And they would certainly know.Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
And they would certainly know.
MOLON LABE!
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
and jimmy carter says hi!
Stark difference between the USA women football players (soccer) and those in Afganistan. One is fighting for their lives, the other so cake decorators have to provide their services for their weddings.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
My single biggest issue with Leftists is their "hate America first" stance when they clearly have no idea how good people have it in America, and even more clearly have no clue how this country went from a backwater escape for the persecuted to this level of wealth. It wasn't through socialism and social justice, if any of them are reading and need a hint.
No nation is not perfect and we have work to do, but empirically we know the way to go at those problems is with the free market and liberty, not by emulating totalitarianism with a faux sense of benevolence.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
Exactly let them move to these countries and lose all their perks and livelihood and stop trying to ruin America!
Yes citizen, “hate america first” is the watchphrase of the current revolution
McConnell reporting as many as 15,000 Americans are still in the country, now at the Taliban's mercy.
They have gotten our weapons, ammunition, and even money.
BTW, in the last year there were zero American military deaths in Afghanistan, and operations there were 1% of our defense budget.
Yes we were there for 20 years, but the cost to do so in lives and treasure was small to keep the nation from being a threat.
I don't think many Americans wanted to be there forever, but withdrawing like this has been a complete disaster.
My God, people died clinging to our planes as they fell, and were crushed by the wheels going up. It is absolutely Saigon and the Bay of Pigs all over again, full stop. Easily one of the worst American political foreign policy failures of the last century.
Even if we get all Americans out, which is unlikely, we'll never save all our allies. May God have mercy on the pain our soldiers will have from leaving their allies and even friends behind in this manner. Imagine the guilt those pilots and crew must feel, even though they were following orders.
All of this effort has been a failure. A failure of more Pentagon and White House brass going back 20 years that is more interested in DC cocktail parties than in going in country and getting a solution. Just like Vietnam.
But the worst of all of these failures is on biden. At least in Afghanistan the cost in men and money was relatively small, tiny in fact compared to Vietnam. We lose more soldiers to training accidents than we were losing in Afghanistan, and now thousands of Afganis and mostly likely some Americans will die, and the Taliban and Islamist terrorism gets a MASSIVe shot in the arm in PR, morale, money and materials.
I thought the height of US supporting of terrorism came with Obama sending billions in unmarked bills to Iran on pallets. I was wrong.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
The same people are in charge of our economy, the southern “border”, our freedom, the federal budget, etc.
Yep. Geraldo funny enough said it best:
Instead, Rivera pointed to "self-important, Ivy [League] a----".
That sums it up well. The "elites" who run this country are inexperienced, coddled ivy league know it alls who have no idea how this country really runs or how the rest of the world really works. They sit around pontificating beautiful theories of socialism and foreign policy which sound great and are abysmal failures.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
Really have to fear the open border now even more with the taliban in full control.
It’s just a matter of time before the full regret is in plain view.
Not sure America will ever recover with this clown in charge.
So I really want to thank all those democrats out there that keep voting these clowns into office from the president to the senators.
Americans have tolerated having occupied military bases in South Korea, Japan, the Philippines, Germany, etc for 75 years. Having a few thousand troops in Afghanistan for another 50 years would be a small price to pay to protect us and the natives from the Taliban, China, Russia, and Pakistan.I don't think many Americans wanted to be there forever, but withdrawing like this has been a complete disaster.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
Biden = Obama. Same same. No difference, not even in the amount of ineptitude.
MOLON LABE!
exactly. We're in Korea 30,000 strong so the NK doesn't invade. We're in Eastern Europe now so Russia doesn't invade.
There were very minimal US casualties in Afghanistan the last several years in fact. We had more deaths from accidents by far than from combat. While one is too many, compared to our operations elsewhere Afghanistan had actually been fairly stable the last few years.
That's not to say I wanted to stay forever, but if the choice was to hand the country to the Taliban and, by proxy, our larger enemies, or stay, then we don't have much choice but to stay.
The failure of the last 20 years to build a regime in the region that would be a stable ally is the problem, but such may not be possible there.
But regardless everyone should agree this withdrawal was one of the worst handled Us operations in history. It's Vietnam run at 10x speed.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
And the pandemic, which is the song that never ends.
It’s hard to say how many terrorists had entered through the Southern border before Afghanistan fell to the Taliban.
A lot more will now for sure.
The most powerful military on the planet is being run out of Afghanistan by a bunch of goat herders/sheep f**kers. Sad.
That’s what happens when your leader is bozo the clowns brother!
This isnt meant to start any political fights or backing one party over the other, and i agree that Biden and our current leaders obviously botched this exit, but i dont think there was a good way to exit without this happening. Now in regard to getting people out, definitely that part falls squarely on current leaders. how do they screw that up so bad. they just thought the taliban would gradually take control after 20 years of hiding in the hills? dumb. back to my original question though, leaving afghanistan seemed to be a bipartisan decision and one that Trump really keyed in on and he sat a hard date to leave which was earlier, would not the same thing have happened (other than maybe he got everyone out first). Why didnt Trump want to keep troops over there since the cost was low and it is a cheap price to pay for peace of mind from terrorist. Not political here, just an educational question as i use you guys to shape my opinion on many things.
Honestly i always agreed with Trump on this, that the endless war over there is not worth fighting on our dime because its been going on since the end of time so i supported the withdrawl on the surface. That being said, im not much of an expert on the matters and have just been reading about foreign affairs the past few years.
Go Cats!
