I really like Rubio, but it will be tough to stop the Trump train. That train will run Hillary over.
Trump scares the establishment wings of both parties, he is their worst nightmare. He is not held hostage by any special interest groups and will simply refuse to bow to them.
The oddity is that Trump is the kind of candidate our Founding Fathers had in mind. They never wanted career politicians to run the government.
One thing I really like about Trump is that he's rich and doesn't care, he won't owe anyone anything when he gets there, ought to make it very interesting.
The problem is that he's a walking gaff and is as likable as a porcupine. He's the opposite of "Presidential" in his entire manner.
But there were some pretty stunning characters among the Founding Fathers too, including Ben Franklin who was a partying, womanizing guy with an equally brash wit. He wasn't an ass though, people actually liked him.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
Originally Posted by ukpumacat
A few things to note. You mentioned you don't trust Trump. I'm not sure I do either but while with "the Donald", I'm not sure, with Hillary I KNOW I don't trust her. So for me it comes down to which is worse, somebody you're not sure or somebody you know?
Second, I think a whole lot of people have underestimated the disgust for the gov't that people have. You mentioned that Trump is the catalyst for a Clinton victory. Part of me says the opposite. A year ago Hillary was a shoe in. It was pretty much a foregone conclusion that she would be the next President. However I'm actually starting to believe that the one thing that can stop her is Trump. Talk about energizing! The guy has every pissed off American on his side and while that might alienate many hard conservatives, it's the hard conservativism that has lost the last 2 elections. Social issues are killing the far right. Trump seems less beholden to that and that is a good thing. Plus I'd love to see somebody tell the leader of Iran EXACTLY what they think of them. Screw the political correctness. Time for us to put on our big boy pants. Call them a bunch of terrorists. If they don't like it, tough! Tell the Mexican's to immigrate legally even if it hurts their feelings. Tell Chiiiinaaa to bite me on the trade issues, etc.... I got no problem with that. I'm tired of coddling our enemies and people who want to do us harm.
The GOP ticket will be Trump/Christie. Chris Christie is positioning himself for the #2 spot quite well. Personally I don't think its a bad one. As for the "end of the republican party", far from it. What it will lead to is a retooling of the party into one that is more inclusive and less rigid. Hopefully the crusty old farts that run the party will head for the hills and leave it to the more reasonable central leaning ones who actually do want less government and less intrusion into their lives.
Last edited by Doc; 03-02-2016 at 08:49 AM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
I am pretty much in agreement with Doc.
Where the problem is going to be is with the RNC @ the Convention. If Trump garners the number of delegates he needs to be the GOP nominee and the RNC blocks that, there will be a major, major problem for the GOP as a whole entity. Like him or not, and again, I myself am not a fan, if he has the delegates to win the the RNC won't nominate him, then he will peel away from the GOP and basically dissolve the GOP. But another larger issue looms in all of this: if the RNC refuses his nomination, then not only are they doing that in public view, but they're telling us, the American people, that they are going to do what THEY want, no matter what, and that we have no voice in the matter. THAT WE, THE AMERICAN ELECTORATE, DO NOT MATTER AND HAVE NO VOICE IN THIS! Say what?? We don't matter? Just shut up and let "them" take care of this?? No, that's how we will have arrived at this sorry conclusion, because we let the career politicians go unchecked for decades now.
And from there it all goes downhill even further. I despise these people. I hate even giving them that designation, because they're not even really that anymore. And I have not served my country for all of these years, followed my parents lead and been a good and productive citizen to be told that my American citizenship means nothing anymore.
MOLON LABE!
My guy is John Kasich. I think he is the single hope the nation and the Republican party have.
Rubio, like Obama, is a first term US senator who is not prepared to lead the country or work with folks on the other side.
And finding a middle ground between the extremes of the two parties is critical for the country to be successful.
