Republican Civil War?

[catmanjack]

Enjoyed and always enjoy others perspective, thanks!

[Catfan73]

Protesters and police/guard clashing yes but basically the only property damage was all on the 29th.

[BigBluePappy]

Protesters and police/guard clashing yes but basically the only property damage was all on the 29th.

Maybe in your neck of the woods, but out here on the Jefferson/Bullitt county line the looting and rioting went on for about two weeks, but the media chose not to make that too well known. It might not have been to the degree of May 29th, but it did still go on out here, out the outer loop to New Cut road and the Jefferson Mall. I and my wife were witness to some of it and it wasn't just on May 29. As a matter of fact we couldn't wait to go to MBSC and leave all this foolishness in our rearview mirror with the grands and greats for a week. Stayed an extra day to keep from coming back...

[Padukacat]

Some really good and wise words spoken in this thread. I would encourage both sides to listen a bit more and scream a bit less because there isn’t one right answer for such a large and diverse country as our, but there is a solution that will allow our great nation to carry on as one nation. We are certainly going to test the possibilities of our existence in the coming years. 2020 has been a year of great reflection and learning for myself, and I must say my views of the world are changing, or maybe being formed as my knowledge and interest grows. It’s been interesting to come into this year with a fairly neutral political view and try to study and decipher what is true and real and right by me. I’m really figuring out what I believe is right, and I’m surprised so many people do disagree on what seems to be obviously right vs wrong. Some topics are difficult and may not have a right answer, but many do seem obvious to me and yet so many disagree. I’ve enjoyed this and honestly this board is one place I tend to cling to for hearing from people I know who are highly intelligent, on both sides.

[MickintheHam]

I had occasion just before Christmas to gather informally for a few hours with 8 Tea Party organizers. These people were grass roots organizers in Alabama years ago. Three hold office in the state Republican Party, two were delegates to the last two Republican conventions, and one was an organizer for Senator Tuberville and will be on his staff. For the record three of these people have been friends of mine for years, predating the Tea Party movement. I differ with some of their views, but have never let differences affect the friendship with very loyal friends. Needless to say I spent the evening listening, not wishing to debate. The conversation was fascinating and informative. Several of these people have worked in other states to organize Tea Parties and to work on National Campaigns for Senate, House and Presidential Candidates who are strong conservatives. They are very knowledgable of what is going on in the Trump Campaign, the Georgia Senate Races and in the various tea parties around the nation.

I can say with a lot of confidence, it will be the Tea Party organizers, the Republican Party officials, and Trump supporters fully working for the Georgia Republican Senate Candidates. Several of these people will be working in Georgia the next two weeks. There are no rifts between conservatives and Trump. And with the Democrat move to the radical left, the numbers of people supporting the Republican ideas are growing. I don't see it slowing down. The Mitt Romney's will either change or face stiff opposition in their next primary. My guess is all factions of the Republican Party will find a way to support other Republicans in the face of socialist agendas. There are no consequential fissures in the Republican Party in the post election period. There will be a shuffling within leadership, but many of the Trump ideas will live throughout a radical Presidency. Biden's toughest job will be to reign in radical democrats. Shumer and Pelosi have had a tough time to date.

[dan_bgblue]

There are no rifts between conservatives and Trump.

Here at home and in northern TN and southern OH, the Republican party supporters are a bit different. They fully support many of Trump's ideas, and his domestic and foreign policies. His major initiatives are fully supported and appreciated, but there is not much support for the man himself. He could not get elected for any office in any of those geographical areas unless he were running against a full blown loony liberal, and people would still search for an alternative to him.

In 4 years we will be looking for a replacement that will pic up the pieces and run sleepy Joe and his fake minority partner out of office.

[MickintheHam]

Here at home and in northern TN and southern OH, the Republican party supporters are a bit different. They fully support many of Trump's ideas, and his domestic and foreign policies. His major initiatives are fully supported and appreciated, but there is not much support for the man himself. He could not get elected for any office in any of those geographical areas unless he were running against a full blown loony liberal, and people would still search for an alternative to him.

In 4 years we will be looking for a replacement that will pic up the pieces and run sleepy Joe and his fake minority partner out of office.

Maybe you mis-read or misinterpreted what I said. I spoke of the Trump Campaign, not the man. Trump is the reason Trump lost, not his ideas.

[dan_bgblue]

Maybe you mis-read or misinterpreted what I said. I spoke of the Trump Campaign, not the man. Trump is the reason Trump lost, not his ideas.

I can say with a lot of confidence, it will be the Tea Party organizers, the Republican Party officials, and Trump supporters fully working for the Georgia Republican Senate Candidates.

There are no rifts between conservatives and Trump.

I am not sure what I misread, but am willing to say I did, and move on.

[MickintheHam]

I am distinguishing between Trump and Trump supporters. The man is the enigma. Many support him and do not like him. I believe we are saying the same thing.

