Not me , I haven’t been vocal about it but I’ve got no problem with people that have . Recruiting or no recruiting. I could very easily give up watching the college basketball $hit show of today .Originally Posted by takmashfan
Not me , I haven’t been vocal about it but I’ve got no problem with people that have . Recruiting or no recruiting. I could very easily give up watching the college basketball $hit show of today .
It’s a total **** show, and one thing that bugs me the more I ponder it is that Cal really does not care about The University of Kentucky and how his actions or approach effort the future.
Again, I don’t doubt people stopped watching something because of kneeling. I’m positive those people are out there.
I’m simply saying I think that’s way too simplistic to blame low ratings simply on that.
Like I said, Nascars ratings have plummeted as well.
It’s certainly not because they kneeled during the national anthem.
The World Series ratings were way down. Same with the Stanley Cup. Same with the Masters.
This was an across the board ratings dive for every single major sport no matter their political/social messaging.
It had far more to do with other things than it did with politics.
I'm not really sure what you are disagreeing with. I am not expecting anyone to change their beliefs, although I do think if the players were able to actually talk to fans that feel this way and vice versa, that some beliefs would change, I am suggesting people pick a better way to express themselves, the same thing that many that are opposing side of the kneeling are saying too. A fitting compromise is to pick a game per year to protest and the fans be silent.
The actions that I oppose are when people go too far and DM the players directly.
Again, I am not saying that anyone should not be free to express themselves. I just say choose some restraint and do it respectfully. If you disagree with that, well, I just don't know.
I would call those die-easy fans if a simple kneeling turned them off. There are plenty of athletes on teams that I support that believe in things that I do not. I keep watching.
When one side "writes the rules" for which they expect all to obey and respect without any regard for how others may feel, that is exactly what not being open and inclusive is. It's what folks like you miss in this whole debate. There are millions of people for which the flag represents something completely different that all they want is for the flag to represent to them what it does for so many others. They are void of that emotion, seek it, and don't want to be told 'you must respect it like I do' without the benefits that allow them to feel that emotion.
It's a privilege that you and I, and more than likely everyone on this board, were born with. I can't imagine what pain some feel when they look at the flag and it reminds them of horrors that I can't begin to feel. I want to hear what they have to say, because I have experienced my whole life hearing and feeling why we should respect the flag. I do not want these people to simply entertain me. I want to know about their experiences.
I respect that others do not feel the same way that I do. I wish more people did, but I do not have the energy to change people that do not want to change. The last thing that I would consider folks like that is open and inclusive.
Wow!
Bubba Wallace
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I just believe there are better places to discuss these things in depth.
But neither side is correct believing they are a big majority, or that "they" are wrong and "we" are right.
It is not universal in how it emotionally effects people, and there is no right or wrong. It is rather a question of, is this appropriate, and is this effective.
Some folks think the flag represents the service men and women who have served and sacrificed for this country. And that it is something bigger than the individual.
Still, others believe that those those individuals who served represent and gave their lives for the flag, or more precisely, those it stands for and what it seeks to accomplish. The ongoing endeavor to create and maintain, as a great man once said, a more perfect union where each citizen is treated fairly and entirely equal.
That is an endeavor that will never end as long as we exist as a nation, and has been proclaimed as our agenda for the whole world for many decades now.
Still, those two ideologies, neither being wrong or without noble intent, are never going to coexist when someone kneels before the flag.
And perhaps that is both the positive and negative of it. It is certainly why I believe it is not an effective means to have your protest heard. Reaching people, even when the cause may be just, is impossible when you first offend them. There is the fallacy of it.
One side views it as protesting the flag, and the other sees it as protesting before the flag, and directly to all those whom the flag represents. That just seems so evident and so important to understand.
Except for advertising dollars and its manipulative marketing strategies, I think most would have already come to that conclusion.
And I believe the practice would have ceased. I really do.
Last edited by kingcat; 05-04-2021 at 10:15 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
I don’t follow NASCAR but know that they took a big hit with their political stance last summer.
The woke crowd isn’t very inclusive with their constant search and destroy missions. In fact they are very exclusionary.
When Americans talk about hate for the flag that’s huge, whatever you wish to achieve is there for the taking but Americans earn it and work for it.
This new found generation or this woke crowd wants everything given to them.
They will destroy this country and laugh about it as it collapses around them!
"Folks like me"??? Wow, you are so good at mind reading to know what I think on this issue and I haven't even really discussed it here. What am I thinking now?
You and I are two ships that pass in the night. You think I don't see your points. I do, but this has nothing to do with my point.
The point is that "your side" isn't any more open and inclusive than those you dismiss. There's almost no open and inclusive anywhere in any of these debates right now. No one side is being open and inclusive here and the other closed and dismissive. It's 24/7 dismissive and closed from all sides. Anyone who dissents is demonized, or to borrow the modern tactic, "cancelled".
