I think this makes perfect sense. Somewhere you need a scorer. He may not be able to score every time, but if your offense is struggling, he can create a shot and get a bucket or two or three or four and open the offense up. Even in 1998, when we say that we had no elite players, I think we had that type of player in Jeff Sheppard, and maybe to a lesser extent, Wayne Turner. Nazr Mohammed and Scott Padgett averaged more points, but Sheppard and Turner could create.
For next year's team, if you made me rank the players that I think that could fill this role, in order, this is what I would say:
1. Allen - he showed he could drive the ball, has good height and extension, and got shots off quickly last year (because he was forced to do so, albeit not very successfully at times). I suspect he will have a nice jump this year and an even quicker shot.
2. Oscar T. - Big, strong, can score the ball, and mature. Also has something to prove this year. And you know that Cal likes that inside presence. Yes, I hate to put him up this high, but past experience tells me he will get a long look.
3. Brooks - many people are suggesting he's going to make a substantial jump his junior year. If he does, he could be that go to guy. Right now, I'm kind of reserving judgment. He has had games where I thought he would be the guy, and then he has games where he has disappeared. If you're going to be the guy, you can't disappear.
4. Wheeler - much less confidence with him, but he is a wildcard. Everyone points to his poor shooting, but he shot fairly well his freshman year, and had a terrible year last year. Which is emblematic of the player? I concede that there is a healthy dose of hopefulness in this selection, because if he is "the guy" then this team could be really good. I don't have a lot of confidence in this selection.
5. Toppin - I keep looking at his brother and thinking, "why not him?" I refuse to mark him off as a player with a high ceiling. If he become 60% of what his brother was in college, he could be the go to guy.
6. Mintz - leading scorer from last year, and I place him after the top five. I'm not sure if that's a good sign or a bad sign, but I am hopeful that's a good sign. I like the player, but I don't see the same qualities in him as other players that are "go to" guys.
It is interesting to me after I made the selections I thought about them. I selected six guys with experience. I wasn't looking for experience, but talent that could create their own shot. I think that speaks to the fact that we have a lot of experience on next year's team, or perhaps it speaks to the fact that I don't know what the heck I'm talking about. And both could be true.
Totally agree with Shepherd and Turner above. It was definitely a different era...more of a transition from a big man game to a guard game. But man they made some big plays at key moments.
I do think Oscar T will be a go to scorer for us. But, I just think Bigs are too easily double teamed, etc these days. I think it's easier to shut a big down at the end of a game in college. So, he wouldn't be nearly as high on my list in this particular discussion (even though I think he could easily lead us in scoring) especially since he doesn't really do anything off the dribble.
For me, guys that could fit this role:
1. Mintz - I have seen him do it. So that weighs heavily for me.
2. Grady - He is not a blow by guy but I think he is someone who has a super high IQ and can create enough room for his shot.
3. TyTy - I don't trust freshmen in the tourney...but he has the skill set.
4. Allen - What you said above.
5. Brooks
It is all a fun discussion and I certainly don't know either way. But, it is my biggest concern for this team having title hopes.
Were Mercer and Anderson elite super stars in 1997? I guess one could make an argument that they were and they were definitely outstanding players, but I do not think that either of them were in Anthony Davis category either.
They absolutely were. I always tell the story of talking trash on the Chicago trading floors about UK and that I thought DA was the best player in the country and Mercer wasn’t far behind.
Duncan was the consensus #1 player, until mid season and the Chicago Tribune put out their mid season POY that was Anderson. My trash talking went to the next level, and then he tore his ACL.
Well, I shouldn't have used the word elite. It communicates something I don't mean to.
Many UK fans define elite as a lotto pick. And that isn't what I mean.
For instance, Devin Booker was a lotto pick. But he was not elite in college. He just had tons of upside. And he is now an elite NBA player.