[catmanjack]

Thanks, would enjoy hearing that discussion, I find the interest growing inside to understand the political moving and shaking.

[dan_bgblue]

[ukpumacat]

"If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed.......and we will deserve it."

Lindsey Graham

[UKHistory]

The GOP is already destroyed in terms of what it believed at its core.

It now favors Federal intervention of state sovereignty and disenfranchisement of voters.

It concedes the ideal of American exceptionalism in favor of transactional diplomacy. And oh yeah democracy as a preferred form of government.

[ukpumacat]

The GOP is already destroyed in terms of what it believed at its core.

It now favors Federal intervention of state sovereignty and disenfranchisement of voters.

It concedes the ideal of American exceptionalism in favor of transactional diplomacy. And oh yeah democracy as a preferred form of government.

What I am about to post is simply anecdotal. It may mean absolutely nothing. While I know that true Trump supporters are faithful until the end....and while I know there are many that are so against what they see as a shift toward socialism that they will stick with Trump and Republicans no matter what....not everyone will.

I have had two friends in the past two weeks who are staunch conservatives. Christian conservatives. Both voted for Trump twice. And both (in different words and in different ways) communicated to me they are done. They won't vote for a Dem, but they will never vote for another Republican after what they have seen after the election.

These are not moderates. These are hard core fiscal and social conservatives.

But both believe that to support Trump as many top Republicans have is to support autocracy and fascism. One called it the "most dangerous time in the history of our country".

Does this mean anything? Maybe not. But I would guess there are many more like them out there.

[ukpumacat]

One more odd and "only Trump" tidbit.

I listened to the entire one hour phone call. Its utter nonsensical rambling. Its all over the place. And then of course its illegal and seditious.
Besides all of that, there was one line that was just....odd.

At one point when Trump is talking to the SOS, he says to his lawyer, "You have a nice last name".

The lawyer's name is Ryan Germany. You just can't make this stuff up.

[UKHistory]

Here is an article in the Post today https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...555_story.html concerning the split within the party.

Puma, as for your friends I would say they are patriots for their decision to not support Trump and moving away from the party for now at least. I'd like to see the middle democrats and republicans come together to form a new party that better represents most Americans. Left or right, extremism is bad and both lead to authoritarianism.

At the heart of Trump's presidency is a commitment to a hedonistic quest for power that favors lawlessness and bully tactics. That must be fought at every instance.

[catmanjack]

Totally supported and needed!

Here is an article in the Post today https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...555_story.html concerning the split within the party.

Puma, as for your friends I would say they are patriots for their decision to not support Trump and moving away from the party for now at least. I'd like to see the middle democrats and republicans come together to form a new party that better represents most Americans. Left or right, extremism is bad and both lead to authoritarianism.

At the heart of Trump's presidency is a commitment to a hedonistic quest for power that favors lawlessness and bully tactics. That must be fought at every instance.

[kingcat]

Republicrats?

[BigBluePappy]

Libertarian?

[Catonahottinroof]

I doubt it would be libertarian. Libertarians are actually a pretty big tent that houses conservatives, liberals and a weird sect of anarchists. One thing most agree on, the government is too big, wields too much power and takes to much of its citizens money in the form of taxes. I’m not sure they would agree on much else though....

Libertarian?

[UKHistory]

Moderates are increasingly diminished in the primary process where party candidates are chose. Moderate approach to governing including the spirit of compromise has also been discouraged if not outright outlawed in part to elected officials being molded through the primary process and the end of pork projects AKA earmarks and directed awards of Federal funds.

The hyperbole and hatred on both sides also works to limit this spirit of compromise.

And yes, my strong opposition and fear of Donald Trump and his approach (some policies but his general behavior to people and nations) makes it hard to compromise too. Some good folks here are proud Republicans/conservatives (some more conservative than Republican) and they support Trump policies. So when I say Trump is the single, greatest threat to American democracy, I sound over the top.

I do sincerely believe it because even as we speak he is looking to overturn an election that he lost but still saw the GOP win seats in the House and potentially hold serve in the Senate. I am probably not a good messenger for moderation and compromise because my 4 year crusade warning of Trump's evils seems to some over the top and for many here unfounded.

I get that. But it is where I am at.

If we could get moderates to have the leading voice, work to reduce money in the elections and give voice to the People, I think we will be better off.

Now seventy some million Americans voted for Trump. More for Biden but Trump consolidated and expanded his base in four years and the will of a significant number of Americans, although losing in both the popular vote and electoral college and should not be ignored.

[ukpumacat]

Trump is about Trump. He knows he will not be the President on Jan 20th. This Georgia run-off doesn't matter a lick if he "won". He knows he is out.

But, this is about two things:

1. Money (and MOSTLY this). His campaign is in serious debt and he has used this "Election Fraud" nonsense to raise hundreds of millions of dollars, the vast vast majority of which he is able to use to pay off campaign debt and use for future litigation, etc.

