Students Told to Call 9-11 Hijackers “Freedom Fighters”

[CitizenBBN]

A little quick googling on CSCOPE makes it pretty clear the comments and concerns are in context and are valid IMO.

CSCOPE is primarily online, and whenever a lesson creates controversy they delete it without a trace. They have teachers sign non-disclosure agreements, the chairman of the state board coudln't get a password for 6 months.

I was born in the morning, but not this morning. When an educational curriculum or anything like it is shrouded in secrecy and edited without an audit trail in response to public concerns it's not an attempt to honestly educate, it's an attempt to further a agenda and in this case ideology.

Here's a whole site dedicated to it and its ties to Bill Ayers (a self described terrorist who tried to bomb the Pentagon and close Obama confidant - not making that up folks): http://www.txcscopereview.com/

The Texas legislature is going to get involved apparently, but some are pushing for a lawsuit. Texas law says all materials have to be available to parents but CSCOPE keeps all but summaries unavailable to non-authorized persons. There's such a thing as copyright, every textbook ever made is available to parents, but this isn't. If it walks like a duck...

Personally I find the entire educational system very worrisome. First I want the federal government to have ZERO influence in education. I can see good overall reasons for it, trying to improve education in the US, but it is far too easily corrupted by all political sides and certainly by lobbies and corporations. As with most things, the best way to protect something is to keep government out of it.

By having the 50 states on their own we can introduce competition between them, at least providing some compared to none using federal regulation. Education is about oversight, and it is a deeply parental responsibility. The further it is removed from parents and put in hands of career "educators" who have no real experience teaching children and have their own agendas and petty politics the worse it will become.

This is pretty clearly an agenda, both financial (buy our massive product) and ideological. Hopefully the Texas legislature can put a stop to it.

[KeithKSR]

Here's a whole site dedicated to it and its ties to Bill Ayers (a self described terrorist who tried to bomb the Pentagon and close Obama confidant - not making that up folks): http://www.txcscopereview.com/
.................................................. ....

Personally I find the entire educational system very worrisome. First I want the federal government to have ZERO influence in education. I can see good overall reasons for it, trying to improve education in the US, but it is far too easily corrupted by all political sides and certainly by lobbies and corporations. As with most things, the best way to protect something is to keep government out of it.

Don't forget that Ayers is a self ascribed communist.

In regards to the Feds and education, the more they become involved the more convoluted things become. If the Feds wanted to have the greatest impact on education they would supply funds to be used by local districts in manners they feel can make the most impact. The initiatives that have done the most good for the students and maximized improvement were school level initiatives.

[CitizenBBN]

Standards are set by the state. School districts have quite a bit of latitude in terms of content. A significant portion of text books are published in Texas. As a state it has a unique role in terms of how its decisions impact the availability of text books options for the country.

Still I have a few questions to actually believe this story and it full context. And an ethnic cleansing is the same damn thing as the holocaust.

1) What is the title of the text book and who publishes it?
2) There is some validity to seeing how other countries and cultures view themselves and others. Some might call that cultural relativism--and it can go that direction.

Understanding the other side is a key way to eventually defeat them too. There is nothing wrong in teaching someone that our enemy doesn't call themselves the bad guys and this is what they think.

What was the purpose of the lesson? How was it taught? What else was taught? There is a lot missing from this story.

Let's put it in context of the civil war...also referred to as the war of northern aggression. Confederates fought for states' rights and their liberty to enslave people for economic gain that they didn't deem as equal. Northerns fought to preserver the union, to free slaves or when they got off the boat from Ireland some guy handed them blue clothes and a gun.

Back to the story, it is weird.

There is no textbook. That's the #1 problem IMO. Just online materials that can be deleted. No accountability.

I can't argue that education should broaden perspective, but I see no balance here internally. Maybe a balance against the accepted beliefs in the country, but none internally. The Islam sections seem to be very positive and ignore the obvious nightmares it also creates, whereas Christianity seems to be similarly unbalanced internally. I have no problem with it teaching both the good and bad of Islam, just don't cherry pick the good. yes some Muslims do good work and compassion for others and even tolerance. Far more Muslims in the world are utterly intolerant and repressive beyond even what the Catholic Church at the height of the inquisition was able to achieve.

Honestly I'm even concerned religion is being covered much at all. I took a lot of history, and we stayed well away from it. It's the same reason we have the Barber Shop on this board. There's far more to learn in history than can possibly be covered in the alloted time anyway, so focus on things that are not so personal that it will derail the rest of the teaching effort.

This is also not "history" of Islam, it is about islam the faith and the links I saw them using go to Islam in the modern day, not a history of Islam's impact on the world. I learned about Islam as a movement and its conquest of the Middle east and north Africa and Spain. I also learned of their more open sciences during that time and their advances in mathematics, astronomy and other sciences. Those are historical truths that dont' have to bear on the teachings themselves. Discussing Islam's repression of women (or not) is not an historical discussion but a sociological one.