For me, what it takes to win it all is a guy who can get his own shot and put his team on his back. THAT is what UK is possibly missing (and one reason I think Mintz coming back is so important).
Every single one of those teams you list above had one of those guys. They were not "elite" if you define it as someone who is a lotto pick. But they are a super college player who can create their own shot and win a game or two when needed.
2010 Duke = Nolan Smith (yes, seriously).
2013 UL = Russ Smith
2016 Nova = Josh Hart
2017 UNC = Joel Berry
2018 Nova = Jalen Brunson
2019 Virginia = Kyle Guy
Most of those guys are not "elite" in the sense of NBA potential. But all of them were fantastic college players who carried their teams for a few games in the tourney. And they are all guards. And the tourney is all about the guards. And none of them are freshmen.
Can Brooks be that guy? Maybe?? But he really struggles to create his own shot. Mintz definitely could be if he returns. He hit some huge shots for us this past year and just plays with ice in his veins late in games. And he is capable of creating on his own. I can easily see him have a Kyle Guy/Joel Berry type influence on our team.
None of the listed guys are elite talents, but that has become the norm over the last decade plus. Championship teams are not dependent upon having a Carmelo, but are dependent upon having a team of good college players with chemistry.
The chemistry being built at this very moment and through next March is going to be the most important ingredient for the 2022 post season. Cal has assembled his most proven group of collegiate players since arriving at Kentucky. The big questions revolve around playing as a team and playing for each other, what player(s) take the leadership reigns, what player(s) rise(s) to the top and becomes “the guy” when baskets are needed.
That last one regarding who can be “the guy” could be debated until the season begins. Does Grady maintain or eclipse his Davidson accomplishments, or is his personality one that is more prone to blending in like Reid Travis? Does Mintz return and continue the trajectory he was on over the last month of last season? Do we have a returning player like Allen or Brooks make the IQ/PJ jump? Does Oscar become the beast he can be in an offense that creates space for him? Does Jacob make the Obi jump? Does TyTy come in and score the ball like Malik Monk, Cam Thomas or Moses Moody have done in recent seasons? Does someone that hasn’t been mentioned become a clutch player?
2010 Duke
2013 UL
2016 Nova
2017 UNC
2018 Nova
2019 Virginia
Unsure Shabazz Napier was an elite player in 2014 either
Darryl
Other schools have their systems and how they are best suited to win. They ALL had NBA ready players, which is more of what I think is necessary to win a championship.
It’s not about the other schools, though. It’s about what it takes for UK to win a championship, as you have made those points as to what the commonalities are in UK championship teams. The only title he has won was because he had, as Oscar Combs freely admits, the best player to ever wear the UK Jersey.
With Cal as our coach, the only teams that fit that championship criteria are also the ones that have elite players. Cal has yet to prove that he can win without it, really to even reach a FF.
He’s going to get his chance to prove it this year.
They absolutely were. I always tell the story of talking trash on the Chicago trading floors about UK and that I thought DA was the best player in the country and Mercer wasn’t far behind.
Duncan was the consensus #1 player, until mid season and the Chicago Tribune put out their mid season POY that was Anderson. My trash talking went to the next level, and then he tore his ACL.
I think Dan was referring to the offseason after the 96 title. In 1996 they averaged 9 and 8 points, combined they had one 20 point game the entire 95-96 season, and that was Mercer in the Syracuse title game. The next season their production went way up to around 18 points each, Anderson was at around 20 ppg when he hurt his knee.
The 1998 team entered the season with one player who had a collegiate season with a double digit scoring average, and that was Heshimu Evans at Manhattan.
Other schools have their systems and how they are best suited to win. They ALL had NBA ready players, which is more of what I think is necessary to win a championship.
It’s not about the other schools, though. It’s about what it takes for UK to win a championship, as you have made those points as to what the commonalities are in UK championship teams. The only title he has won was because he had, as Oscar Combs freely admits, the best player to ever wear the UK Jersey.
