"internal" HVAC part replacement

[Darrell KSR]

Not the outside part--we had that replaced last year, but the internal part...coil, return, I don't know what everything is, but apparently we have a freon leak so either the coil needs to be replaced--and our system is already 15 years old--or everything on the inside needs to be replaced.

Any idea what a decent price is? I don't really understand everything, but quoted $5400 and $5800 for the two things quoted. Both are Carrier, with 10 year warranty.

Not a big house, not anything that should be out of the ordinary. Just a "regular" HVAC thing. 3.5 ton Carrier unit outside.

I think they'll negotiate on the price some to keep the business, but I wanted to see if this is ballpark.

(I may just get the coil replaced even though they tell me not to do it. Other than this leak, everything seems to be working fine and has been fine for a long time. They service it twice a year and haven't had any issues.)

[KentuckyWildcat]

Been a while, but I don't feel like that is unreasonable. Parents had a 3 ton installed last year. I'll try to remember what that cost them.

If you have my luck with contractors, pay them $7,000 if they show up on time.

[VirginiaCat]

Not the outside part--we had that replaced last year, but the internal part...coil, return, I don't know what everything is, but apparently we have a freon leak so either the coil needs to be replaced--and our system is already 15 years old--or everything on the inside needs to be replaced.

Any idea what a decent price is? I don't really understand everything, but quoted $5400 and $5800 for the two things quoted. Both are Carrier, with 10 year warranty.

Not a big house, not anything that should be out of the ordinary. Just a "regular" HVAC thing. 3.5 ton Carrier unit outside.

I think they'll negotiate on the price some to keep the business, but I wanted to see if this is ballpark.

(I may just get the coil replaced even though they tell me not to do it. Other than this leak, everything seems to be working fine and has been fine for a long time. They service it twice a year and haven't had any issues.)

Do not repair this would be my suggestion. at 15 years, much better off with full replacement and get the 5 year warranty coverage. And yes, I think $5K -$7K is within range. Just replaced a 2ton unit last year for $5K installed.

[Doc]

The inside stuff (air handler) we had replaced a few years back was $4500 so you seem in the ball park. Part of the expense is location and accessibility.

[Darrell KSR]

Thanks, folks!

[Doc]

As VA cat said, dont repair. Replace the whole unit. The life on thise is 15, maybe 20 yrs. New gets you 10 yrs of warranty with peace of mind

[CitizenBBN]

Definitely in the ballpark. Esp. for a bigger company to do it.

How many square feet? 3.5 ton is a good average for a basic house with one zone, roughly 2,000 sf. many now have 2 or more zones, like one on each floor, and that is more efficient by far. For anything over about 1,700-1,800 in Alabama I would think 3.5 may be small, so maybe you have more than one?

To replace the whole unit is absolutely the best right now. First as Doc said, they wear out about 15-20 years almost completely.

But also, as the refrigerant gases used to run them have changed, it gets harder to get the older components to use with the now outdated refrigerant. If you just had your outside done I wonder which gas they used. I had my whole unit replaced last year b/c it was R22, which was the standard when I had it put in, but the outside unit (the compressor specifically) died and the whole unit was 19 years old, so I had them replace the whole system to use R410A, which is the new gas mix used.

The benefit is that the new units are much more efficient in many ways, and better for environment.

[CitizenBBN]

BTW the only reason I remember both of those refrigerant codes is that both apparently are named after gun calibers. I had a 22, I upgraded to a 410. was easy to remember, and HVAC guy thought I was nuts.

[blueboss]

Thanks, folks!

Call the man!!


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[ribbonfish]

R22 is no longer in production, banned in the world. You can still use it but no guarantee for top fill. Guess 32 is the latest but 410c or something should be fine. The case could be different in The States.


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[Darrell KSR]

The outside thing is new. It's not quite a year old. They did us right on that one.

All of this is the internal stuff. I don't know what anything is. I just come here, gripe, get people to comment to make sure I'm not doing anything totally stupid, then I call the man.

Side note... My autocorrect changed gripe to grope. I better be careful.

[CitizenBBN]

R22 is no longer in production, banned in the world. You can still use it but no guarantee for top fill. Guess 32 is the latest but 410c or something should be fine. The case could be different in The States.


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In the US the production and import is now banned as of 2020, so all that remains is what is in stock and recaptured supplies. So like in my case where the one unit was 19 years old and working but based on R22, so getting a legacy unit and R22 to top off made no sense. I just replaced the whole system.

