Cal's Pride and the Point Guard Dilemma

[Powermaker]

I am glad he is gone. The comment “UK fans showed their true colors at times” is telling. I suspect that references the criticism for the kneeling at Florida.

That was their right and UK fans’ right to blast them for it.

On the subject of Cal being stubborn, it’s only cost us two or three titles.

Darryl

Every single fan base in the country will have a portion of fans that are turned off about kneeling.

[Powermaker]

A lot of coaches hang on too long in all sports

There are very few coaches in the HOF that weren’t “ nudged “ into retirement.

[LakeCat]

There are very few coaches in the HOF that weren’t “ nudged “ into retirement.

Rupp at UK and Crum wasn't nudged but flat shown the door.

[Darryl]

Every single fan base in the country will have a portion of fans that are turned off about kneeling.

A very large portion....

Darryl

[KeithKSR]

Every single fan base in the country will have a portion of fans that are turned off about kneeling.

I think the kneeling at Florida and the resulting backlash hurt the team.

[DanISSELisdaman]

I think so to Keith. I now it angered me and most of the UK fans that I know. Many, including me didn't watch any of the remaining games after it happened. I hope they have that foolishness out of their system and are ready to play ball this year.

[KeithKSR]

I think so to Keith. I now it angered me and most of the UK fans that I know. Many, including me didn't watch any of the remaining games after it happened. I hope they have that foolishness out of their system and are ready to play ball this year.

I know the team was on a roll, then kneels at Florida. After the big win the main questions from the media were about the kneeling. They then lost 7 out of the next 8 games, a number to lesser opponents than the Florida team they kicked around the court in Gainesville. As far as I know it was the only time players knelt during the anthem all season.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

I know the team was on a roll, then kneels at Florida. After the big win the main questions from the media were about the kneeling. They then lost 7 out of the next 8 games, a number to lesser opponents than the Florida team they kicked around the court in Gainesville. As far as I know it was the only time players knelt during the anthem all season.

The fact that the team was on a roll was why everyone should have just laid off their criticism, or at least not made it so public and let the team and players peacefully protest in a way that is respectful to them. I know people say, well they should have never taken a knee in the first place. Well, that's exactly the same dumb logic when a husband says the reason he beat his wife is because she made him mad.

Even though I do not agree with those that oppose it, I do not have any issue with those folks practicing their own boycotts, but I do have a problem when they feel it necessary to contact the team and individual players directly and harass them about their decisions.

Some UK fans need to make a choice too, because it's not going anywhere, especially in the immediate future of what Kellen Grady brings to the program. It is a turning point for the program, all sports and the university. Do our fans represent one of openness and inclusion or does it represent the "shut up and dribble" crowd? Obviously there are folks on both sides, but only one POV becomes pervasive to the people that are looking at schools.

The choice for me is VERY easy and if the prevailing, perceived attitude surrounds the program on the latter, I will have no problem handing in my BBN fan credentials. Now, that doesn't mean fan reactions, there are bad apples in every fan base. However, if it permeates the culture, the hiring, the coaches, the administration, then its adios for me. Based on who our coaches in our major programs are, I think my fandom is safe.

[catmanjack]

Again they have a right to protest and use the UK platform fans have a right to voice their displeasure.

[LakeCat]

Freedom of speech and expression pertains to players and fans alike. Protests by their very nature are to provoke a action and always entails a reaction

[Darrell KSR]

Freedom of speech and expression pertains to players and fans alike. Protests by their very nature are to provoke a action and always entails a reaction

This.

And remember, at its base, Kentucky basketball (or any sport) is entertainment only. We are all free to choose to be entertained how we see fit, and by whom we see fit. We all have, for the most part, a common allegiance on this board in that we have roots in the Commonwealth, and for most, that is the overriding concern, and we can overlook some things that we wouldn't overlook if we were choosing with no allegiance. But make no mistake--it's entertainment only, and we are free to do whatever we want with our entertainment time.

My brother has an interesting way of handling stuff like this. Any time an entertainer--be it a sports team, or a singer, or a comedian or an actor takes a political position he disagrees with--he "punishes" them by suspending them. I think he has the right idea. It makes him feel better to miss their next movie; to intentionally not listen to their next album or buy a ticket to their next concert, or to miss their next sporting event. They are punished.

