OT: Jason Collins Announcement

[MTcatfan]

You know, I just yawn when I hear this type of stuff. So, someone who is an athlete is gay. What's the big deal? I've worked with people all my life who are gay. The only thing of value is the gossip it creates for those who will exploit it for their personal financial gain. That's all SI is doing. Blogs will be full of it for a week and then it dies. I think this was an attempt to get out in front of the NFL's "Big Announcement", which apparently is imminent.

I frankly think it is a shame that people can't live their lives in private as they see fit. I'm still not sure why our entire society now feels compelled to go public with their sexual preferences. It truly does not matter. I don't care. For the record any of us who played HS sports or belongs to the YMCA has taken a shower with someone who is gay. Would knowing specifically who was gay have made a difference in your life? I don't get it.

No it would not have, but really what Jason did is not about your or me, it is about making life better for those that are afraid to be who they are, that is why this is a big deal. When this stuff is brought out into the open, and the MAJORITY yawn like you do, then it shows those that are afraid to be themselves, that it really isn't a big deal. Well in the nonathletic venues we have had plenty of people telling others that it doesn't matter, but we need ATHLETES and more specifically MALE ATHLETES to show it doesn't matter to help those athletes that are suffering with their sexuality to see that it doesn't matter. When we finally get to this point then we won't get stories about athletes coming out.

For the male athlete we need to get to the point where were were a couple weeks ago when Brittney Griner was asked about her sexuality and she was like who cares I have always been out everyone always knew, and it was a story for about 5 seconds. Unfortunately in the male athletic world we are not there yet, and people like Jason Collins are going to help us eventually get to the point that no one actually cares. I mean in the male athletic world we are still at the point where the tabloid media starts a mainstream media buzz when it catches the SON of a male athlete with his male partner. Apparently there has to be an issue when the fact that Magic Johnsons KID makes mainstream news because TMZ takes a picture of him holding his boyfriends hand. When the male athletic world gets to your point Mick, of not caring then a male athletes kid being gay will never even make it to print, but we are not there yet.


(FYI, I am not attacking you Mick at all, I commend your attitude of not caring, I wish more people were like you, I am just explaining I feel you are actually in the minority with this issue)

[TonyRay]

I thought I was going to stay away from this but here it goes. All my Christian life I have been taught it was a sin, whether it is or not is not my judgement but I have also been taught to hate the sin but not the person too. I don't understand it but don't hate someone who is but also think it is ones personal choice. He will be celebrated but not sure why and some will put him up there with the likes of Jackie Robinson but I don't think in today's time it is even close. It doesn't matter to me when I watch someone play sports what their sexual orientation is but rather how well they play. I don't like the term homophobic because I truly don't believe anyone has an actual fear of a homosexual. It is hard for one who leans conservative and is old fashioned in how he thinks one ought to act and work to not be attacked for their views in today's world. Really I just don't care that he came out at this time.

[elicat]

Yep. Anybody remember that gym that ages ago used to be at the intersection of the Circle and Richmond Road? A karate instructor owned it. When I was in Jr. High and High school I used to swim and work out there. There were several then-current NFL players whose homosexuality was an open secret who worked out there. It was not that big a deal. Now people seem to feel that everyone has to acknowledge it or it doesn't quite count. I worked at the old Darryl's restaurant with the wife of one of them, and her affairs with various managers were just as open and just as secret. More or less decent, more or less flawed people just lived their lives. There was not some perfect camelot back in the old days, but at least athletes and others didn't think they had to be on TV or in Sports Illustrated for their private choices to be valid.

[Edward100]

We all know this is a chosen life style by those who practice it. Why do people feel the need to “Come out” at all? I don’t condone being gay any quite frankly don’t want to know who is gay. The people involved know and that should be enough. There is no need to make a statement public or private.

[bigsky]

We all know this is a chosen life style by those who practice it. Why do people feel the need to “Come out” at all? I don’t condone being gay any quite frankly don’t want to know who is gay. The people involved know and that should be enough. There is no need to make a statement public or private.

When did you "choose" to be a heterosexual?

[ukpumacat]

We all know this is a chosen life style by those who practice it.

And there the thread goes.

[MTcatfan]

We all know this is a chosen life style by those who practice it. Why do people feel the need to “Come out” at all? I don’t condone being gay any quite frankly don’t want to know who is gay. The people involved know and that should be enough. There is no need to make a statement public or private.