A good way out? No
A better way out? Absolutely
You first maintain Bagram base and use it over the civilian airport. The idea to abandon that was moronic. Next you get the nonmilitary out under the protection of the military. That includes US citizens and Afghanistan who have assisted us, and leave a bare minimum of support. Then you clear the munitions so they don't fall into Taliban hands. To me this is the biggest debacle of the Biden plan. We have armed the Taliban. How stupid can you be. All this time you are preparing to leave by destroying intel.
Then and only then do you remove the military, but leave behind a force large enough to support the Afghanistan government and maintain peace. But if you want 100% withdrawl, fine. Expect the Taliban to move quickly.
Instead we did it backwards. We gave up the secure airfield and pulled the military, leaving the weapons of war and a large group of Americans. Now I have less sympathy for those trapped as they knew this was coming so I would have exited far sooner.
And yes, Trump too wanted out. Most Americans wanted us out. But what Trump would not have done, nor do most citizens wanted, was a tuck your tails and run, every man for himself chaotic cluster#### that Joe Biden orchestrated
And one other thing....Trump would have held those who screwed up accountable. He was often criticized for his habit of firing, or requesting resignations, of staffers who failed him. In this Afghanistan debacle, I expect nobody to lose their job. Nobody will be held accountable for their poor decisions and advice. Good thing about being a gov't employee, competency is not a job requirement
Last edited by Doc; 08-19-2021 at 11:42 AM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
It’s the overall failures under this leadership that has to or should be a red flag to each and every American no matter if they are Republican or Democrats.
This leadership has America in full free fall and warning signs going off everywhere!
There are two questions:
1) Do we leave or stay, knowing the regime will collapse an the Taliban will take over?
2) How do we leave so as to secure the safest exit and transfer the least wealth and material to the Taliban?
The first question is the same under Biden or Trump. The second question is all on Biden.
Most Americans wanted to leave. Even More would have wanted us to not pull out troops before up to 15,000 Americans were also out and maybe 20,000-50,000 Afghani allies.
We can debate if Biden and/or Trump should have reassessed given the results of Trumps deal, b/c over the last year we had no combat deaths, and were holding the country with relatively small number of troops. If that stalemate could have held that's not exactly a "war" any more, and introducing that option into the polls I'm betting a lot of Americans would take that third option where the Taliban doesn't get the country back but we aren't losing American lives to prevent it.
But there is no debate the way this exit was done was a debacle, and it's coming out from the Pentagon that it was at least in part b/c Biden but hard limits on the number of troops they could use to secure the country until the exit was done. The statement yesterday was that the military abadoned Bagram b/c Biden wouldn't approve enough troops to hold it during this transition.
They are throwing Biden under the bus, blaming him for the lack of military strategy to execute the withdrawal. If they're telling the truth then this is completely on his administration.
This is shameful. We can debate if leaving at this point is also shameful, but the execution of the withdrawal has to be one of the worst US political and military failures outside of notable WWII defeats of the last century. It's not OK to just blame a POTUS who isn't even in office when something this monumental happens, and that's true regardless of who is POTUS.
This level of policy is clearly on whoever is in charge as he's been in charge more than long enough for the evacuation to be his plan and have full control over it.
Last edited by CitizenBBN; 08-19-2021 at 01:52 PM.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
I want to add that us leaving the people of Afghanistan like we did is reprehensible. The majority of the people of Afghanistan have not lived under the Taliban rule as most of the citizens were born AFTER the USA interceded. The narrative that this is what they are accustomed to is false. They are used to a fairly peaceful country. And the idea that the USA military can not get these refugees out is 100% on the current administration. Send a smart bomb into the royal palace and kill a bunch of Taliban leadership. Then promise to do so each and every day unless they allow all those who want to leave out. The idea that the USA is impotent to do anything is laughable.
Of course the other option is to send them (the Taliban) a plane loaded with cash in return for letting those stuck in Afghanistan out. It is a tried and true option employed by Obama/Biden in the past. Maybe throw in few "goat wifes" to sweeten the deal.
Last edited by Doc; 08-19-2021 at 04:08 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
And can Biden learn how to pronounce Taliban? Its not TOLLY-BON. Granted, it is how Obama pronounced it but that does not make it right. Given his propensity to plagiarize, next Biden will start on POCKEY-STON and ISIL.
The entire interpreter situation reminds me of the movie The Killing Fields (one of the great tear jerker movies ever)
Last edited by Doc; 08-19-2021 at 03:44 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
I haven’t noticed that many liberals posting on this thread.
Odd….
Darryl
Should be embarrassed.
That they voted this clown into office!
I told everyone Biden was an idiot, not that it really needed to be told. Not "he's an idiot" like people say about every candidate, but a guy who for 40 years has shown a complete lack of understanding of policy.
So far the response is clear: Biden and initially his handlers thought this would all just blow over the way the media has covered for him on everything else in his career.
I'm sure they are stunned to see even their staunchest propaganda agents start to ask real questions, and call him out for the damage that has been done, the lack of any response, and him ducking the media and everyone else in response.
We've doomed at least some of our citizens and many allies to death, created trauma for many more that will last their entire lives, and sentenced untold hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children in Afghanistan to abuse, repression, torture and even death.
At least the abandonment of our citizens and allies was totally unnecessary even if we withdrew, simply by doing it with even the most basic level of intelligence.
But there is no defense of this debacle, and everyone knows it. Even the McCains have now abandoned him and questioned whether he should be removed from office at this point, and they were on his damned transition team.
Last edited by CitizenBBN; 08-22-2021 at 12:57 AM.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
Not really. They spent 4 years telling us what a liar and idiot Trump was/is. Not to mention his failing on controlling COVID (because Joe has done so much better!). I recall liberals claiming Trump alienated and offended out allies, and how embarrassed they were over that.
But apparently they and vampires share a common trait.... mirrors do work
Last edited by Doc; 08-22-2021 at 07:53 AM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
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