When his self-appointed punishment has expired, he thinks they have done their time, and he forgives them, and moves on. Now, if they continue, he can do it again, of course--he makes up his own rules, and it's entertainment, so why not--but his general mantra is that it's HIS entertainment, so he's going to be entertained by the entertainers in the way he sees fit.

I think he has it better than most, but that's JMO.

[Powermaker]

The fact that the team was on a roll was why everyone should have just laid off their criticism, or at least not made it so public and let the team and players peacefully protest in a way that is respectful to them. I know people say, well they should have never taken a knee in the first place. Well, that's exactly the same dumb logic when a husband says the reason he beat his wife is because she made him mad.

Even though I do not agree with those that oppose it, I do not have any issue with those folks practicing their own boycotts, but I do have a problem when they feel it necessary to contact the team and individual players directly and harass them about their decisions.

Some UK fans need to make a choice too, because it's not going anywhere, especially in the immediate future of what Kellen Grady brings to the program. It is a turning point for the program, all sports and the university. Do our fans represent one of openness and inclusion or does it represent the "shut up and dribble" crowd? Obviously there are folks on both sides, but only one POV becomes pervasive to the people that are looking at schools.

The choice for me is VERY easy and if the prevailing, perceived attitude surrounds the program on the latter, I will have no problem handing in my BBN fan credentials. Now, that doesn't mean fan reactions, there are bad apples in every fan base. However, if it permeates the culture, the hiring, the coaches, the administration, then its adios for me. Based on who our coaches in our major programs are, I think my fandom is safe.

I respectfully disagree with you on this . I’m a lifelong UK fan , but I’m not going to change something I have a fundamental belief in just because “ the team was on a roll” . Also , sports viewership has taken a beating because of their “right to express themselves “ . It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out when it really starts affecting their bottom line.

[Darryl]

This.

And remember, at its base, Kentucky basketball (or any sport) is entertainment only. We are all free to choose to be entertained how we see fit, and by whom we see fit. We all have, for the most part, a common allegiance on this board in that we have roots in the Commonwealth, and for most, that is the overriding concern, and we can overlook some things that we wouldn't overlook if we were choosing with no allegiance. But make no mistake--it's entertainment only, and we are free to do whatever we want with our entertainment time.

My brother has an interesting way of handling stuff like this. Any time an entertainer--be it a sports team, or a singer, or a comedian or an actor takes a political position he disagrees with--he "punishes" them by suspending them. I think he has the right idea. It makes him feel better to miss their next movie; to intentionally not listen to their next album or buy a ticket to their next concert, or to miss their next sporting event. They are punished.

When his self-appointed punishment has expired, he thinks they have done their time, and he forgives them, and moves on. Now, if they continue, he can do it again, of course--he makes up his own rules, and it's entertainment, so why not--but his general mantra is that it's HIS entertainment, so he's going to be entertained by the entertainers in the way he sees fit.

I think he has it better than most, but that's JMO.

I knew we were kin; you just described me and my brothers

Darryl

[KeithKSR]

I respectfully disagree with you on this . I’m a lifelong UK fan , but I’m not going to change something I have a fundamental belief in just because “ the team was on a roll” . Also , sports viewership has taken a beating because of their “right to express themselves “ . It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out when it really starts affecting their bottom line.

I know of a lot of diehard UK fans that didn’t watch a single game after the game at Florida.

[Powermaker]

I know of a lot of diehard UK fans that didn’t watch a single game after the game at Florida.

Me too . I’ ll be interested if they stick to it if we’re really good next year .I just wish we could keep politics out of sports.

[KeithKSR]

Me too . I’ ll be interested if they stick to it if we’re really good next year .I just wish we could keep politics out of sports.

I don’t like to mix the two. The NBA seems to be the most politicized sport and their ratings have tanked.

[suncat05]

I think so to Keith. I now it angered me and most of the UK fans that I know. Many, including me didn't watch any of the remaining games after it happened. I hope they have that foolishness out of their system and are ready to play ball this year.