R22 and R410A aren't compatible either in mix or in equipment bc of differences in heat transfer, etc., so best to just switch out any aging system when it starts to fail IMO. Kinda sucks on the money front, and I dread having to do it to the commercial unit at my gallery, but it is what it is and is still a wise decision once you are looking at a major fix.

[KeithKSR]

You mean the $5400 or $5800 is just for the coil and handler? Prices must be a lot higher in Birmingham than they are here.

[KeithKSR]

In the US the production and import is now banned as of 2020, so all that remains is what is in stock and recaptured supplies. So like in my case where the one unit was 19 years old and working but based on R22, so getting a legacy unit and R22 to top off made no sense. I just replaced the whole system.

R22 and R410A aren't compatible either in mix or in equipment bc of differences in heat transfer, etc., so best to just switch out any aging system when it starts to fail IMO. Kinda sucks on the money front, and I dread having to do it to the commercial unit at my gallery, but it is what it is and is still a wise decision once you are looking at a major fix.

My system is now 20 years old, but still works. I plan on getting it replaced this spring or summer, just procrastinating on my taxes to see what I owe the state and the federales.

Anyway, I think what I have is R22 and I figured I’d replace it while I can compare options as wait until it fails and need it ASAP. The need it now prices always seem much higher.

[CitizenBBN]

You mean the $5400 or $5800 is just for the coil and handler? Prices must be a lot higher in Birmingham than they are here.

For a company that's a little high for lexington IMO but not very high. I paid $7K for a complete system install but that guy moonlights from a regular job and does it on nights and weekends. Figure I'd have paid $8,500 or so from a company, and with some reworking we had to do I have that in it anyway.

Also depends on his access. If it's in the crawl that's a pain.

Then add the "lawyer" premium every business charges attorneys. Or are we not supposed to mention that still?

[Darrell KSR]

Yeah, it's just the internal stuff. It's in my garage which is attached to the house, very easy to get to. Outside big unit thing with the fan under the grates and all of it sitting on a concrete pad was replaced less than a year ago with a brand new Carrier unit. This is the brand new (well, less than a year old--replaced at the end of last summer):



The parts in the garage kinda look like this diagram. Sorta.




I think I get to keep my UV light thing above the return, or in the return, or something. I've heard somebody call something a "return" before, so that sounds right.

[kingcat]

Do not repair this would be my suggestion. at 15 years, much better off with full replacement and get the 5 year warranty coverage. And yes, I think $5K -$7K is within range. Just replaced a 2ton unit last year for $5K installed.

Truth!

What I know is I tried the repair thing on a unit and struggled one whole Summer with that decision. And I spent a lot of money (to me anyway) that was wasted. 200 bucks of that was for a sealer of some type which never had any positive effect at all.

[kingcat]

I'm going to change my mind after some research. If it's the (verticle I believe) evaporator coil which they can easily tell. The cost should be $800 to $1,500 to replace one.
Thats appears a common replacement of a mainly independent part. And warrantied independent of the rest of the system. The plenum return and all that is just a general hookup to the home for return air.
You've done spent the money on the outside and as long as a part can be warrantied separately why not imo?. By not reading I was thinking a self contained outside system

"Replacing a home air conditioner’s evaporator coil costs $1,000 on average with a typical range of $600 to $2,000. About 40% of the bill comes from labor, or $400 to $1,000. Warranties range from five to 12 years and cover the price of materials"

I think if your outside system was as old as the rest, a new system is wise. But being only a year old it would seem a huge waste to me.

You would have basically a new system anyway by replacing a single, yet critical 500 to 800 dollar part.

[CitizenBBN]

Darrell if outside unit is only a year old, and inside is 15 years, I'd ask which refrigerant they are using. I'm almost sure the equipment is not interchangeable unless the newer outside unit (condenser) is somehow backward compatible and they stayed with R22 due to the older unit or the whole system was put in originally with R410A. That's possible, it's been around that long, but as it was pricier at the time it wasn't used nearly as much.

I'm assuming you were on R410A all along, thus they just replaced the condenser last year and can now replace the inside unit with no issues.

If it's just a leak and the rest of the unit is fine, and it's all on the newer gas, then you could probably repair the coil/leak and then later still upgrade and use the newer coil, but there are issues with compatibility and cost, etc.

If the unit is in the garage and it's already on the right gas, then yeah that seems high. Not as high for a bigger company, but compared to what I can get it done for with my local guy it's high. I'd probably get a unit like that replaced for a little under $4K.