My point wasn't even about the kneeling, but specifically how language is used to draw lines in the sand that are totally artificial and are nothing more than the propaganda that is usually reserved for demonizing a people when at a state of war.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
I don’t follow it either. Again, I’m not even participating or engaging in the political debate about kneeling.
I know people have stopped watching over it. I have friends on here that have and several not on here that have. I get that and don’t doubt it.
I just believe it’s far more than that. And for me, I’m fascinated by that part of the discussion (by reading this thread I think I’m the only one that is ha).
Something happened during Covid that made people less interested in things like watching sports.
It may be the lack of crowds. It may be the Rhythm of life that changed. It may be that people found other interests. It may be that sports just seemed frivolous. It may be that sports just didn’t seem very important anymore. Maybe all of that.
But it was 100% across the board in every sport. No matter the audience. No matter the political leanings. They ALL took a dive. And that fascinates me.
I don't know what you mean by the "constant search and destroy missions". If I had to guess, wouldn't that just be characterizing an entire group of people, by the perceived actions of a few? Kind of like what the "blue lives matter" people tells the country not to do with police.
Plus, I actually find what is characterized as woke person absolutely open to a dialogue. The problem is with almost any disagreeing parties is that reason and respect can de-escalate quickly once either side perceives a threat.
I don't have "a side" in this game. My only side is to have a dialogue. I do tend to have more empathy for people that have gone through things that I cannot understand. I tend to have more empathy for people that have got the short end of the stick. I tend to have more empathy for people that have not had the privileges that you and I have had.
I hear a lot that one side feels like they are not being included. I am waiting for someone to tell me what it is they are missing out on.
I've gone as far as I want to in this conversation, because as I said, I do not have the energy to change minds, nor do I have the experiences to change minds. My goals in life is to keep learning about things that I never knew. Injustices. Inequalities. What privilege really means. I keep learning so I can improve myself and treat people how they want to be treated.
I can't read your mind, but I can read your words and if I have mischaracterized you in any way, you have an outlet to set things straight, but this is not my first time at the rodeo with you and I think I have a pretty good understanding of where you stand.
Last edited by StuBleedsBlue2; 05-04-2021 at 11:43 PM.
I don't know if I find it fascinating or heartwarming. I don't think it will be permanent either, because people tend to gravitate back to what they know and love.
I do believe threads like this one can turn multiple recruits off and drive the players we already have away. And with only one view of it in its entirety.
It's that sensitive for both sides, and that easily manipulated.
That said, I also believe it's a discussion that is sorely needed. But where are the moderates who would have to lead such a dialogue on a national scale?
Last edited by kingcat; 05-05-2021 at 12:49 AM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
This^^
Attendance and TV ratings were declining across the board for sporting events before covid hit. When it did I think, myself included, a lot of people found that there were other things that they enjoyed doing. That when sports started back up it just didn't have the same meaning for me anyway. Did I still enjoy watching, of course, but if it didn't go the way I wanted it to it wasn't a big deal.
Where are the moderates? Horrified by the left’s greed and lust for power and hate america first politics. Disgusted by the federal government’s looting of our future. Stop spending stop spending stop spending. The original tea party mantra. We pledged to support the Constitution of country and state—all of both, but see damn few doing that. Many of us see only a horrible downfall now, and are too tired to fight a two front battle any longer.
Also, pro sports are as disgusting as Hollywood, with the welfare state stadiums and gross salaries and irresponsible immoral players. Wokism is just another layer of insult to our country.
The far left desires to facilitate the collapse of our economy and government in order to push through their socialist-communist agenda.
That's what you believe, but we all actually KNOW that the right tried to overthrow our Democracy, and wanted to hang and harm our elected leaders all for a purpose to halt the process of formally electing a President freely selected by the people and to install an autocrat. 70% of Republicans believe the election was a fraud and support Jan 6. 70% of American, therefore do not believe in American democracy in favor of absolute rule. That's about 55 million people. This "far left" that you speak of that supports "the collapse of our economy and government", how many people is that? 1 million? 2 million? Probably less.
Excluding this far left group, all other folks on the left really seek a government that represents all the people and not just the corporations and the wealthy and a government that works to minimize discrimination.
There is a legitimate threat to our democracy, but it's not this conspiracy that you suggest that has no influence, power, ability or leaders.
The far left has put their goals in writing and are self-proclaimed Marxists, but you are too blinded to acknowledge what they are saying.
I believe if we went back to conscription this country would improve. Maybe not all military, but service to humanity.
Real Fan since 1958
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
This is a good idea. A very good idea.
MOLON LABE!
Been saying this for year. Worst thing that happened to this country was elimination of the Draft. A hick from E.KY got to know the person from inner city Chicago as a person, not a persona portrayed by news or media. That was lost.
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