What are the odds? Car repairs…

[Darrell KSR]

2009 Lexus SUV – brought in for an oil change. I knew that it was also due for a timing belt change, or almost, so I was prepared for that. They said it also needed rear brakes, fine. Then said it needed a rack and pinion replacement because it was leaking and the strut/suspension/bag system underneath needed replacing. Oh when they said that it also needed wiper blades and a fog light replacement. I am embarrassed to tell you what the cost will be for all of this. I'm not sure the car is worth that. I had them do the oil change, light replacement and told them that I would think about the others. My service manager there told me if it was his car he would make a decision within a few weeks, but it would be fine for that period of time.

In the category of "what are the odds," I brought my daughter's 2007 Honda CRV in for the regular oil change. My wife and I have been driving that car a little with my daughter living in NYC as a spare car. They just called to tell me that it needs a rack and pinion replacement because it was leaking. What in the world am I doing to cars for them to need rack and pinion replacement?

[bigsky]

Rack and pinion front end suspension is a thing with Toyotas 150K. . I always poured the steering fluid stop leak in, old Camrys bleeding on the snow.

[Darrell KSR]

It's too late for me now, I suppose, but would that be sort of a preventative, bigsky? Something I should've done, or should do for the next one?

[dan_bgblue]

Blame it on the European car designers. Manual rack and pinion systems are a good design and worked well on the euro light body mini cars and when they invaded the US car builder industry they worked good on the American made pony cars. However when the US builders tried to make them work on our tanks, the R and P systems were not designed with our 5,000 lb autos in mind and they had to be retrofitted with hydraulics so that the normal human driver could turn the wheel with ease. Think of the 1959s US made cars without power steering. American made cars made back then without power steering had steering wheels with giant steering wheels for leverage,, and the ones that had power steering were made with robust parts made of cast iron pumps and high grade steel and worked very well with limited failure issues.

When the fuel shortage issues arose in the 70s, auto makers sought for ways to improve fuel mileage, and they started building everything with as little weight as was possible. Euro R and P systems were not built to be robust and American engineers tried their best to adapt to the euro mini car technology, and the light weight Power assisted R and P systems are what every one is stuck with today. I do not expect any post 1972 auto steering system to last more than 20,000 miles before it starts puking fluid. Some will and some won't, I am just not surprised.

Linkage

[Darrell KSR]

Very interesting history, Dan. Thst makes sense. Doesn't make me feel any better about two in one week, but at least I know why...

[kingcat]

If visiting a dealership a second opinion is obviously a good idea. Because my dealership gave me a complimentary service coupon book with several 9.95 oil changes and an equal amount of 19.95 ones , I have been having my oil changed on a used car I purchased from them over four years ago.

Probably seven or eight changes over that period.

The very first visit they called me in the back and the mechanic had informed them the stabilizer bar was faulty and loose. And that I should not drive it off the lot since within a few miles the whole wheel assembly would fall off causing a serious accident.
My SIL later that day who is a certified mechanic laughed and said they were lying. And that they would continue to do so at the request of the sales department to recoup their loss on the oil changes which was billed to them internally.

Without fail, each and every visit over that last few years I have been told exactly the same thing and other minor issues underneath the vehicle. The last visit I told them to ignore the stabilizer problem the car had when they sold it to me, which they did.

Do not trust the word of a dealers service department. Only your personal mechanic. Never a go between.

I managed a dealer service department many, many years ago. Anything you can remotely justify is fair game, and what a mechanic might do to impress management or up his commission on customer pay tickets is not to be questioned unless it’s blatant.
No matter the dealership.

I left that job for that very reason. Management use to have meetings once a month with all department employees to discuss those very “incentives”

[VirginiaCat]

If visiting a dealership a second opinion is obviously a good idea. Because my dealership gave me a complimentary service coupon book with several 9.95 oil changes and an equal amount of 19.95 ones , I have been having my oil changed on a used car I purchased from them over four years ago.

Probably seven or eight changes over that period.

The very first visit they called me in the back and the mechanic had informed them the stabilizer bar was faulty and loose. And that I should not drive it off the lot since within a few miles the whole wheel assembly would fall off causing a serious accident.
My SIL later that day who is a certified mechanic laughed and said they were lying. And that they would continue to do so at the request of the sales department to recoup their loss on the oil changes which was billed to them internally.

Without fail, each and every visit over that last few years I have been told exactly the same thing and other minor issues underneath the vehicle. The last visit I told them to ignore the stabilizer problem the car had when they sold it to me, which they did.

Do not trust the word of a dealers service department. Only your personal mechanic. Never a go between.

I managed a dealer service department many, many years ago. Anything you can remotely justify is fair game, and what a mechanic might do to impress management or up his commission on customer pay tickets is not to be questioned unless it’s blatant.
No matter the dealership.

I left that job for that very reason. Management use to have meetings once a month with all department employees to discuss those very “incentives”

This.

Find a non-dealershp mechanic and ask for a thorough inspection.

[Darrell KSR]

I'm not using the dealership. This was another car repair shop that focuses on these cars.