Really...

[CitizenBBN]

When did you "choose" to be a heterosexual?

I was 15. From time to time I regret it.

[BigBlueBrock]

We all know this is a chosen life style by those who practice it. Why do people feel the need to “Come out” at all? I don’t condone being gay any quite frankly don’t want to know who is gay. The people involved know and that should be enough. There is no need to make a statement public or private.

Actually, no, we don't all know that. Some believe it because it allows them to marginalize, castigate, and/or terrorize a subset of the population they believe to be engaging in "deviant" behavior "because the Bible tells them so." These people choose to be ignorant because it makes their lives more simplistic and easier to understand.

[bigsky]

+1 bbb

[Edward100]

Anything we do is by choice. However, we all have to deal with our choices. A person doesn’t have to get out of bed, eat or do anything but if he does he chooses to do so. A person’s life style is by choice. If it’s not then it is called rape, human trafficking or some other title. Being said he chooses his life style is a true statement, is it not?


There is no need for “Coming out” for any life style including drug abuse, alcoholism or a number of others. I don’t have to answer for anyone’s choices but my own. I really don’t want to know about anyone’s choices if they don’t affect me or my family. “Don’t ask; don’t tell” works for me.

[BigBlueBrock]

Anything we do is by choice. However, we all have to deal with our choices. A person doesn’t have to get out of bed, eat or do anything but if he does he chooses to do so. A person’s life style is by choice. If it’s not then it is called rape, human trafficking or some other title. Being said he chooses his life style is a true statement, is it not?


There is no need for “Coming out” for any life style including drug abuse, alcoholism or a number of others. I don’t have to answer for anyone’s choices but my own. I really don’t want to know about anyone’s choices if they don’t affect me or my family. “Don’t ask; don’t tell” works for me.

This is all wrong.

[TonyRay]

When did you "choose" to be a heterosexual?

When I was a young lad and saw this,
Attachment 2067

I don't think it is a choice, there could be a few but for 99% no, and I don't want to condemn them for it. Hard decision to do so but not nearly as hard as it would have been say his first year in the league and definitely not as hard as it would have been 30-40 years ago.

[MTcatfan]

It is not a choice, period. This is something determined by genetics, and while I truly believe God has a hand in genetics, sexual orientation is determined by genetics.

Let me tell you a story about myself...I am adopted, and at the age of 30 I found my birth parents. When I met my birth mother and we talked about our lives and likes and dislikes, it became apparent to me that genetics have a HUGE factor in determining our lives. Why else is there is woman, who gave birth to me, but I never met for THIRTY years, so similar to myself. She is a history teacher, I came very, very close to becoming a history teacher, but I could get out of UK sooner with a business degree so I went the business route. We both like the same sports, we both have the same interest in history outside our professions, we both read the same authors, we are both very musical, we both love to debate and discuss political and sports issues, and there are tons of other things that we are almost exactly alike. So how in the heck did this happen? Is is coincidence? Was it environment? I don't think so, I grew up in a house where no one was musical, dad was a doctor, mom a homemaker, no one was really that interested in reading for fun, so how would my environment make me who I am? As far as my birth father goes my personality is almost exactly like his, and again environmentally speaking I grew up mostly with my mother, who was a very outgoing Lucielle Ball type personallity, but I am a quiet, reserved person.

So imho, I view so much of myself as determined by genetics, that I just can't believe that something so huge as to sexual orientation is a true "choice", so many trivial things had to have been genetics in my case, that I just can't see anything that isn't trivial about ourselves being a "choice"

I guess to me the only "choice" you have with sexual orientation is you could "choose" to ignore an important part of yourself, but in all reality you are what your body and your mind tells you no matter how you act. To be forced by relationships, religion or society to feel you should "choose" to be what you are not is deplorable to me.

[ukpumacat]

I don't ever visit this particular board, but since I am now engaged in the conversation (from before it was moved) I simply want to add one thing. I hope this discussion does not become a religious one. I say that because when it does, it tends to go downhill very, very quickly. It also tends to get more passionate and hurtful. I know some on here are Christians, and many are not. I simply want to say one thing that there is no way I could defend or explain on a forum (I could in person):
You can absolutely be a Christian and believe the Bible and not hate gay people (not that any on here do), be against gay marriage, or think its a choice (or even a "sin" for that matter). Many people believe that is not a possibility, but it absolutely is.
Just wanted to throw that out there...carry on.