With Cal as our coach, the only teams that fit that championship criteria are also the ones that have elite players. Cal has yet to prove that he can win without it, really to even reach a FF.
He’s going to get his chance to prove it this year.
Davis did what a lot of OAD players do in their final college game, he laid an egg. 1-10 from the field, six points. The guy that came up biggest in that game fits the profile of a lot of other guys that have led their teams to the title over the last decade. Doron Lamb scored 22 points on 7-12 from the field and 3-6 from behind the arc.
Davis had a great season, but like almost every OAD player his last college game featured awful shooting.
He had an awful shooting game, but 16 rebounds, 5 assists and 6 blocked shots (plus at least 1 memorable intimidated shot) was far from laying an egg.
Originally Posted by KeithKSR
Davis did what a lot of OAD players do in their final college game, he laid an egg. 1-10 from the field, six points. The guy that came up biggest in that game fits the profile of a lot of other guys that have led their teams to the title over the last decade. Doron Lamb scored 22 points on 7-12 from the field and 3-6 from behind the arc.
Davis had a great season, but like almost every OAD player his last college game featured awful shooting.
It is definitely true that most college teams win the title without an NBA lotto pick. Those are just statistical facts.
But they almost all have a guy that can create his own shot and take over games late. I am not sure we have that but certainly hope we do.
And Cal has not made a Final Four in his career without an NBA lotto pick. In fact, he hasn't made a Final Four without a Top 7 pick (all others were #1....Randle being #7). So that is also true.....Cal has to prove HE can do that without one.
It will be very interesting to see how this year's team does because it is so vastly different than anything Cal has had in the past.
Last season will be the lowest any UK player under Cal has ever been drafted (wherever Jackson goes) and that didn't turn out well.
Cal has always been an elite recruiter. The knock on him has been that he is only as good of a coach as his team is talented. We shall see if he can prove that wrong this season. I have no doubt we will be better because this team is just much more balanced. Time will tell if Cal can coach them into a Top 10 team.
He had an awful shooting game, but 16 rebounds, 5 assists and 6 blocked shots (plus at least 1 memorable intimidated shot) was far from laying an egg.
Yep, offensively it was an ostrich sized egg. His offense gave KU a lot of opportunities to cut into the lead as he seemed to be forcing a lot of shots. Think about it, he missed more shots in that one game than he averaged taking on the season.
The rest of the team shot a respectable 48%, with AD’s shooting it dropped to a tepid 41%.
He had an awful shooting game, but 16 rebounds, 5 assists and 6 blocked shots (plus at least 1 memorable intimidated shot) was far from laying an egg.
Beat me to it.
He was unstoppable on the defensive end, and it wasn't like he was taking bad shots, just one of those nights where the ball didn't go through the hoop.
It is definitely true that most college teams win the title without an NBA lotto pick. Those are just statistical facts.
But they almost all have a guy that can create his own shot and take over games late. I am not sure we have that but certainly hope we do.
And Cal has not made a Final Four in his career without an NBA lotto pick. In fact, he hasn't made a Final Four without a Top 7 pick (all others were #1....Randle being #7). So that is also true.....Cal has to prove HE can do that without one.
It will be very interesting to see how this year's team does because it is so vastly different than anything Cal has had in the past.
Last season will be the lowest any UK player under Cal has ever been drafted (wherever Jackson goes) and that didn't turn out well.
Cal has always been an elite recruiter. The knock on him has been that he is only as good of a coach as his team is talented. We shall see if he can prove that wrong this season. I have no doubt we will be better because this team is just much more balanced. Time will tell if Cal can coach them into a Top 10 team.
What UK player went #1 in 2011? I was thinking Kyrie was the top pick that season. Knight was the highest pick from among the guys that played on that team at #8. 8 is definitely lower than 7.
He was unstoppable on the defensive end, and it wasn't like he was taking bad shots, just one of those nights where the ball didn't go through the hoop.
