' hurt any more for Biden than Trump, but dont' think you're getting a sharp well spoken guy like Obama or Reagan.

Here's a nice example of his Middle East gaffe with Turkey while VP:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.1c85228dabab

Here's one of my favorites, where he suggest his wife shoot a shotgun in the air from their "balcony" for home defense, which is illegal in Delaware:

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...-biden-in-jail

But he got better. When he got called out on that one he walked it back and instead suggested you just blast through the door without identifying the person at all:

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...n-through-door

Seriously, the week after suggesting his wife fire a gun in the air as his answer to not needing AR15s in the world, he advised blasting a shotgun through the door. In most states that's felony murder, even Kentucky depending on the circumstances.

If nothing else, it'll be entertaining. Just like Trump is to me, but then again I'm confident he's not plotting the burning of the Constitution.

[kingcat]

Oh I dont think he would burn the constitution. I do believe he would like to add his name to it and sell it if he could.

[CitizenBBN]

Well we could use the money. It would fetch a good price.

[kingcat]

Well we could use the money. It would fetch a good price.

It would just end up hanging in a clubhouse somewhere.

[ukpumacat]

Found this article on February ratings:

https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/the-...ry-2019/395299

Interestingly, Hannity back to #1, but basically Hannity, Tucker carlson (who IS great) and Maddow are all but tied, then a gap and 3-4 more Fox shows, then another gap, etc.

What's very interesting in their article is this tidbit:

not one cable news program in the top 10 in this category that existed last year posted audience growth vs. February 2018. Anderson Cooper 360 was only -7 percent in the demo vs. the prior February, but each of the other shows were down double digits year-over-year.

What that says to me is that these shows are experiencing a shift in viewing habits overall more than any shift in political alignment. I imagine people are just not watching live TV in this format as much and are going more async over the net. Same effect as with newspapers, just not as dramatic.

so I don't see a trend here, I see a fluctuation at the top that's pretty normal within the range, and I see some exogenous trends on the whole industry. it's true Fox shows are down versus a year ago, but so are all the others. That's not a political shift, that's a shift in how news is consumed.

I think you are misreading that. All Fox shows dropped from Feb last year:
Hannity -5%
Tucker -2%
Ingraham -4%

But all of the MSNBC shows grew from Feb of last year:
Maddow +7%
O’Donnell +12%
Williams +22%

The numbers you were referring to are for the younger demographic in which Rachel Maddow and Brian Williams are not listed.

Certainly less young people might be watching and moving toward other platforms. But generally speaking, Fox shows are down from a year ago and MSNBC numbers are significantly up.
That means something.

And I do think that it is an indicator (certainly not the only one) of where the electorate is at.
Obama (and especially Hillary) coalesced the Republican base and Fox News fed them the angry, racist fear based red meat they were craving.
In a similar way, Trump has coalesced the Democratic base. It may seem all scattered now with factions (the Republican Party literally did everything possible to keep Trump from winning) in the Democratic Party. But at the end of the day...they will vote together and I expect will win in 2020. The middle will not be fooled by Trump again imo. And his base is not big enough to carry him.
Biden would be a poor choice imo. I expect Beto, Booker, Kamala or Castro to end up as the nominee frankly. They will capture the Bernie wing needed to win.

[Catonahottinroof]

I think you are misreading that. All Fox shows dropped from Feb last year:
Hannity -5%
Tucker -2%
Ingraham -4%

But all of the MSNBC shows grew from Feb of last year:
Maddow +7%
O’Donnell +12%
Williams +22%

The numbers you were referring to are for the younger demographic in which Rachel Maddow and Brian Williams are not listed.

Certainly less young people might be watching and moving toward other platforms. But generally speaking, Fox shows are down from a year ago and MSNBC numbers are significantly up.
That means something.

