Riley Gaines on Tucker Carlson

[Doc]

If you missed it, bummer. Had her on as the Kentucky nominee for "NCAA Woman of the Year", to get her feelings on Leah Thomas' nomination by Penn.

Gaines noted the other deserving UK females (R. Howard and A. Steiner), and how her nomination, albeit deserving, may have a political aspect due to the transgenderism making a mockery (her term) of her sport and title IX. She gave a shout out to the SEC for their transgender ruling. The interviewer then promoted UK as a school to attend. UK and Gaines came out looking very good

[Basket Case]

If you missed it, bummer. Had her on as the Kentucky nominee for "NCAA Woman of the Year", to get her feelings on Leah Thomas' nomination by Penn.

Gaines noted the other deserving UK females (R. Howard and A. Steiner), and how her nomination, albeit deserving, may have a political aspect due to the transgenderism making a mockery (her term) of her sport and title IX. She gave a shout out to the SEC for their transgender ruling. Carlson then promoted UK as a school to attend. UK and Gaines came out looking very good

Howard and Steiner certainly are more deserving based on what they did in their athletic careers, imo. It did, however, take courage for her to speak out as almost all others would not.

I am still a little puzzled by 2 things: 1) That someone with a penis can even be nominated for Woman of the Year, and 2) That ANY woman would be ok with this.

[MickintheHam]

Howard and Steiner certainly are more deserving based on what they did in their athletic careers, imo. It did, however, take courage for her to speak out as almost all others would not.

I am still a little puzzled by 2 things: 1) That someone with a penis can even be nominated for Woman of the Year, and 2) That ANY woman would be ok with this.

I thought you might be puzzled by how men could be the birthing person.

[catmanjack]

Just the same as placing a male is a woman’s prison and asking how he got two females pregnant! Wow what a country of great minds we live in.

[Terry Blue]

It will continue as long as we're teaching little kids they have a choice of whether they think they're a boy or a girl

[Doc]

Howard and Steiner certainly are more deserving based on what they did in their athletic careers, imo. It did, however, take courage for her to speak out as almost all others would not.

I am still a little puzzled by 2 things: 1) That someone with a penis can even be nominated for Woman of the Year, and 2) That ANY woman would be ok with this.

In part but I believe that her stance and willingness to stand up against this crap elevates her to some degree. Again, she did note her nomination was in part political, but kudos to UK for doing it, for not bowing to the mob...and to Gaines for seeing that. IMO that makes her more deserving as she is willing to take a pro-woman stance. Maybe when mediocre men start dominating women's basketball and Howard takes a stance, or when males start blowing away women's track record and Steiner takes a stance, they too will get bonus points.

But the point isn't a debate of best women athlete at UK. It is "Woman of the Year". For me I take into account more than just on field (or court, track, pool) accomplishments. She came across very positive for both herself and the school.

[UKRxman93]

In part but I believe that her stance and willingness to stand up against this crap elevates her to some degree. Again, she did note her nomination was in part political, but kudos to UK for doing it, for not bowing to the mob...and to Gaines for seeing that. IMO that makes her more deserving as she is willing to take a pro-woman stance. Maybe when mediocre men start dominating women's basketball and Howard takes a stance, or when males start blowing away women's track record and Steiner takes a stance, they too will get bonus points.

But the point isn't a debate of best women athlete at UK. It is "Woman of the Year". For me I take into account more than just on field (or court, track, pool) accomplishments. She came across very positive for both herself and the school.

Exactly! Agree 100%!

[Catfan73]

Personally I could not care less whether someone wants to be male or female. If they want to compete in a sport however it should be in the men’s division, whether it’s male to female or female to male.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Shouldn't this conversation be on a different board?

[bigsky]

It is a UK sports figure.

A 1968 medals podium or a 1936 Olympics sprinter, sports and politics. I see Jim Thorpe got his first place finishes restored.

Many times sports figures helped lead the revolution. I hope Riley Gaines is successful too.

[KSRBEvans]

It's a UK sports figure but the topic is teetering on the edge of being less about UK sports and more about politics. May end up being moved--we'll see.

[CitizenBBN]

Personally I could not care less whether someone wants to be male or female. If they want to compete in a sport however it should be in the men’s division, whether it’s male to female or female to male.

The best solution I've seen posted is to have a Women's division and an Open division. Everyone who is a girl (using the definition we all know, not the made up "identity" one) is in Women's. Everyone else is in Open.

That's fair. It's patently unfair for biological men with a man's physical development to compete against biological women who lack that extra strength.

