Vestavia Hills Alabama shooting at a eighborhood church

[dan_bgblue]

Hope that all our Alabama friends are safe.

[Darrell KSR]

Yes, it's not far from me. 70-year old white male, FFL dealer/gunsmith with no background of violence shot and killed 3 elderly people while he was attending a Boomers Potluck Dinner, held every 3rd week.

Nobody there knew him, but he apparently attended the Church in the past. Somebody invited him over to sit with them, as he was sitting alone, and he declined, then pulled out a gun and shot 3 people. One died instantly, two died later.

Somebody at the scene hit him in the face with a chair, he dropped the gun, and they subdued him and held him until the police got there.

[blueboss]

My knee jerk statement is “that’s crazy” what would snap in a 70 year old guy to act out in that manner? You just never know…


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[MickintheHam]

A friend of mine, Jim Musgrove, almost single handedly apprehended the guy. He was there at the pot luck dinner, took a folding chair and whacked the guy in the head. If you could see the arrest pictures, Jim delivered a pretty good blow. He is not a large guy, but it looks like he put everything into delivering the blow.

I worked with Jim for 15 years. I would like to think some of the training at work played a role in him taking charge in that situation.

[Darrell KSR]

Wow, Mick--the black eye the guy got from the chair was massive. Your friend may have saved many lives.

[dan_bgblue]

[blueboss]

A friend of mine, Jim Musgrove, almost single handedly apprehended the guy. He was there at the pot luck dinner, took a folding chair and whacked the guy in the head. If you could see the arrest pictures, Jim delivered a pretty good blow. He is not a large guy, but it looks like he put everything into delivering the blow.

I worked with Jim for 15 years. I would like to think some of the training at work played a role in him taking charge in that situation.

Too close to home… glad your buddy had a pair and grabbed a chair.


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[suncat05]

So glad your friend hit him in the head with that chair and was able to subdue him.
However, that said, it happened in Al-a-BAM-a, so where were the good guys with the guns at to respond to this situation? Myself, I am always armed when I go to Mass, I don't care what the Church or the priests say. I am NOT losing my wife or either of my kids to a nutjob or plain 'ol hateful S.O.B. that just wants to shoot up a church full of people who are there for the sole purpose of worshipping God in the manner that they choose to or see fit to.
Yes, I am retired, but I still have an obligation to my community to protect it when and if I can. Just because I'm retired doesn't mean that I've been relieved of my Oath. Especially during these trying times when knotheads like this choose to come into a church to murder and wreak havoc on people that they may believe will be easy targets. That's just how I see this.

[MickintheHam]

My knee jerk statement is “that’s crazy” what would snap in a 70 year old guy to act out in that manner? You just never know…


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The shooter, as one might expect was all over the police radar. He was a gun dealer. The police had made numerous trips to his house. They even knew what kind of car he was driving. It appears he may have been a well establish nut case long ago. So many of these mass shooters are well known to police. What in our legal system has to change in order to get these sicko’s off the streets.

[VirginiaCat]

The shooter, as one might expect was all over the police radar. He was a gun dealer. The police had made numerous trips to his house. They even knew what kind of car he was driving. It appears he may have been a well establish nut case long ago. So many of these mass shooters are well known to police. What in our legal system has to change in order to get these sicko’s off the streets.

Mick, I think the question is who gets to define "nutjob". Does being wierd on on the fringe of society mean you lose constitutional rights if you have never committed a crime? I personally do not think so.

[MickintheHam]

Local Police were called to his home 13 times between 2019 and 2022. Details of the calls are not available to the public. Calls were related to extra protection, complaints from neighbors, suspicious activity, and requests for medical attention. He reportedly was charged multiple times with firearms violations. ATF had visited him and cited him several times. As a gun dealer he did not have records of purchases or other records of firearms disposition.

I don’t know what to do with a situation such as this. I do know anyone who has the police visit his hom 13 times in 2 1/2 years is clearly outside the norms of society.

[VirginiaCat]

Local Police were called to his home 13 times between 2019 and 2022. Details of the calls are not available to the public. Calls were related to extra protection, complaints from neighbors, suspicious activity, and requests for medical attention. He reportedly was charged multiple times with firearms violations. ATF had visited him and cited him several times. As a gun dealer he did not have records of purchases or other records of firearms disposition.

I don’t know what to do with a situation such as this. I do know anyone who has the police visit his hom 13 times in 2 1/2 years is clearly outside the norms of society.

Ok, Gooid info. I think that may be a bitt different than a nutjob. If ATF involved and medical attention required, that is the classic defintiion of a Red Flag.

[suncat05]

13 calls for service to his home in 2 1/2 years, and yet no one did anything further? And the BATFE cited him but did not revoke his FFL? There's your tax dollars at work. What that is, is exactly what the government is so good at doing when there is a problem. Nothing. Until it blows up and somebody is injured, maimed, or dies, and then there's a wringing of hands and a gnashing of teeth and lots of finger pointing.

And exactly "why" are the details of the calls for service not available? Isn't that public information that is supposed to be available upon written request?

[Darrell KSR]

Not sure what you guys wanted. There's no law that would prevent him from owning a gun here. I fail to see what the government did wrong.

[MickintheHam]

13 calls for service to his home in 2 1/2 years, and yet no one did anything further? And the BATFE cited him but did not revoke his FFL? There's your tax dollars at work. What that is, is exactly what the government is so good at doing when there is a problem. Nothing. Until it blows up and somebody is injured, maimed, or dies, and then there's a wringing of hands and a gnashing of teeth and lots of finger pointing.

And exactly "why" are the details of the calls for service not available? Isn't that public information that is supposed to be available upon written request?

The police do not wish to release them. They are "evidence" in the case.

[MickintheHam]

This week we had the shooting of two Sheriff’s deputies in the next county. One died from a bullet to the brain. Perp is 26 years old. He has had 46 criminal charges since he was 17 years old. One charge was choking an officer of the law. Another was escaping from work detail. He was out on bond. In this instance he stole an automobile and was evading police. Second time for that.

At what juncture do you decide thes people need to be in prison and not mingling in society until a judge hears their case???

[Doc]

This week we had the shooting of two Sheriff’s deputies in the next county. One died from a bullet to the brain. Perp is 26 years old. He has had 46 criminal charges since he was 17 years old. One charge was choking an officer of the law. Another was escaping from work detail. He was out on bond. In this instance he stole an automobile and was evading police. Second time for that.

At what juncture do you decide thes people need to be in prison and not mingling in society until a judge hears their case???

Last week, my son in law, who is a police officer here in FL, had a couple rounds shot at him during a pursuit on I-95. Guy stuck the gun out the car window and fired at Tommy and other officers as he was being chased. They ended up shooting him (the perp, not Tommy)

https://www.wpbf.com/article/four-in...ounty/40267635

[suncat05]

Last week, my son in law, who is a police officer here in FL, had a couple rounds shot at him during a pursuit on I-95. Guy stuck the gun out the car window and fired at Tommy and other officers as he was being chased. They ended up shooting him (the perp, not Tommy)

https://www.wpbf.com/article/four-in...ounty/40267635

Gifford isn't the best neighborhood to be hanging out in. As long as I've been living in Florida, which is over 30 years now, it has always been a high crime area. Vero Beach P.D. and the Indian River County S.O. are always busy in there.