Republican Civil War?

[kingcat]

It is a war on the United States from within in hopes of establishing a Putin like fake presidency.
An action that at some point would be met with an even more militant and justifiable fervor by the majority.

It is approaching treason in some ranks and should be dealt with as such. It's time to call it what it is and force people to examine their loyalties.

[ukpumacat]

Proud Boys/Trump supporters beating a couple (man and woman) in Washington DC after their rally. Granted, we don’t know what started this; but it’s obvious the couple is trying to walk away.

https://twitter.com/vinnyboyxi/statu...127912960?s=21

[kingcat]

Proud Boys/Trump supporters beating a couple (man and woman) in Washington DC after their rally. Granted, we don’t know what started this; but it’s obvious the couple is trying to walk away.

https://twitter.com/vinnyboyxi/statu...127912960?s=21

It is what it is.

[UKHistory]

Proud Boys/Trump supporters beating a couple (man and woman) in Washington DC after their rally. Granted, we don’t know what started this; but it’s obvious the couple is trying to walk away.

https://twitter.com/vinnyboyxi/statu...127912960?s=21

Brown shirts. Goose steppers. Even if that couple were out of line you call the police. Trump has unleashed the worst of our country on itself.

[Catfan73]

It’s disgusting that these people drape themselves in the flag that so many have sacrificed and died for.

[catmanjack]

Did we not see a group supported by Democrats burning flags this summer?

[catmanjack]

This thought that some parties are such good people while others are not is getting old!
Both side are not really doing all that well.
Criminals everywhere and a lot are Democrats.

[ukpumacat]

This thought that some parties are such good people while others are not is getting old!
Both side are not really doing all that well.

I certainly don't think that. Lots of bad apples to go around on both sides indeed. I will say as to the twitter link that I do agree with my friend UKHistory above.

[catmanjack]

I agree also there is zero support for those kind.

[KentuckyWildcat]

This thought that some parties are such good people while others are not is getting old!

Amen! Only arrogance thinks otherwise IMO

[ukpumacat]

https://twitter.com/talbertswan/stat...932363265?s=21

[UKHistory]

There is no thought or position that has been promoted on this site to suggest that democrats are good and republicans are bad.

We have heard many times how democrats are UnAmerican and unpatriotic on this board. Instead of quickly condemning bad behavior on the Conservative/Republican side the first response is Democrats are bad too.

Rarely in the conversations here does anyone on the conservative side criticize or condemn those on their own side.

There is a lack of willingness on the part of many people on the conservative side to say "yes. this was wrong on my guy/party's part and it must be condemned." No. It would appear that the end justifies the means for one side even if it means very fundamental conservatives views such as states' rights is thrown out the window to ensure their side wins.

I am a former Republican (who I guess is viewed as a Rhino or worse here) who could not stand with Donald Trump. Liberals don't call me liberal.

My concern about Trump and his threat to the rule of law and small "d" democratic principles would seem to be well founded.

In terms of voter integrity, we as a nation had a wake up call in the 2000 election to review election machines, procedures, etc.

Not a lot happened then. There is a big emphasis on states' rights and the responsibility of individual states establish its own procedures to carryout elections. And the issue went by the wayside.

With the concern of foreign influence in the 2016 election, there was a big push by Democrats to invest more money into securing the integrity of the election. Mitch McConnell wouldn't hear of it.

This election was going to generate a massive turnout as Trump is a lightening rod. He began his campaign to run in 2020 the day after he was sworn into office. Many of us have been campaigning against him and waiting to vote him out since day one.

So we were going to get a big crowd. Absentee/mail-in voting has increasingly become popular across the country. I voted early for John McCain, for example, back in 2008.

During an unprecedented pandemic that will see around 300,000 dead by new years, promoting early voting (that is what we did this year) and absentee mail in ballots seems like a great decision to me.

While the idea was squelched fairly quickly Trump did raise the possibility of not holding an election due to the pandemic. Trump, Kushner, Don Jr. all were quoted as raising speculation to try and not hold the election.

Trump then has railed against mail-in/absentee voting long before the ballots were cast. He planted seeds of doubt in this election very early. Heck in 2016 Trump ended his campaign talking about the system being rigged and that he would not think the electoral college is fair. Of course he won the electoral college and shut up about it.

Trump was a horrible winner in 2016 (his American carnage speech was the most tragic and stark view of America ever shared in a inaugural address) and is being a horrible loser in 2020.

The subject of this thread questions the possibility of a Republican Civil War? I don't think there will be one. The few Republican members of Congress will be subsumed by Trump and GOP will embrace a move to authoritarianism many thought not possible to take foothold in American politics.

