California - the liberal state

[ukpumacat]

I do my best to defend my state (California) whenever I can. And I do that for several reasons:

1. I pay a lot of money to live here...so I better like it.
2. I do, in fact, love living here.
3. I believe it gets a bad rap.
Many look at California as a state that passes down liberal laws from the top to bottom. It doesn't.
California is full of conservatives. The majority of the counties in California are conservative. Its just the big coastal cities that aren't. And I live in the most conservative of the "liberal" big cities. Its political make-up is several states in one. Sort of like if Illinois, Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky were all one massive state. I don't know the % but California is like 90% farmland and desert.
The difference is that more than just about any state in America, California is EXTREMELY diverse. Its a melting pot. People come here from all over the Unites States and the world. Not quite on the New York level but close.
And what that diversity brings is different points of view. We get exposed to all kinds of walks of life on a daily basis (depending on where we live). And that, in turn, causes there to not be quite such a staunch stand on many views.

California isn't a gay friendly state. Californians are. And therefore the state is. We voted on that. It wasn't handed down from the liberal elite.
And any legislation that is passed without a vote from the people gets extreme scrutiny. And that politician is putting his career on the line to do it.
I know this because I have a good friend who just did it. He is a conservative Republican. He has served as the head of the Republican caucus in Sacramento. And he just put up legislation for an environmentally friendly bill. Global warming. And Cap and Trade. And he's up for re-election in November. And just had a tough primary where his Republican opponent made that THE issue in the campaign.
And the registered republicans voted him to the general election by over 20 points over his closest Republican challenger.
This is a guy that has been a Republican his whole life, graduated from Liberty University and leads worship at his church.
But he supports gay marriage, believes in Global warming, and works with Democrats on all sorts of issues in the state.
He represents a lot of Californians. For good, better or worse...that is much of California.
The state, in many ways, is exactly what the people want it to be.

I can only speak for me, but when you have really close friends that are gay...it changes what you think about it. Most families have like one person, somewhere. The outlier. But where I live, its your neighbors. Your co-workers. Your friends. And very quickly you begin to see the people. People that truly love their partners. That have a family. People that were told by their church that they are wrong. And you hurt for them.

Same with immigration. I don't get the benefit of holding immigration views in a bubble. I have Mexican friends, neighbors, co-workers, and family members. And I absolutely love the fact that I do. I love their culture and their food (ha!). They aren't taking my job. Or anyone else I know. They are doing the work that no one else wants to do. And for pennies on the dollar. Many of them are the hardest working people I know. Most of them clean houses, wash cars, cut grass, and do whatever else people like me don't want to do.
I don't know any drug dealers. Crime where I live is extremely low.

One of my really good friends....she works for the school district here. She is Mexican. Her mother brought her here when she was a child. So she went to elementary, middle school, high school and San Diego State. She got her degree and now makes a wonderful living as a registrar at a high school. She has a pension.
She is also married. Her husband came to the United States when he was 22 (so not a child). He applied for a green card and was rejected. The court told him the only way to become a citizen was to get married to a citizen. Which worked great because they were in love. So they got married. They applied again and were rejected. They were told the reason is because he had a misdemeanor on his record from 1987. So they hired a lawyer, spent every dime she had saved from working, and eventually won in court. The judge expunged the misdemeanor from his record.
So they applied for the green card again. And again were rejected.
They applied for 10 years until he finally received his green card. He had been in the United States for over 20 years at that point. They had spent over $30,000.
The law states that you must have your green card for 5 years before you can apply to become a United States Citizen. IT had taken him over 10 years to get the green card. But he was finally almost there.
Two years into having his green card he was deported. He had not committed a crime. He was not where he "shouldn't" have been. He was at work. They didn't offer a reason. They just took him.
She of course has done everything possible to find out what happened. They simply told her that he had been in the United States for too long without gaining citizenship and under new laws recently passed he had to be deported. She hired a lawyer, but because he isn't a United States citizen he has virtually no rights or case. And because he was deported he lost his green card. So now they have to start the process all over again. That was two years ago.
She works here. She is a citizen. He has been here for over 20 years and done everything possible to become one. They have a high school daughter. And every weekend they drive down to Mexico so they can spend time with husband/dad. And leave at 2am to return back here where they live. They do this every single weekend.
So when I hear people on tv or Facebook say, "If they want to come here tell them to do it the right way", you can imagine I don't have a lot of patience for it. And I assure you its rarely someone from California saying that. We just know way too many people with too true stories to know its just not that simple.
I work with a non-profit here that does this exact thing. It employs attorneys who work pro-bono to help Mexicans become United States citizens. I can tell you stories for days. Even with our help, its next to impossible these days. They will in fact tell you the only real way to do it now if you are not a minor (much easier for them) is to marry a United States citizen. And even then, as referenced above, it still may not be enough.