[CGWildcat]

Thanks for the added input Puma. To take it just a step farther......some on here are Christians, and many are not.....as you said. I wonder how many on here (I have no idea nor care either way) are gay and still not out? Could any of our words be hurtful to them and make them more reclusive? Perhaps someone on here looks at Jason Collins as "the" person to make them stand up and speak up for themselves within their lives.

Let's remember our respect for each other and what brings us together as our own little crazy ass community.

I don't ever visit this particular board, but since I am now engaged in the conversation (from before it was moved) I simply want to add one thing. I hope this discussion does not become a religious one. I say that because when it does, it tends to go downhill very, very quickly. It also tends to get more passionate and hurtful. I know some on here are Christians, and many are not. I simply want to say one thing that there is no way I could defend or explain on a forum (I could in person):
You can absolutely be a Christian and believe the Bible and not hate gay people (not that any on here do), be against gay marriage, or think its a choice (or even a "sin" for that matter). Many people believe that is not a possibility, but it absolutely is.
Just wanted to throw that out there...carry on.

[CitizenBBN]

Thanks for the added input Puma. To take it just a step farther......some on here are Christians, and many are not.....as you said. I wonder how many on here (I have no idea nor care either way) are gay and still not out? Could any of our words be hurtful to them and make them more reclusive? Perhaps someone on here looks at Jason Collins as "the" person to make them stand up and speak up for themselves within their lives.

Let's remember our respect for each other and what brings us together as our own little crazy ass community.

It's a dead mortal lock some of our members are gay, and some are not public about it. All but a given statistically.

As for Collins, it's "brave" in that within the profession he works I guarantee there is some strong anti-homosexual sentiment, but obviously outside of that interaction the broader media and such will laud him so he doesn't face complete castigation. So I see it as a mixed bag in terms of "bravery". As for purpose I can't speak to that, only he can.

[Padukacat]

Whether or not one is genetically determined to be something does not necessarily mean they have become such until they act upon it. I do not know this but I would assume there are many Christian people genetically inclined to be homosexuals that have fought the urge because they are committed to their religion, and I would assume those individuals do not want to be called homosexual because they've not acted upon it. Does the mere suppressed desire make them homosexuals? I lived with two twin brothers in college, total opposites and one just came out finally after years of hiding it. Thought that was worth mentioning because its similar to this story. It's a tough situation, even when you aren't in the spotlight. So what do you people say, are you a homosexual if you are not acting on it? Ill hang up and listen I'm really interested in the response because most of the above argument is based upon this answer and I'm not sure we've answered.

[Doc]

I don't understand why anyone needs to "come out". You never hear anyone come out and announce they are straight. I could be wrong but it always appears to be an agenda thing when this occurs.

I'd decided to confess to all on this site that I am ........... heterosexual. Yes, I love a woman with a nice butt and big ol' ######. Please don't hate on me for that.

As for Jason Collins, put me in the category that "couldn't not care less".

[Doc]

Talk to gay people and ask them, it will make a whole lot of sense.

I don't know if I know any "gay people". I'm sure I do, I'm sure I've talked to them but their sexuality has never come up.

[Doc]

Last thing, Marina Navratilova "came out" in 1981....Collins is 2nd.

Several others have "come out". Johnny Weir for example. Here is a list from last year. Brittany Griner a few weeks ago along with several in the WNBA. Earliest reference I could find was Bill Tilden who won Wimbledon in the 20's.

[BigBlueBrock]

Whether or not one is genetically determined to be something does not necessarily mean they have become such until they act upon it. I do not know this but I would assume there are many Christian people genetically inclined to be homosexuals that have fought the urge because they are committed to their religion, and I would assume those individuals do not want to be called homosexual because they've not acted upon it. Does the mere suppressed desire make them homosexuals? I lived with two twin brothers in college, total opposites and one just came out finally after years of hiding it. Thought that was worth mentioning because its similar to this story. It's a tough situation, even when you aren't in the spotlight. So what do you people say, are you a homosexual if you are not acting on it? Ill hang up and listen I'm really interested in the response because most of the above argument is based upon this answer and I'm not sure we've answered.