That way no one is being defined beyond being female at birth, and it levels the physical playing field.

of course if that was the case this guy who broke all those records in women's swimming would be finishing middle of the pack just like he was before he crossed over.

[LakeCat]

She looked great with the UK swim and dive shirt on. Definitely a great image for UK on National TV.

[Doc]

Shouldn't this conversation be on a different board?

No. The discussion is about a UK athlete, her potential award, and her stance as it relates to SPORTS

Here is cool idea... if it says "Tucker Carlson" in the thread title, maybe you should not click on it

[CatQuick]

No. The discussion is about a UK athlete, her potential award, and her stance as it relates to SPORTS

Here is cool idea... if it says "Tucker Carlson" in the thread title, maybe you should not click on it

Agree. It's the approach I've taken to any thread title that has Rex Chapman in it. Now if also said is going back to jail I might click on it.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

It's patently unfair for biological men with a man's physical development to compete against biological women who lack that extra strength.

Sure, it is. However, that is not what is happening. I believe that the rules say that you must start HRT by the age of 12. We were all 12 once, and one of the things I remember about being 12 is that I was nowhere near a man. The other thing that I remember is that 12 year old females were much more physically advanced. So, if you are under the age of 12 and are on HRT, it is impossible to physically develop as a male.

Another thing, I do know a thing or two about HRT because I have actually spoken to trans parents, trans children, trans adults and one thing that I can is that hormones change your body, and if your body never developed the physical traits of your assigned gender at birth, unless you stop taking those hormones.

I'm not going to pretend that I have the answers to this complicated issue, but I do find it interesting that a lot of people only care when the trans person wins. I never really hear that much outrage when the trans kid is not competitive, which is mostly the case. The other thing that I know for a fact is that most people that have an opinion on this do not understand the facts and are simply passing judgment based on their own beliefs and biases.

So, back to the eligibility thing for a moment, and if I am right and it is an under-12 rule, and the athlete can prove that they are up to date with their hormones, they are not physically developed as their gender identified at birth. So, if there is no advantage, then I see no logical reason to exclude them from competing in the gender for which they identify. Anything else? Absolutely, and maybe some "open gender sport" may be appropriate. Honestly, this is a topic that I don't like to touch with a 10-ft pole, but it is worth pointing out errors.

[Darrell KSR]

Shouldn't this conversation be on a different board?

The way we've always handled it is like this.

If it involves a UK player, staff, etc., as long as the discussion centers around their actions, comments, etc., we discuss it here.

When it evolves into a discussion of the politics involved and the underlying merits debated of the topic, it gets moved to the proper forum. It almost always does sooner or later. I don't think it hurts much to err on the side of leaving it here a little longer than switching it immediately because of the strong connection to Kentucky athletics though, plus, it's July. That's not a free pass to discuss whatever, but there is more leeway given the season.

I was kinda thinking about moving it tomorrow myself if nobody else moved it beforehand.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

The way we've always handled it is like this.

If it involves a UK player, staff, etc., as long as the discussion centers around their actions, comments, etc., we discuss it here.

When it evolves into a discussion of the politics involved and the underlying merits debated of the topic, it gets moved to the proper forum. It almost always does sooner or later. I don't think it hurts much to err on the side of leaving it here a little longer than switching it immediately because of the strong connection to Kentucky athletics though, plus, it's July. That's not a free pass to discuss whatever, but there is more leeway given the season.

I was kinda thinking about moving it tomorrow myself if nobody else moved it beforehand.

Totally get that, and that’s been a practice that has I have recognized for years, but besides who did the interview, there was no ties or impact to UK athletics.

Having said that, I think people practiced enough restraint to at least keep it within a reasonable bounds not to be moved, even though it has very little to do with anything impacting UK. 😉

Thanks!

[StuBleedsBlue2]

No. The discussion is about a UK athlete, her potential award, and her stance as it relates to SPORTS

Here is cool idea... if it says "Tucker Carlson" in the thread title, maybe you should not click on it

Here’s a better idea. If you have an urge to post Tucker Carlson in the thread title, perhaps have some respect for those that might think it’s political and put it on a different board.

Tucker has nothing to do with UK and is purely being political in anything he does.

[Doc]

And the thread has nothing to do with him, only listed as the source, much like an article in "the Athletic" would list "the Athletic" as the source.. He was mentioned nowhere in the thread other than my referral to the title. The conversation revolves around a UK athlete her recognition and her opinions on her sport.... thus appropriate for a UK Sports forum. I only included it the title so somebody like you could bypass if you saw fit do do so.