Missing shots is what loses those type of games. In the Final Four the team that makes shots wins.
What UK player went #1 in 2011? I was thinking Kyrie was the top pick that season. Knight was the highest pick from among the guys that played on that team at #8. 8 is definitely lower than 7.
Ah yes. Nice catch.
So a re-phrase. Cal hasn't made a Final Four without a Top 8 player (as opposed to Top 7).
It is definitely true that most college teams win the title without an NBA lotto pick. Those are just statistical facts.
But they almost all have a guy that can create his own shot and take over games late. I am not sure we have that but certainly hope we do.
And Cal has not made a Final Four in his career without an NBA lotto pick. In fact, he hasn't made a Final Four without a Top 7 pick (all others were #1....Randle being #7). So that is also true.....Cal has to prove HE can do that without one.
It will be very interesting to see how this year's team does because it is so vastly different than anything Cal has had in the past.
Last season will be the lowest any UK player under Cal has ever been drafted (wherever Jackson goes) and that didn't turn out well.
Cal has always been an elite recruiter. The knock on him has been that he is only as good of a coach as his team is talented. We shall see if he can prove that wrong this season. I have no doubt we will be better because this team is just much more balanced. Time will tell if Cal can coach them into a Top 10 team.
That also includes at Memphis and UMass.
The other side of that coin, though, is that Cal was brought in to bring in the best talent (to make UK the "it school" after Tubby & BCG), hang banners, AND win championship(s). I would love to see Cal do that with a team that does not have the best talent, but I prefer the method that works best for him.
Missing shots is what loses those type of games. In the Final Four the team that makes shots wins.
Yes, but not when you are making up for it (and more so) defensively. Even in the postgame interview, AD acknowledged that he didn't have it offensively and for guys not to look for him, but he'll get it done on the defensive end. He did, and we won a championship.
If you are saying that he was a net negative, or even a net neutral in THAT game, that is certainly something that I do not agree with and I would expect that it would be a very minority opinion.
Was AD the player of the game? Probably not, but they were not winning the game without him.
I would love to see Cal do that with a team that does not have the best talent, but I prefer the method that works best for him.
I would too, as it would prove to me that he is a better bench coach and a better practice teacher than I think he is, and also give me more hope that he can do it again before he recruits another #1 class of green high school phenoms.
I do too as he will likely sit down on the bench and wipe his forehead with his towel more than stand up and dance and yell like a banshee for most of the game.
I think you have to balance what Cal did then with what works now. If Suggs gets drafted top 5 won’t he be the first top 5 pick to play in the Final Four since 2015?
Yes, but not when you are making up for it (and more so) defensively. Even in the postgame interview, AD acknowledged that he didn't have it offensively and for guys not to look for him, but he'll get it done on the defensive end. He did, and we won a championship.
If you are saying that he was a net negative, or even a net neutral in THAT game, that is certainly something that I do not agree with and I would expect that it would be a very minority opinion.
Was AD the player of the game? Probably not, but they were not winning the game without him.
I’m saying that AD had an awful shooting game, 1-10 was the nadir of his freshman season from the field. No one claims that Brandon Knight’s 5 assists and 8 rebounds qualifies for a great game when he was 6-23 from the field. Both had terrible shooting nights in their final games.
The whole point being ignored by the rush to proclaim AD’s game was great against KU is that it was the steady influence of the veteran, Lamb, who came up big in the finale. Teams that win titles have veterans that come up big in the Final Four. It’s the way it has been throughout most of the OAD era.
Teams that win titles have veterans that come up big in the Final Four. It’s the way it has been throughout most of the OAD era.
You know you won’t get an argument from me on this.
I swear you have debated this exact point with me countless times over the last few years but maybe I’m just remembering incorrectly.
Either way, YES!
Articles by Category
KSR Twitter Feed
vBulletin Message