Cruz to me is the second coming of Joe McCarthy. Some here liked shutting down the government. Me not so much. And I think most in the senate viewed Cruz's efforts as more about making a name for himself than defending the nation.
Trump is a loud mouth who speaks his mind but I don't think has the tact or the experience to lead the country and work with other countries.
Kasich as a governor is a head of state. He has experience in Congress and is moderate. Experience as a governor means a lot as being senator does not prepare you to serve as a head of state.
On the other side, Hilary is someone I don't think should be in office for a variety of reasons (the email security breach being near the top of the list). But on a day when you have candidates mocking the hand size of their competitors, Hilary looks far more presidential than I would like.
A brokered Republican convention would some television. It might also destroy the Republican party if the RNC works to keep Trump from being the party nominee despite having more supporters than the other candidates.
Rubio had me until the whole "Gang of Eight" situation. I am not sure he is totally trustworthy now.
Kasich I like, but he doesn't have enough clout by himself.
Not a fan of Christie.
Not of fan of Trump, but I do like some of the things he says. Do not agree with everything he says, but some of it is gold.
McCarthy's methods were all wrong, but he was correct t in his assertions of Communist infiltrations into the U.S. government and Hollywood. His hearings just ended up being good theater, and not much else. But this is where I disagree with you History........Cruz and McCarthy are light years apart except for being conservatives.
Just my humble opinion.
MOLON LABE!
We will see, that's for sure. Politics is fun for me because I don't get too worked up about it.
I still think Trump loses to Hillary. He and Christie are so unlikable. And as I said, all of the excitement Trump brings with new voters helps Hillary as well. He will do more to bring out the vote against him as he does for him. Jmo of course. But a lot of people hate him. More than that, I know many republican friends who say they will never vote for him.
I could easily see a 3rd party candidate getting in the race.
Doc, I completely agree that the rigid social issues have neutered the Republican Party. However, those people aren't going away. They are a huge voting bloc and many of them are voting for Trump and Cruz (and Carson for that matter). I think Trump has just "played the role" of a conservative and honed in on two hot button issue to change the dialogue. It's worked.
My single biggest issue with him (and this is a huge can of worms) is that I think he plays on the bigotry and racism that still exists in America. I'm starting to honestly believe that. Forget the KKK stuff. But his comments about women, Mexicans, Native Americans and Muslims are striking a chord for a lot of people. And I'm not sure it's a good chord.
It depends what you consider good, I guess.
The way I see it is he's exposed exactly how much bigotry is still alive in this country. I knew it was still prevalent, especially in the South, but the amount of unbridled hate that people around his campaign feel comfortable with showing publically is incredible. I have a hard time believing Trump himself believes in all of this garbage himself, but is enough of an opportunist to play it for a nomination.
I'm not all that worked up about the bigotry and racism stuff. Heck, for the last 8 years I've been called a racist by the President, and its like water on a duck's back.... or Bill Clinton after a session with a white house intern..... it just rolls off.
Over the last few days I've chuckled over the KKK thing. Disavow David Duke and the KKK? Why? Duke said he liked Trump. OK. Its not like they are buddies and friends. Its not like Trump is looking at Duke to be his running mate because they share ideas. Trump has no control over who says they like him. Duke has every right to support whomever he wants. As for the KKK, Trump wasn't in the KKK so why would he disavow something he never vowed to? The definition of disavow is to disclaim knowledge of, connection with, or responsibility for; disown; repudiate:-- None of those pertain to Trump. He has no connection to the KKK nor is he responsible for the KKK. So what exactly is he "disavowing"?