So quit acting like a 3 yr old

[CitizenBBN]

I believe that the rules say that you must start HRT by the age of 12.

Not the case AFAIK. Lia Thomas didn't start taking any T-blockers or suppression until 2019.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/s...ns-sports.html

Per the NCAA guidelines of 2011 which were just now updated in response to this, there were no requirements to suppress Testosterone, etc.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/inc...erHandbook.pdf


I don't have time to deep dive on this right now, but as I understand it the new NCAA rules allow it to be set by sport, which basically means there may or may not be any standards for testosterone.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dawnsta...h=6126212234db


So for my quick search I find nothing that shows that someone has to make this decision before they hit puberty and their body development kicks in. Lia Thomas didn't start to transition until he/she was already on a college swim team, and clearly in top male physical condition.

[Doc]

A couple Larry Vaught articles. The second one offers quite a bit that I was unaware of...... and I think somewhat important

https://www.yoursportsedge.com/2022/...s/larryvaught/

https://www.yoursportsedge.com/2022/...s/larryvaught/

[goodycat]

It’s a brand new rule put in place by swimming’s international body. Now you have to prove you did not go through male puberty (by transitioning before you are 12) in order to be a biological male permitted to compete as a female. As a result, Lia Thomas will not be permitted to compete in the Olympics.

https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2022/...rs-policy/amp/

Not the case AFAIK. Lia Thomas didn't start taking any T-blockers or suppression until 2019.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/s...ns-sports.html

Per the NCAA guidelines of 2011 which were just now updated in response to this, there were no requirements to suppress Testosterone, etc.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/inc...erHandbook.pdf


I don't have time to deep dive on this right now, but as I understand it the new NCAA rules allow it to be set by sport, which basically means there may or may not be any standards for testosterone.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dawnsta...h=6126212234db


So for my quick search I find nothing that shows that someone has to make this decision before they hit puberty and their body development kicks in. Lia Thomas didn't start to transition until he/she was already on a college swim team, and clearly in top male physical condition.

[Doc]

It’s a brand new rule put in place by swimming’s international body. Now you have to prove you did not go through male puberty (by transitioning before you are 12) in order to be a biological male permitted to compete as a female. As a result, Lia Thomas will not be permitted to compete in the Olympics.

https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2022/...rs-policy/amp/

Does the international rule apply to the collegiate level?

I am old enough to recall the "East German Women's Swim Team" in the Olympics. It was always a joke as most had beards

[goodycat]

I believe the NCAA ruled earlier this year that each sport would follow the rules of that sport’s international body on this issue. Therefore, this would apply to collegiate swimming.

[Catfan73]

A couple Larry Vaught articles. The second one offers quite a bit that I was unaware of...... and I think somewhat important

https://www.yoursportsedge.com/2022/...s/larryvaught/

https://www.yoursportsedge.com/2022/...s/larryvaught/

Well that was ridiculous. At the very least they could have had them both on the podium or even taken two sets of pictures.

[KentuckyWildcat]

It’s a brand new rule put in place by swimming’s international body. Now you have to prove you did not go through male puberty (by transitioning before you are 12) in order to be a biological male permitted to compete as a female. As a result, Lia Thomas will not be permitted to compete in the Olympics.

https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2022/...rs-policy/amp/

My cousin had a beard as a 3rd grader.

I guess the rule is better than nothing, but far from perfect.

[Doc]

My cousin had a beard as a 3rd grader.

I guess the rule is better than nothing, but far from perfect.

Hope the other kids did not make fun of her!

[blueboss]

NM


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CitizenBBN]

It’s a brand new rule put in place by swimming’s international body. Now you have to prove you did not go through male puberty (by transitioning before you are 12) in order to be a biological male permitted to compete as a female. As a result, Lia Thomas will not be permitted to compete in the Olympics.

https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2022/...rs-policy/amp/

I saw this later, but that only applies to swimming and only so long I believe as the US swim people don't come out with something different. I only skimmed one article on this which made the point that the NCAA directive is very confusing b/c if the US governing body goes a different way then the NCAA adopts that, if not then the international rules, etc. and so on. It's definitely unclear, esp. being done by sport versus college sports overall.

But it goes to the point of the outrage over Thomas, b/c this rule wasn't in place when he/she competed in college and broke those records. He basically just declared himself a female and started taking the meds, but well after he was a very well developed male athlete. Thus the objection.

Which means we still need an "open" division for people who don't start until they are 13 or 14 or 16, b/c you know it's coming.