I don't complain about the taxes here. Or the high housing prices. Too many people want to live here and so the laws of supply and demand inflate our market. But I am proud of my state and will continue to stand up and fight for people who have very few people fighting for them. I know how California is viewed because I was born in Kentucky and used to view it the same way. But I would have a hard time living anywhere else now.
I don't say any of that to change anyone's mind. I respect everyone's views and the right for us to disagree. I hope that feeling is mutual.

[CitizenBBN]

Great post puma. Frankly this is the kind of discussion I have hoped to have on this board. People who aren't zealously political just discussing these things.

A few quick thoughts:

1) California does get a bad rap. They are dominated by LA and the San Fran valley politically just as Illinois is dominated by Chicago. County by county there is a lot of red in California. It's just not enough to win the seats.

2) Re the "gay" issue, I'm a libertarian and generally caucus with conservatives as they are closer to my overall views, but I agree if anyone out there still has issues with someone being gay, they need some gay friends. I have loads of gay friends. I'm in a business with a lot of gay customers. I vacation in a town known as a very gay friendly community decades before that was acceptable.

I get the religious issues and when those are sincere I respect those as well, but this nation was formed to allow freedom of expression so we need to all just be tolerant. But that means we need to tolerate those who are gay and also those who don't approve, so long as neither is trying to deny the other but simply trying to find ways to get along despite those different views. Neither shoving those views down the other's throat. Mutual respect even if you don't agree.

3) Immigration. Believe it or not I have been "pro immigration" my entire adult life. Our immigration laws are a mess, and TRump is 100% correct when he says they are a mess. People hear him saying he wants laws to keep immigrants out, and I do think he's generally anti-immigration on economic grounds, and I disagree with him on that issue.

But I'm also for building a wall and securing the border ALONG WITH reforming our immigration laws so people can still come here and gain citizenship and contribute and be Americans. Those two aren't incompatible, in fact it's the only sane approach IMO.

Otherwise we get what we have now. Those who want lots of immigration won't give on border security, those who want less immigration won't give on opening up the quotas etc. to allow more legal immigration, and neither side is willing to negotiate anything or give an inch.

So we get an impass where the drug cartels are doing as much to decide who enters this country from Mexico as we are, if not more. They run the other side of the border as much as anyone does, so we end up with the worst of all possible outcomes for both sides.

The sane option is to yes, build a wall and get real security of our border to deal with gangs and drugs and cartels and yes, illegal immigration generally. BUT it needs to be bundled with changing our draconian and confusing and convoluted laws to allow more legal immigration and opportunity for people to become citizens.

Trump dances around this, but our toughest immigration laws are to prevent the immigration of people with degrees and high levels of merit in order to prevent competition in those markets. Hes right, that's nuts. The "Brain drain" has long been a very effective way for America to stay on top economically, bringing new ideas and creative people here to invent and build. Those laws need to change and encourage more merit based immigration, but not to the exclusion of allowing others who are just starting out to also come and find prosperity.

The system now is desperately broken, and was under every President since the 1980s and before. But we're stuck b/c neither side can see that giving up some of what they want would be a net gain for everyone.

[Darryl]

D, very good post. I am married to a beautiful part Mexican girl. Her father was an immigrant who became an engineer in the Navy. They grew up in El Paso. My wife told me they were not allowed to speak Spanish in their home; it was English 100%. She and her 3 siblings are all college educated, successful people.