It's just not tactically wise, and if it is to be covered I prefer parents be given WIDE leeway, control and input. Separation of church and state and freedom of religion bear heavily on this issue. It's not the role of the state to teach religion.

I have a friend who is in fact a history teacher in Texas. Hoping to find time to get her input on what's going on there. She's no liberal, more of a libertarian like myself, will be curious to hear her thoughts.

[CitizenBBN]

Don't forget that Ayers is a self ascribed communist.

In regards to the Feds and education, the more they become involved the more convoluted things become. If the Feds wanted to have the greatest impact on education they would supply funds to be used by local districts in manners they feel can make the most impact. The initiatives that have done the most good for the students and maximized improvement were school level initiatives.

Of course they were. What will reach kids in rural Kentucky is probably not what will reach kids in Manhattan and vise versa.

Ayers and the Obama brain trust is a situation of crying wolf. People called every liberal and left of center administration "socialists" so many times the word lost meaning, and now that we have real Leftists, real socialists in that group no one believes it.

At one time America had the best primary school education in the world, all of it with no federal regulation and almost no state regulation. My grandmother could do basic math better than me or my cousins and she was taught in the classic one room schoolhouse. I've seen it, the parents built it on a corner of one parent's field. The teacher was hired by the local parents and was boarded with them. Now THAT's parental input, and of course parents then really cared about their children getting an education.

That's the long and short of it. Too many parents just don't care about their children or their education. No amount of government can fix that, and it's a perfect opportunity for those wanting to influence those minds in ideological ways.

It's no coincidence that the first things repressive regimes do is: take over education, confiscate guns, centralize government, etc. They dont' all do it by accident, it's by design.

[jazyd]

[this is the easiest way to brainwash children, in the classroom by their beloved teacher.


QUOTE=CitizenBBN;62316]Of course they were. What will reach kids in rural Kentucky is probably not what will reach kids in Manhattan and vise versa.

Ayers and the Obama brain trust is a situation of crying wolf. People called every liberal and left of center administration "socialists" so many times the word lost meaning, and now that we have real Leftists, real socialists in that group no one believes it.

At one time America had the best primary school education in the world, all of it with no federal regulation and almost no state regulation. My grandmother could do basic math better than me or my cousins and she was taught in the classic one room schoolhouse. I've seen it, the parents built it on a corner of one parent's field. The teacher was hired by the local parents and was boarded with them. Now THAT's parental input, and of course parents then really cared about their children getting an education.

That's the long and short of it. Too many parents just don't care about their children or their education. No amount of government can fix that, and it's a perfect opportunity for those wanting to influence those minds in ideological ways.

It's no coincidence that the first things repressive regimes do is: take over education, confiscate guns, centralize government, etc. They dont' all do it by accident, it's by design.[/QUOTE]

[UKHistory]

Based on what I have read CSCOPE is horrible. Really shocked about this.

[CitizenBBN]

Based on what I have read CSCOPE is horrible. Really shocked about this.

It's pretty impressively bad from what I read as well.

I have to say I'm not surprised though, I have an extremely low opinion of the high up theories on primary education. They run around with this or that theory that just messes up another generation of kids. It's not like there's some secret to what has to be taught. None of my best teachers subscribed to some educational theory that was all the rage. Read the books, discuss the content, take the test. Keep it simple.

My mother moved me to a different school in part b/c of that stuff. Too much silly stuff and not enough straightforward education.

Yet another theoretical teaching methodology foisted on kids, this time complete with leftist tripe, no doubt to be dismissed in some years and replaced with the next great idea on how to educate.

[kritikalcat]

* I don't have a problem with AP level curriculum which includes exposure to opposing viewpoints and beliefs, even to the extent of limited immersion. A come we're going to "be" Muslims day in class doesn't bother me (it might offend bona fide Muslims?) My daughter attends a Catholic HS and is given the freedom to advocate - in papers or class debates - for viewpoints contrary to Church dogma. She took the side in favor of gay marriage in a recent class debate. It becomes a problem if the immersion becomes too lengthy and intense, like the "The Third Wave" experiment back in the 60's (teacher created ea classroom movement modeled on Nazism as a class exercise and it got out of control,) or the opposing viewpoints are presented as correct rather than as a way to allow high functioning students (again, this is AP) to experience how other sides see the world rather than just reading something in a text.

* I'd argue that the subjects discussed ARE part of Geography. Geography goes far beyond mere cartography and location of countries and capitals. It's one of the most widely inclusive disciplines, combining both physical and political/social aspects. That's not a new "lefty" view of Geography either, but one that Geographers have understood for 150 years.

Not defending CSCOPE or the particular curriculum, but I don't object to AP geography students being trusted with exposure to different, diverse and radical viewpoints.

[suncat05]

Well, that is the function of education, to expose a person to differing ideas and thoughts. I too am all in favor of this approach, and letting the student determine which way is the best way. But don't manipulate the facts and lie to a student to achieve a political/socialist agenda that is nothing but lies and bare of facts and the truth.
Which is exactly what is happening all over the U.S. and has been for decades, and even before WWII.