2. Loyalty. Trump is always about people being loyal to him. He will toss someone under the bus in one second when they don't serve his purpose anymore. Today, he did that to Pence (who is currently meeting with him in the White House). Trump literally tweeted that Pence can reject that certification (Note: He CANNOT Constitutionally and knows this). So now, when Pence does not (and he won't), Trump's cult will now hate Pence.

All in all, every single Republican in office has to make the decision whether to be loyal to the constitution and their own values and beliefs or Trump. Most are simply choosing what is politically expedient for them.
Marco Rubio is my favorite (not in a good way). He used to be an actual moderate rising star. That guy has been chewed up and spit out by Trump so many times he literally is "Little Marco" now. He became a Trump lackey like everyone else and it won't matter a bit when Ivanka runs against him in 2022 for the Senate. Its fantastic to watch.

And again, the best part of all of this (for a Dem) is that it is dividing the Republican Party and that it makes it very very difficult for a Republican to win the Governor or Senate moving forward in many of these purple states.
Why?
Because an extreme candidate won't win the general and a moderate candidate who isn't loyal to Trump can't get out of the primary.

We are about to see this in Georgia. I believe Trump himself has now cost the Republicans the Senate. If he had of just shut up and gone away, I believe Reps would control it as I think the run offs would have split (or Republicans would have won both).
Now, I predict Warnock wins by a few points, and Osoff barely wins (although this one I think is a toss up).

And again, Republicans have no one to blame but themselves. You "sleep with the dog and you get the fleas". And this one is rabid.

[ukpumacat]

Its not like they didn't warn us:

https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/sta...565061633?s=20

[catmanjack]

Let’s not forget there are some real pieces of work on the Democratic side also.
Harris along with her pose would do real damage if allowed.
While Trump is over the top these ladies are as well.

[catmanjack]

Most if not all politicians are for themselves just look at how many are Millionaires, not when they started as politicians but when they left office.

[ukpumacat]

Most if not all politicians are for themselves just look at how many are Millionaires, not when they started as politicians but when they left office.

Absolutely. The vast majority on both sides are in it for themselves.

I will say that what Trump is doing is unlike anything we have ever seen a sitting President (or other) do before. Losing the election and then openly trying to overturn the results is something you see in authoritarian dictatorships. And the fact that some have gone along with it will not soon be forgotten.

Forget the next several years, History will not be kind on any of this.

And guys like Ben Sasse, Brian Kemp, etc will gain tons of respect from both sides of the aisle simply for doing the right thing. Who woulda thunk it?

And I should add, do I think the Dems are beneath ever doing this now that the precedent has been set? Absolutely not. Pandora's box has been opened.

And the scariest part about it all is that it actually could have worked had the Republicans controlled the House and Senate. That is absolutely frightening.

[ukpumacat]

I want to throw out one more thought on this from the Republican point of view (that I just saw a Republican strategist mention):

The worst thing that could ever happen to Republicans (nationally) would be for the electoral college to go away and we become a true democracy who uses the popular vote to decide elections. That would be a disaster for them.
And by doing what Trump is doing they are handing Dems the greatest piece of evidence they could use to try and do it.

I doubt that ever happens. But, Republicans simply cannot win the popular vote nationally anymore. Doing what they are doing is frankly not just unconstitutional and dangerous but its plain stupid for the future of their party.

[UKHistory]

It is stupid unless they work to nationalize elections and disenfranchising people.

Supporting Trump has already got conservatives abandoning states rights.

Absentee ballots that are mailed makes a lot of sense during a pandemic. Early voting that limits lines is great too.

I want every vote counted. I want 0 voter fraud. I personally don’t see a problem requiring photo ID but if dmvs are not open or near by communities that is an issue.

But GOP really abandoning It’s principles in support of Trump

[catmanjack]

I kind of see the reason Republicans cannot win the popular vote is because of the mistales/lies being told, when you allow the 25 and under to dictate the election based on socialist direction, eliminating college debt, huge direction towards the Environmental elimination of gas and oil because they have a belief the planet will be destroyed within 5 years. That has a huge impact on elections huge!

I want to throw out one more thought on this from the Republican point of view (that I just saw a Republican strategist mention):

The worst thing that could ever happen to Republicans (nationally) would be for the electoral college to go away and we become a true democracy who uses the popular vote to decide elections. That would be a disaster for them.
And by doing what Trump is doing they are handing Dems the greatest piece of evidence they could use to try and do it.

I doubt that ever happens. But, Republicans simply cannot win the popular vote nationally anymore. Doing what they are doing is frankly not just unconstitutional and dangerous but its plain stupid for the future of their party.

[catmanjack]

I live with 3 under 25’s and their whole reason for voting as the 25 year old told me was the a socialist government sounds pretty good and to get her college debt elimination.
The 21 year old stated global warming and her desire to protect the animals.
Wow really and on top of that I am a 50 year old racist that knows zero about life! Lol.
That is the biggest issue when it comes to elections.