Oh, it ticked me off too. But college kids are very prone to following whatever "the latest trend" is, and that is what I'd like to believe this nonsense was.
It's trendy & fashionable to rebel against authority. And every generation does it, in one form or another.
Now, the whole George Floyd - Derrick Chauvin situation was bad. On both sides. Chauvin exceeded and abused his authority, and he's going to be spending a long time in prison for that. As he should. But let's not forget that Floyd wasn't exactly an angel either. That is the point that I believe is being overlooked in the whole narrative. Only one side of that story is being told by the media, which itself is an abuse of trust by the media.
There are two sides to every story. Every time, all the time. Always.
And by kneeling, these kids are ignoring the entire story. And showing their lack of understanding of how the world really is.
This is just my humble opinion, and how I saw this situation. I realize that not all will see this as I saw it, but I believe that BOTH sides of the story need to be examined equally, which I believe was not done.

[ukpumacat]

Covid killed the ratings in almost every sport and award show across the board. Not because anyone kneeled (and I don’t doubt there were people who stopped watching because of it).
NASCAR ratings are way down as well. The Daytona 500 was down 35%.

I think there is a fascinating story here as to why Covid caused the ratings in almost everything to tank, but I don’t think any kneeling has a lot to do with it.

[CitizenBBN]

Do our fans represent one of openness and inclusion or does it represent the "shut up and dribble" crowd? Obviously there are folks on both sides, but only one POV becomes pervasive to the people that are looking at schools..

One side is for "inclusion and openness", the other must not be for it. Wonderful how language is used to end discussion, isn't it?

I won't reply to taking the thread this way, just wanted to point out that wonderful subtlety and the false premise on which it is based. Carry on.

[CitizenBBN]

I think there is a fascinating story here as to why Covid caused the ratings in almost everything to tank, but I don’t think any kneeling has a lot to do with it.

Considering that every kind of streaming etc. shot up, I find that interesting as well.

Heck, we had a bump in people following auctions. People were looking for anything to do, yet tuned out sports.

[Doc]

Freedom of speech and expression pertains to players and fans alike. Protests by their very nature are to provoke a action and always entails a reaction

Sorry but "Freedom of Speech" is something that should not apply. As you know, the first amendment is protection against the gov't limiting speech, not a college or the NCAA. They want to state their beliefs on their own time, fine. Nobody is restricting that

What I find interesting is the many things that are offensive such as the confederate flag, red hats, etc are banned but something as offensive as kneeling for the anthem are not. Somethings are touted as brave!

[Darryl]

Covid killed the ratings in almost every sport and award show across the board. Not because anyone kneeled (and I don’t doubt there were people who stopped watching because of it).
NASCAR ratings are way down as well. The Daytona 500 was down 35%.

I think there is a fascinating story here as to why Covid caused the ratings in almost everything to tank, but I don’t think any kneeling has a lot to do with it.

You might want to conduct a poll in Alabama; I suspect you’re very wrong.

Darryl

[takmashfan]

Every single fan base in the country will have a portion of fans that are turned off about kneeling.

I agree but were the other fan bases as vocal about their displeasure for the kneeling?

[takmashfan]

[QUOTE=Darryl;709687]You might want to conduct a poll in Alabama; I suspect you’re very wrong.

Darryl[/

Could be wrong but I think a lot of people realized when sports shutdown there were a lot of other things that I/they enjoyed doing that I/they hadn't done in a long time. Made me realize, anyway, that getting all tore up over some sporting event in the long run is pretty senseless

[DanISSELisdaman]

I know the team was on a roll, then kneels at Florida. After the big win the main questions from the media were about the kneeling. They then lost 7 out of the next 8 games, a number to lesser opponents than the Florida team they kicked around the court in Gainesville. As far as I know it was the only time players knelt during the anthem all season.

Yes, I think it had a lot to do with their on court problems. I didn't know if they knelt any more or not. I didn't watch them after that game. I wouldn't have watched it if I had known they had knelt.

[Powermaker]

I agree but were the other fan bases as vocal about their displeasure for the kneeling?

I’m sure they were . There are lots more UK fans than most every other program so relatively speaking, in pure numbers there were more fans that were vocal . Kentucky is also a conservative state so the % of people disgusted with kneeling is probably greater than some states.