My feelings on gays is simply they are no different than other people. Just doesn't concern me. I really don't have a strong opinion on abortion. Stricter gun laws would be okay but as a Health Care professional (I run a home care company and have worked 41 years as a Hospital Pharmacist) I can tell you with the HIPPA laws; knowing someone has mental problems will be a real challenge going forward.

I am very much in favor of helping our homeless and improving the process for LEGAL immigration. One way I differ from most is I would totally eliminate any active immigration. My best friend has a map of the US with the caption "F*** off, we're full". Help every single person already here but stop the pipeline into America. This "ain't" 1920.

I like what Trump did with NATO; every country needs to pay their bills. I would also favor the elimination (totally) of Foreign Aid. I know that is a simplistic view, but dollar diplomacy rarely works.

I will close by saying most of my life I have been a Fiscal conservative and a moderate person regarding social issues. The way Democrats have handled Mr. Trump's election has been a disgrace. They are radicalizing MANY moderate Republicans..IMO. One last question: when have any non-Democrats EVER acted in the Capitol at a Supreme Court Nominee's hearing like what we are seeing the last 2 days? Despicable.

In closing, I despise that worthless SOB Kaepernick.

Darryl

[Doc]

D, very good post. I am married to a beautiful part Mexican girl. Her father was an immigrant who became an engineer in the Navy. They grew up in El Paso. My wife told me they were not allowed to speak Spanish in their home; it was English 100%. She and her 3 siblings are all college educated, successful people.

My feelings on gays is simply they are no different than other people. Just doesn't concern me. I really don't have a strong opinion on abortion. Stricter gun laws would be okay but as a Health Care professional (I run a home care company and have worked 41 years as a Hospital Pharmacist) I can tell you with the HIPPA laws; knowing someone has mental problems will be a real challenge going forward.

I am very much in favor of helping our homeless and improving the process for LEGAL immigration. One way I differ from most is I would totally eliminate any active immigration. My best friend has a map of the US with the caption "F*** off, we're full". Help every single person already here but stop the pipeline into America. This "ain't" 1920.

I like what Trump did with NATO; every country needs to pay their bills. I would also favor the elimination (totally) of Foreign Aid. I know that is a simplistic view, but dollar diplomacy rarely works.

I will close by saying most of my life I have been a Fiscal conservative and a moderate person regarding social issues. The way Democrats have handled Mr. Trump's election has been a disgrace. They are radicalizing MANY moderate Republicans..IMO. One last question: when have any non-Democrats EVER acted in the Capitol at a Supreme Court Nominee's hearing like what we are seeing the last 2 days? Despicable.

In closing, I despise that worthless SOB Kaepernick.

Darryl

My views are similar. I'd only disagree with stopping all immigration, but definitely want it to be legal. Gays, I could not care less but I don't want to hear about it any more than they want to hear about my heterosexual lifestyle. I don't get "gay pride" any more than I would "straight pride". On abortion, I'm anti-abortion but pro choice, meaning I believe its wrong but you should make your own choice. I do believe there is a point during pregnancy upon which an abortion should be illegal unless the mother's life is at risk. As you stated with gun control, the identification of mental illness has always been my concern. Privacy laws is one aspect, and I sure don't want the gov't to have access to my medical records!! The other is unjust classification. I'm also for helping those who can not help themselves but not for the capable. I don't get incentivizing people to not work. When unemployment pays nearly as much as working, then it does not make sense to work. Legal immigration is fine. This sneaking across the border crap is for the birds. I have a BIL who immigrated here legally so I know its possible. Sure, its a long and laborious task but it should be. Thumbs up to Trump for calling out the freeloaders of NATO. Americans should be tired of footing the bills. I say the same about the UN. And I sure would not give foreign aid to any country in the middle east until they repay in oil, and stop with the anti-american rhetoric. As for the hearings, a total farce. Crybaby tactics performed by crybabies. As for Kaepernick, I laugh at his hypocrisy. He protest the police for making prejudicial assumptions while making the assumption that all police officers are bad.

[bigsky]

I used to be a moderate Republican leaning libertarian. Now I’m just disgusted, mostly by democrats. That’s right. Not Trump. Not the right. The left.

Fine heartfelt discussion, Puma.

[ukpumacat]

Appreciate the responses fellas.