And certainly democrats are not perfect and yes the far left could establish its own version of authoritarianism. In some circles of cancel culture they have done this. It is a danger but danger is even clearer and growing on the Republican party now.

The ultimate in counter culture is nullifying votes we don't agree with. The ultimate cancel culture is when Texas has the audacity to attempt to cancel the votes in Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc when those states voted differently than the Lone Star State.

This weekend the it would seem that the Proud Boys and their ilk have gone from standing back and standing by to entering the fray.

(note I corrected my misuse of the phrase counter culture; I meant cancel culture).

[UKHistory]

https://twitter.com/talbertswan/stat...932363265?s=21

I condemn this action as I condemn all forms of looting, violence, and the destruction of public and private property. This also shows that when businesses in DC boarded up their doors and windows, it was extremists on either political spectrum, agitators on BOTH SIDES they feared. Proud Boys are the equivalent (edited for clarity)to the radical anarchists on the left. Criminals such as these will use any excuse to perpetuate violence and intimidation.

[ukpumacat]

There is no thought or position that has been promoted on this site to suggest that democrats are good and republicans are bad.

We have heard many times how democrats are UnAmerican and unpatriotic on this board. Instead of quickly condemning bad behavior on the Conservative/Republican side the first response is Democrats are bad too.

Rarely in the conversations here does anyone on the conservative side criticize or condemn those on their own side.

There is a lack of willingness on the part of many people on the conservative side to say "yes. this was wrong on my guy/party's part and it must be condemned." No. It would appear that the end justifies the means for one side even if it means very fundamental conservatives views such as states' rights is thrown out the window to ensure their side wins.

I am a former Republican (who I guess is viewed as a Rhino or worse here) who could not stand with Donald Trump. Liberals don't call me liberal.

My concern about Trump and his threat to the rule of law and small "d" democratic principles would seem to be well founded.

In terms of voter integrity, we as a nation had a wake up call in the 2000 election to review election machines, procedures, etc.

Not a lot happened then. There is a big emphasis on states' rights and the responsibility of individual states establish its own procedures to carryout elections. And the issue went by the wayside.

With the concern of foreign influence in the 2016 election, there was a big push by Democrats to invest more money into securing the integrity of the election. Mitch McConnell wouldn't hear of it.

This election was going to generate a massive turnout as Trump is a lightening rod. He began his campaign to run in 2020 the day after he was sworn into office. Many of us have been campaigning against him and waiting to vote him out since day one.

So we were going to get a big crowd. Absentee/mail-in voting has increasingly become popular across the country. I voted early for John McCain, for example, back in 2008.

During an unprecedented pandemic that will see around 300,000 dead by new years, promoting early voting (that is what we did this year) and absentee mail in ballots seems like a great decision to me.

While the idea was squelched fairly quickly Trump did raise the possibility of not holding an election due to the pandemic. Trump, Kushner, Don Jr. all were quoted as raising speculation to try and not hold the election.

Trump then has railed against mail-in/absentee voting long before the ballots were cast. He planted seeds of doubt in this election very early. Heck in 2016 Trump ended his campaign talking about the system being rigged and that he would not think the electoral college is fair. Of course he won the electoral college and shut up about it.

Trump was a horrible winner in 2016 (his American carnage speech was the most tragic and stark view of America ever shared in a inaugural address) and is being a horrible loser in 2020.

The subject of this thread questions the possibility of a Republican Civil War? I don't think there will be one. The few Republican members of Congress will be subsumed by Trump and GOP will embrace a move to authoritarianism many thought not possible to take foothold in American politics.

And certainly democrats are not perfect and yes the far left could establish its own version of authoritarianism. In some circles of counter culture they have done this. It is a danger but danger is even clearer and growing on the Republican party now.

The ultimate in counter culture is nullifying votes we don't agree with. The ultimate counter culture is when Texas has the audacity to attempt to cancel the votes in Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc when those states voted differently than the Lone Star State.

This weekend the it would seem that the Proud Boys and their ilk have gone from standing back and standing by to entering the fray.

Tons of great thoughts here.

[catmanjack]

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/77310753.cms

[catmanjack]

The flag burning is a total disrespect for the United States and should never happen.

[UKHistory]

The flag burning is a total disrespect for the United States and should never happen.

100%. What is also a total disrespect of the United States is the KKK, neo-nazis and white supremacists. Disenfranchising the rights of its citizenry is right there with it.

[catmanjack]

All those groups are domestic terrorist groups and should be dealt with accordingly.