And I do think that it is an indicator (certainly not the only one) of where the electorate is at.
Obama (and especially Hillary) coalesced the Republican base and Fox News fed them the angry, racist fear based red meat they were craving.
In a similar way, Trump has coalesced the Democratic base. It may seem all scattered now with factions (the Republican Party literally did everything possible to keep Trump from winning) in the Democratic Party. But at the end of the day...they will vote together and I expect will win in 2020. The middle will not be fooled by Trump again imo. And his base is not big enough to carry him.
Biden would be a poor choice imo. I expect Beto, Booker, Kamala or Castro to end up as the nominee frankly. They will capture the Bernie wing needed to win.

She has too many skeletons in her closet from corruption to bedroom connections to Willie Brown in 90s LA to be elected....and if she is nominated all of those items will be highlighted front and center by the GOP, and rightly so.

[suncat05]

Have none of you ever watched One America News (OAN) or NewsMax?
There ARE alternatives to Fox News.

Just as there are alternatives to CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, Headline News, etc.

I have noticed that Fox seems to be reaching out to the Left by having left-wingers like that femi-Nazi Marie Harf, or guys like Geraldo on a lot more since Trump has occupied the Oval Office.
Have any of you ever listened to some of the stuff Marie Harf says?
I'll never forget this little gem from Harf's ignorant piehole when she was an Obama Administration spokesperson, and the discussion was about actually gaining victory against ISIS terrorists and the Taliban, and her reply was "you can't kill your way to victory".......uh, that is exactly what you're supposed to do when you're at war with people whose sole purpose in life is to exterminate you and all your people into oblivion.
That's what they're doing at Fox now, and is one of the reasons their veiwership is dropping.

[ukpumacat]

Have none of you ever watched One America News (OAN) or NewsMax?
There ARE alternatives to Fox News.

Just as there are alternatives to CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, Headline News, etc.

I have noticed that Fox seems to be reaching out to the Left by having left-wingers like that femi-Nazi Marie Harf, or guys like Geraldo on a lot more since Trump has occupied the Oval Office.
Have any of you ever listened to some of the stuff Marie Harf says?
I'll never forget this little gem from Harf's ignorant piehole when she was an Obama Administration spokesperson, and the discussion was about actually gaining victory against ISIS terrorists and the Taliban, and her reply was "you can't kill your way to victory".......uh, that is exactly what you're supposed to do when you're at war with people whose sole purpose in life is to exterminate you and all your people into oblivion.
That's what they're doing at Fox now, and is one of the reasons their veiwership is dropping.

Fox is in zero way reaching out to the left. Don't kid yourself. They only have liberals on to stoke the fire. Nothing else. There was a time they attempted to be the "fair and balanced" network. They dropped that slogan a few years after they stopped trying.

As the article states...there was a time when Hannity was Hannity and Colmes. Which was really a bad show because Hannity is a loudmouth blowhard and Colmes was a meek and quiet Washington General. It was a combo that worked for a long time because Hannity's style throttled Colmes most of the time.
But now? They don't even try. And rightly so as a business. They have cornered the market on conservatives in most ways and that decision pushed them to #1.

[ukpumacat]

She has too many skeletons in her closet from corruption to bedroom connections to Willie Brown in 90s LA to be elected....and if she is nominated all of those items will be highlighted front and center by the GOP, and rightly so.

There is obviously a LOT of time left for many things to change. You might be right about Kamala. But I heard a lot of the same things here in california when she ran for Senate. And she beat another Democrat by 23 points.

Either way, the only thing the Dems need to do is to make this election about Trump. In 2016, people almost disliked Hillary as much as Trump. I truly believe she was the only democratic candidate he could have beaten.

This article is a good breakdown of where things stand right now: https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/03/05/pol...www.cnn.com%2F

[Catonahottinroof]

I wouldn’t trust any polling right now...given their 2016 track record.....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startsw.../#6da896313795

[ukpumacat]

And speaking of this topic, Trump just fired the Fox News Exec he hired last year:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/08/polit...020/index.html

[dan_bgblue]

Hey, I do not know why people expected anything different, I mean the man starred in a TV show that was celebrated for 2 1/2 words "You're Fired"