[takmashfan]

I’m sure they were . There are lots more UK fans than most every other program so relatively speaking, in pure numbers there were more fans that were vocal . Kentucky is also a conservative state so the % of people disgusted with kneeling is probably greater than some states.

And that is the whole point that I was trying to make earlier in the thread that it is being used against us in recruiting. Should they have done it, I wished they wouldn't have. It is their right just as it is our right to agree or disagree. I just wish our fan base wouldn't had been so vocal about it because i'm afraid we're paying some consequences recruiting now

[DanISSELisdaman]

Oh, it ticked me off too. But college kids are very prone to following whatever "the latest trend" is, and that is what I'd like to believe this nonsense was.
It's trendy & fashionable to rebel against authority. And every generation does it, in one form or another.
Now, the whole George Floyd - Derrick Chauvin situation was bad. On both sides. Chauvin exceeded and abused his authority, and he's going to be spending a long time in prison for that. As he should. But let's not forget that Floyd wasn't exactly an angel either. That is the point that I believe is being overlooked in the whole narrative. Only one side of that story is being told by the media, which itself is an abuse of trust by the media.
There are two sides to every story. Every time, all the time. Always.
And by kneeling, these kids are ignoring the entire story. And showing their lack of understanding of how the world really is.
This is just my humble opinion, and how I saw this situation. I realize that not all will see this as I saw it, but I believe that BOTH sides of the story need to be examined equally, which I believe was not done.

I agree with this. The media has messed in every bodies mess kit! I chose to not watch them, because I thought they were being dis-respectful to our service men and women and our flag and they are much more important to me than watching a bunch mis-informed kids throw a ball through a hoop. Don't get me wrong, I've been a lifelong fan of the Wildcats and it's not easy to lay aside something you love, but in this case, it was the thing to do IMO. If the good Lord allows me to live, I'll watch them this year, unless they show disrespect again. If they do, I'll find something better to do with my time.

[LakeCat]

Sorry but "Freedom of Speech" is something that should not apply. As you know, the first amendment is protection against the gov't limiting speech, not a college or the NCAA. They want to state their beliefs on their own time, fine. Nobody is restricting that

What I find interesting is the many things that are offensive such as the confederate flag, red hats, etc are banned but something as offensive as kneeling for the anthem are not. Somethings are touted as brave!

Oh Doc I certainly did not imply it was ok for the players to use the court as their avenue for protest. I wasn’t wild about the football team marching downtown but it wasn’t carried to the field so ok imo. I just meant players and fans alike have the right to express themselves on their own time. I lost two flight school classmates in Vietnam who were shot down. Their bodies were never found. I don’t have adequate words to express how po’d I was at the kneeling particularly the coaching staff. I still love UK but will never fully embrace Cal again

[uklandrn]

This.

And remember, at its base, Kentucky basketball (or any sport) is entertainment only. We are all free to choose to be entertained how we see fit, and by whom we see fit. We all have, for the most part, a common allegiance on this board in that we have roots in the Commonwealth, and for most, that is the overriding concern, and we can overlook some things that we wouldn't overlook if we were choosing with no allegiance. But make no mistake--it's entertainment only, and we are free to do whatever we want with our entertainment time.

My brother has an interesting way of handling stuff like this. Any time an entertainer--be it a sports team, or a singer, or a comedian or an actor takes a political position he disagrees with--he "punishes" them by suspending them. I think he has the right idea. It makes him feel better to miss their next movie; to intentionally not listen to their next album or buy a ticket to their next concert, or to miss their next sporting event. They are punished.

When his self-appointed punishment has expired, he thinks they have done their time, and he forgives them, and moves on. Now, if they continue, he can do it again, of course--he makes up his own rules, and it's entertainment, so why not--but his general mantra is that it's HIS entertainment, so he's going to be entertained by the entertainers in the way he sees fit.

I think he has it better than most, but that's JMO.

I started doing this in my own way in the 90's towards Hollywood. I basically stopped going to movies if the people in them decided they wanted to express viewpoints that were antithesis to my own. I agree they are allowed their opinions. I am also allowed to not support their opinion with my money.