What some see as bigotry and racism I see as bluntness and lack of political correctness. Of course being a New Yorker, 99% of what he says is mild compared to what most New Yorkers say. He has never stated minorities are "lesser", only that he wants them to follow the same rules others do. Much of his appeal to others is his brashness and willingness to say what he believes. Personally I'm not all that fond of how he says things. Hey, I agree Rosie O'Donnell is a fat pig but I wish he would say it publicly... and saying that doesn't mean he hates women, just Rosie O'Donnell. The guy has hammered, Jeb Bush, Cruz and Rubio too. He is an equal opportunity insulter. Now if he just insulted women or blacks or hispanics, etc... then maybe he could be called a racist but that isn't the case. Now don't get me wrong, I'm NOT a Trump supporter. He isn't my first choice, or my second, third or fourth one either. But he isn't the LAST choice.
Last edited by Doc; 03-02-2016 at 04:26 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
I would like to see Kasich run as VP if the The Donald gets the nomination. That should placate party leaders and give Trump a solid running mate who can handle the tasks he is delegated. (You will see a working VP if Trump is elected).
With all due respect to UK History, I agree we should never shut down the government. What we need is about a 25% reduction if the Federal Government work force.
I have to take exception to your pejorative comment about the south. People frequently say what you have posted. But racism is likely much worse in places like Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, and Massachusetts. Boston and Detroit areas are two of the worst I have ever experienced. I remember as a kid Dearborn Michigan was horrible. It was all white and racial profiling was a way of life for anyone of color driving through town. Today Gross Pointe is much the same. Boston may still be one of the most racist places in the World. They still like their athletes white in Boston. Black athletes in Boston until the last few years have never been embraced by New Englanders. And while we are at it remember the white cops in Cleveland and Chicago. And does anyone believe there was no racism in Ferguson, MO?
And let's not forget the racism that exists in many large cities such as Baltimore and other cities that are predominantly African American. It goes both ways. Let's put an end to the comments about racism in the South. Racism isn't just about the South. It's just convenient for some to paint it that way. It would be very interesting to study the Trump vote in Massachusetts to see why people there flocked to the Donald.
In Urban parts of Detroit Michigan it's far more than black/white. The middle eastern population has brought a new level of racial hatred to that area.
You are absolutely correct COAHTR. The population of Dearborn is not almost 100% Middle Eastern.
Man. This is why I usually stay away from this part of the board.
I don't just say that willy-nilly repeating stereotypes. I say I knew about it. That's because most of my family are from different areas in the south and many of them, my own father included, are openly racist. It's less about black people than it is middle easterners.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Also, what my post was meant to say, perhaps I wasn't clear, is that I knew of what I had seen in the south, but this campaign has shown it to be endemic throughout the country. It's clearly not isolated in the "SEC states."
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I've had to work there in a few instances. It can seem like another country. It got to the point I'd bring my passport and go to Windsor Ontario to eat dinner and for entertainment.
IMHO barring unforeseen circumstances*, we're looking at 2 terms of Hillary Clinton. Trump will split the party (to get a small taste, go on Twitter and search #nevertrump) and insure an HRC election. If the GOP actually tries what is IMHO a cockeyed strategy of denying Trump enough delegates to win and then throwing it to someone other than Trump at the convention, that will also splinter the party and throw it to HRC.
*--Unforeseen circumstances, like an HRC indictment after her IT guy gets granted immunity. I wonder what Joe Biden must be thinking about his decision not to run....
U really think players are going to duke without being paid over Kentucky?--Gilbert Arenas, 9/12/19
Then today, Mitt come out and blasts Trump. Too bad Mitt didn't have enough hair on his manhood do to that 4 years ago vs Obama. If he had, perhaps he would have won. Funny that he has the stones to attack a Republican candidate but didn't have the stones to attack a democratic one. THAT tells you a whole lot about the GOP establishment and it pretty much describes why the electorate is so disgusted with them. They will coddle to the left but attack one of the own.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
Racism just exists. Not everyone, and for the most part, most people in this country don't ascribe to that nonsense.
But some do. We see it a lot more now than we used to, but we also have more interactive media available to us now than at any other time in our history.
From my point of view, I don't think it's Americans so much as others coming into our country and bringing their deep-rooted prejudices with them from wherever they're coming in from.