If you are a man and are exclusively attracted to other men, then you are a homosexual regardless of whether or not you "suppress" your urges in order to conform to backwards religious intolerance.

[Edward100]

This is all wrong.

Please explain that what we do is not by choice. Being forced to do something can’t be in the conversation because it doesn’t give you a choice. A person is shot by a drive-by shooter; the victim doesn’t have a choice. Robbing a bank does give a person a choice to the robber. He has to make the choice and has to live with the consequences. The man who kills the kids in the classroom did so by choice.


A person life style is by choice. If my dad was an alcoholic, does that mean I will be one, too? If my mother was a drug addict, does that mean I have no choice? If I lived in a slum, does that mean I can’t get out and better myself? Absolutely not!

Generics define many of our attributes but our life style is by choice. If not by choice then a person is likely to be in prison of a slave to someone.

[Catmandrew]

We all know this is a chosen life style by those who practice it. Why do people feel the need to “Come out” at all? I don’t condone being gay any quite frankly don’t want to know who is gay. The people involved know and that should be enough. There is no need to make a statement public or private.

FACEPALM......That is all.

[elicat]

You can absolutely be a Christian and believe the Bible and not hate gay people

180px-Capt._Obvious.jpg

[blueboss]

Back in the day I worked in the restaurant and bar biz, most of my stints were behind the bar and on the beverage side. Not trying to stereotype but there were a lot of gay waiters on the food side.

A group of us employees at one particular restaurant get together for brunch quarterly just to stay in touch, just a couple of weeks ago we met for brunch and of course there were a mix of both gays and straights. A conversation was started about the marriage debate and the general consensus amongst the gays was "who cares" - "quit be drama queens and be happy". They also touched on the coming out thing and it was more about being accepted/understood among family members and basically no one cared about what anybody else knows/thinks to make a statement. These guys are all professionals and make very good livings and are very comfortable in their own skin and can navigate just fine in a world with varying degrees of tolerance.

[Edward100]

Back in the day I worked in the restaurant and bar biz, most of my stints were behind the bar and on the beverage side. Not trying to stereotype but there were a lot of gay waiters on the food side.

A group of us employees at one particular restaurant get together for brunch quarterly just to stay in touch, just a couple of weeks ago we met for brunch and of course there were a mix of both gays and straights. A conversation was started about the marriage debate and the general consensus amongst the gays was "who cares" - "quit be drama queens and be happy". They also touched on the coming out thing and it was more about being accepted/understood among family members and basically no one cared about what anybody else knows/thinks to make a statement. These guys are all professionals and make very good livings and are very comfortable in their own skin and can navigate just fine in a world with varying degrees of tolerance.

Exactly, their choice. There is no need to tell the world.

[blueboss]

If I walked into a women's locker room and went into the showers and started showering with the women that were in there showering I would more than likely be arrested and at the very minimum be thrown out with force. What's the difference if a man that is attracted to men like I am attracted to women walks into a men's locker room and begins showering with other men?

Just a question......... I personally would feel as uncomfortable as I imagine a woman would feel if a guy walked into her shower.

[ukpumacat]

Please explain that what we do is not by choice.

Because gay is not something you do...its something you are.
As Brock has already stated: people are not gay because of what they do, they are gay because of who they love, who they are attracted to, and how they feel. At least one of those is not a choice (I would argue more).
I have met several gay virgins. They "choose" not to date, have sex, etc. They don't do so because its wrong (someday they will). They do so because they are focused on work, school, etc. But they are absolutely gay. They would say they are gay. Because they are attracted to the same sex. They didn't choose that. Its just who they are. No more than you chose to be attracted to the opposite sex. You can choose not to date or have sex. That is your choice. But you didn't choose to be attracted to the opposite sex. You just were.

[ukpumacat]

There is no need to tell the world.

If this debate was only about Jason Collins coming out in SI, then you could make an argument on either side of the debate imo of whether he should and what his motivation was. But its not. Other posters made statements about any gay person "coming out".
There is a huge difference in those two things. Jason Collins came out to the "world". You would have to ask him why he did that and what his motivation was.
But, 99% of gay people do not come out to the "world". They typically come out to close family and friends, as they should. And as I have stated before, the reason for that is very, very clear to me.