[Darrell KSR]

Took my SUV to a Lexus/Toyota specialty shop for a second opinion. Very interesting results. Really liked the guys a lot. Some of the results:

First, background. I have been using the same repair shop for years. They do Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Acura, Audi, Honda, Hyundai, Infiniti, Nissan, Subaru, and Volkswagen. So there's some symmetry there on the type of cars that they service. I had an Infiniti Q45 that they worked on, my son has a Nissan Sentra, my daughter has a Hyundai, and I have two Honda CRVs and a Honda Odyssey minivan. The only one that was bought new was the minivan. So they've done a lot of maintenance and regular servicing, together with repairs when needed.

The place I took the car to is a Lexus/Toyota only place. Nice place downtown. Gives you the feel it will cost you an arm and a leg. By appointment only, and they stay booked for a fairly long time (over a week), which causes me some angst, but it's a small boutique type place, and like a friend told me, if I'm having so many repairs that begins to be a problem, I need to get rid of the car anyway.

Now, with that background, here are the findings:

* First, my timing belt is not due to be changed for another 6000 miles. I think that I had it changed at 95,000 miles the first time rather than 90,000 miles, and my current repair shop just did it based on 180,000 miles. The car has 178,000+ miles now. Anyway, that can wait probably six months easy, because my office is 2.5 miles away from my house and I'm probably not driving 10,000 miles a year on that car. They also took the cover off and took a look at the belt just to make sure that was okay.

* The rack and pinion does not need to be changed yet. There is a small leak, but something they said they meticulously watch and at some point when it starts to get ready for it, they will tell me, "Mr. Cartwright, in the next service or to you need to let us go ahead and change out the rack and pinion." I could not get them to give me an estimate on the time on that but it's not any time soon. They said they typically grade those on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the worst and needing to be changed, and mine was probably at a 4 right now.

* They agreed that the rear airbags/part of the suspension needs to be replaced. My current repair shop said that an aftermarket system to change it over to traditional shocks might be a good idea. They disagreed with that recommendation.

* In addition to the rear brakes needing replacing, but they said the front brakes also need replacing. They told me that there are aftermarket pads on both the front and rear, and the front had some issue that related to how it was serviced. I found all of that disappointing. Brake pads that are aftermarket may be just as good or be even better, but I was never told that they were using aftermarket parts. In addition, the issue with the missing parts on the front was concerning.

* They picked up that my battery was not testing as it should, and it had a leak. I bought the battery myself and put it in two years ago (an Interstate battery), which is the same type they use and recommend. Fortunately, they can prorate the battery with a new one.

I have a new service shop. It is not nearly as convenient – I have to go downtown to see them and I have to make appointments. In addition, my current repair shop has an after hours service bay that I always use and drop it off around eight or 9 o'clock at night, and that kind of thing will not be available. But I trust these guys more based upon what I heard.

This does make me wonder about the Hondas as well, although the reviews for my current repair shop are absolutely terrific online. I probably will keep them for servicing the Hondas, but they have lost me for my Lexus.

[ukpumacat]

Glad you got it worked out Darrell.

I have a German repair shop I have taken my Audi to for years and absolutely love it. And then a Toyota focused repair shop to take our 4Runner to. The 4Runner has almost 200,000 miles now and we gave it to our son.

All that to say, we just bought a Lexus GX last year (it was a year old when we bought it). We purchased it from a Lexus dealership so it had all of the inspections etc. It came with the service package so my first number of services are free at the Lexus dealership.
Anyways, first time I took it in I straight up told the guy..."I don't trust you guys. I am only here because it is free. I am only doing what is free. Please do not even ask me about anything else."

That didn't work. Came back with about 5 issues that would cost thousands. I said no of course. When I came in I told the guy, "How badly is this vehicle made that I purchased it less than a year ago and bought it from you. And it had gone through your hundred point inspection. And already all of this needs to be done?".

Finding one you trust is just worth its price in gold. Glad you have found one.

[Darrell KSR]

Yup. I saved over $4k, and have my front brakes done and a new battery that were not included. True, I may not have really "saved" it, in the sense that I basically kicked the can down the road on it, to some degree, but a) if I have the work done, it will be months--or later--that it will be done, which has value to me, and b) there's more than a reasonable chance that I will have another car before that work will need to be done. In fact, that was in the equation this time. But I will be honest. I absolutely love the car. I love the way it drives, looks, the size, everything. Well, I don't like the gas mileage. And since mine is an older model, it has none of the safety features that I will get on a new one like the lane centering assistance and radar cruise control. Driving interstate highways like I do that are not horribly jammed, and those features, to me, have value.

Does your Toyota place also do Lexus? You may be golden in yours.

[bigsky]

Yeah, don’t pay taxes till you have to and very rarely do optional car repairs. You asked a question then I went fishin for three weeks and the answer is no. It’s a stop gap that could postpone an expensive repair for a year or so.

But toyotas are likely to drip after 135-150k.

I postponed at 178k miles and nine months later the engine popped the head gasket. So I postponed the front end repair forever.

[Darrell KSR]

Gotcha, bigsky. Same page.