[KeithKSR]

Darrell if outside unit is only a year old, and inside is 15 years, I'd ask which refrigerant they are using. I'm almost sure the equipment is not interchangeable unless the newer outside unit (condenser) is somehow backward compatible and they stayed with R22 due to the older unit or the whole system was put in originally with R410A. That's possible, it's been around that long, but as it was pricier at the time it wasn't used nearly as much.

I'm assuming you were on R410A all along, thus they just replaced the condenser last year and can now replace the inside unit with no issues.

If it's just a leak and the rest of the unit is fine, and it's all on the newer gas, then you could probably repair the coil/leak and then later still upgrade and use the newer coil, but there are issues with compatibility and cost, etc.

If the unit is in the garage and it's already on the right gas, then yeah that seems high. Not as high for a bigger company, but compared to what I can get it done for with my local guy it's high. I'd probably get a unit like that replaced for a little under $4K.

I would think they evacuated the system of all the old gas when replacing the heat pump, then refilled with the new gas for the heat pump. The coils usually don’t care what kind of gas you use.

I’m surprised they didn’t recommend replacing the coil when they replaced the heat pump. It is much more economical to replace them together.

[CitizenBBN]

I would think they evacuated the system of all the old gas when replacing the heat pump, then refilled with the new gas for the heat pump. The coils usually don’t care what kind of gas you use.

I’m surprised they didn’t recommend replacing the coil when they replaced the heat pump. It is much more economical to replace them together.

In this case they would care. R410A operates at higher pressures than R22. It's a very different substance, and the hardware, esp. the compressor outside, isn't compatible. R22 compressors use mineral oil and it will react with R410A. I would imagine the pressure difference (I know R410A requires more than 50% more pressure than R22) would mean very few of the components are compatible.

My HVAC guy said the whole system has to go over to R410A and when I researched it he was right IMO.

That's why I'm confused as to what they did for Darrell a year ago. His system was more than likely R22 if it was 15 years old, and yet they only replaced the outside compressor? They would have had to have replaced the interior coils in order to switch to the required R410A, so either they did that and now want to do another replacement or they used R22 equipment and kept him R22?

color me confused.

[VirginiaCat]

I'm going to change my mind after some research. If it's the (verticle I believe) evaporator coil which they can easily tell. The cost should be $800 to $1,500 to replace one.
Thats appears a common replacement of a mainly independent part. And warrantied independent of the rest of the system. The plenum return and all that is just a general hookup to the home for return air.
You've done spent the money on the outside and as long as a part can be warrantied separately why not imo?. By not reading I was thinking a self contained outside system

"Replacing a home air conditioner’s evaporator coil costs $1,000 on average with a typical range of $600 to $2,000. About 40% of the bill comes from labor, or $400 to $1,000. Warranties range from five to 12 years and cover the price of materials"

I think if your outside system was as old as the rest, a new system is wise. But being only a year old it would seem a huge waste to me.

You would have basically a new system anyway by replacing a single, yet critical 500 to 800 dollar part.

I agree. I thought you were talking about the outside units.

[Darrell KSR]

ok...got a 2nd opinion. The guy that came out is the nephew of one of my very best friends. They have a 5* rating with over 200 reviews on (Google/Yelp/something). Good company, but smaller. Authorized Trane dealer, Carrier dealer, etc. Just a smaller company, based in Calera/Chelsea, servicing my county.

He said they should've matched up the coil and the outside condenser unit last year. There's a leak, might be as small as a pinhole leak. They said absolutely no reason to replace the furnace which looks in perfect condition.

$1850 + freon. Might be high; I don't know, but it will be a new Carrier evaporator coil and drier, and the guy said he would not be surprised to see the system last 15 more years before anything else is needed (including the non-replaced furnace).

[CitizenBBN]

He said they should've matched up the coil and the outside condenser unit last year.

That's not that high to do it all and do it right.

Did you find out what refrigerant you are running now? That's why I'm confused, b/c yes they should have matched up the units.

[Darrell KSR]

I didn't ask, but he didn't act like it was astronomically stupid for them to have done what they did--just "they should've" done it, almost like, "anybody with any common sense would've."

Here's the good part of this whole thing. We're going through the company for this, which is fine. But saving at least $500 on the repair, and saving $4k because we're not replacing parts that are working fine. And also getting a guy we know personally. He can do things on the side if we need him to do them. It just made sense for us the first time to use the company, get the company's warranty, etc.