Most of the racial comments that I hear come from minorities that have contact with the judicial system.
MOLON LABE!
With all of the talk of a "brokered convention" that is being tossed about, it would not surprise me in the least to find out that the D's & the R's ARE WORKING TOGETHER ON THIS, and should that turn out to be the case, then it is proof that we as American citizens have no say in this election. If the voting public decides they want Trump as their GOP nominee, then I want to believe the matter has been settled. But should that not be the case, then it is my opinion that something else needs to happen, for better or for worse. And if the GOP & the RNC decide that is the route they're going to take, then the consequences for them needs to be bad and ugly.
MOLON LABE!
Most likely scenario in my opinion.IMHO barring unforeseen circumstances*, we're looking at 2 terms of Hillary Clinton. Trump will split the party (to get a small taste, go on Twitter and search #nevertrump) and insure an HRC election. If the GOP actually tries what is IMHO a cockeyed strategy of denying Trump enough delegates to win and then throwing it to someone other than Trump at the convention, that will also splinter the party and throw it to HRC.
*--Unforeseen circumstances, like an HRC indictment after her IT guy gets granted immunity. I wonder what Joe Biden must be thinking about his decision not to run....
If our votes and our wishes as American citizens no longer matter, then the politicians don't matter either, and it's way past time to deal with them. Harshly.
I know many of you do not or will not agree with me about this. Many of you may advocate "working this out somehow". But if they deny the American people their choice of representation to lead this nation in the White House, then it means our government no longer represents us or our best interests anymore. That means we don't matter anymore. I am not willing to accept that. Are you?
MOLON LABE!
Throughout the past few weeks, "establishment" is a word that has been thrown around a lot. I don't consider Mitt "establishment". He's never held office. He is a businessman. In fact, every single elected official did something for work the day before they were elected. If Trump were to become President, he will be a "politician" the next day.
And I also don't buy that Trump isn't beholden to anyone just because he is self-funding his campaign. That guy has deals and loyalty to a lot of people, businesses, etc.
~Puma~
I thought this was an excellent article on how Rubio and Cruz can BOTH stop Trump and allow voters to decide who wins. I would prefer it be Rubio and Kasich, but not sure that combo would be enough.
I have heard many say that these guys should "work together", but this lays out exactly how they could do that and honor voters wishes.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...uz-marco-rubio
~Puma~
Mitt's never held federal office, but was Massachusetts Governor from 03-07.
However, I do agree that "establishment" is thrown around too much. It's usually used as "any candidate with whom I disagree," when everybody knows the proper definition is "anyone named Bush."
U really think players are going to duke without being paid over Kentucky?--Gilbert Arenas, 9/12/19
We aren't going to see a brokered convention. When you get to the winner take all states Trump is going to roll in a bunch of delegates fast.
BE, that was the Clinton/Trump plan from the beginning. Unfortunately the American people are to stupid, dense, or don't care about the fact that she is a criminal that should not be allowed to run for office.IMHO barring unforeseen circumstances*, we're looking at 2 terms of Hillary Clinton. Trump will split the party (to get a small taste, go on Twitter and search #nevertrump) and insure an HRC election. If the GOP actually tries what is IMHO a cockeyed strategy of denying Trump enough delegates to win and then throwing it to someone other than Trump at the convention, that will also splinter the party and throw it to HRC.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
I do not see it happening, but could fully support the idea. Like you though, I wish Kasich was teamed with Rubio in that scenario.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
Duh, totally forgot he was governor.Mitt's never held federal office, but was Massachusetts Governor from 03-07.
However, I do agree that "establishment" is thrown around too much. It's usually used as "any candidate with whom I disagree," when everybody knows the proper definition is "anyone named Bush."
I have more than a few friends who believe the Trump phenomenon is a Trojan horse for the Democrats. I think Trump started it for attention and it took hold and he ran with it. Hollywood could have never sold the script.
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