[UKHistory]

All those groups are domestic terrorist groups and should be dealt with accordingly.

Absolutely. And one can't peacefully assemble and destroy property. Setting fires is unsafe. I hate to see the American flag burnt. It angers me under any circumstance. I find it counter productive to any change in national policy.

I want to add the Proud Boys in that same group based on what I have seen coming from DC this weekend.

[ukpumacat]

https://twitter.com/talbertswan/stat...932363265?s=21

Btw, I should mention in case it isn't clear in the video. The banner they are burning was torn down off of a church. Several other churches were vandalized by the Proud Boys/Trump supporters as well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...aff_story.html

[UKHistory]

that sign, whatever your opinion of blm, hung on a church. terrorism; religious persecution; destruction of private property; and other charges.

All of offenders committing such crimes, regardless of political affiliation or purpose in protesting, should be prosecuted for destruction of property and violence.

[catmanjack]

The frustration comes when in your city the riots and destruction is allowed to continue for months while they tear your city apart and then the mayor wants to use taxpayer money to clean up the city that he could not control.
Yes each should be prosecuted to the fullest.

[MickintheHam]

Absolutely. And one can't peacefully assemble and destroy property. Setting fires is unsafe. I hate to see the American flag burnt. It angers me under any circumstance. I find it counter productive to any change in national policy.

I want to add the Proud Boys in that same group based on what I have seen coming from DC this weekend.

Of course you only post these noble thoughts after Trump supporters create a disturbance in your city. Your statements would have had much more credibility had they been posted after riots in NYC, Minneapolis or Louisville.

[UKHistory]

Of course you only post these noble thoughts after Trump supporters create a disturbance in your city. Your statements would have had much more credibility had they been posted after riots in NYC, Minneapolis or Louisville.

Mick,

You think what you want. And you will. I don't have to justify myself to a damn person on this board...let alone you.

And I am pretty sure I have said throughout the summer that there is no justification for violence. I know I have said that in these posts. I have also said that violence and destruction of property do not coexist with a peaceful demonstration.

I also said that while police have a difficult job brutality and abuse of civil liberty should not be tolerated. Law enforcement has a duty to serve and protect and not search and destroy. I am sure I posted the grave danger in Trump urging the use of military troops in the street and condemned his clearing of the area outside the White House prior to curfew for his photo op.

I am glad you think my words are noble. Because they are in this case. It would have been easy to say you agree with me; it would have been easy to find common ground. But you did not choose to do so.

Once again we have a conservative member of this board who has an opportunity to say, "I too condemn looters and violence of all stripes. Those protesters do not represent me".

But you didn't. What did you do? You came to mock me. You could not just say in this one case we agree. So I have to ask since you have gotten personal with me:

Do you stand with Goose steppers who desecrate private property and burn a sign from a church?

That is what we are talking about. That BLM sign was on church property and it was torn down. You may not agree with that message from a church but it was private property of a church that those people destroyed.

If you are unwilling to call out the brown shirts who are politically aligned with your larger political position, I have to ask would you personally march with those brown shirts?

You have questioned my integrity in this post. I question your integrity--directly, honestly and openly.

Do you live by the Constitution? Or do you wrap yourself in it to justify the American brown shirts goose stepping over the liberty of others?

If you think my words were noble stand with me where we agree on the larger points.

[UKHistory]

The frustration comes when in your city the riots and destruction is allowed to continue for months while they tear your city apart and then the mayor wants to use taxpayer money to clean up the city that he could not control.
Yes each should be prosecuted to the fullest.

I got a double fist of that this summer. I was born in Louisville. That is home. So I hate to see what transpired. It breaks my heart. I watched in horror as vandals and looters destroyed property in DC too.

Seeing the violence in Louisville was hard. And very honestly I have had to deal with some white collar crime that has made not only come back to supporting the death penalty, I wanted it expanded to include white collar criminals as well.

We have to cool down and see how we can do better.

First off police, we need to support law enforcement properly. It is an incredibly tough job. Part of support is training and tactics. Part of the support is changes in the law. Part of that is how people treat the police. Another topic for another time.

If memory serves I think you said that this was the first election in which you casted a vote. If I am remembering correctly, that is awesome.

We are in disagreement on some issues and I am sorry you voted the way you did, but I celebrate you exercising the franchise.

I'd rather all Americans vote and get involved than ignore it. Keep the lines open and listen to folks but keep voting.

[Catfan73]

Louisville had one day of what could be termed rioting or looting or whatever you want to call it, May 29th I think it was. There’s been the occasional broken window since then but the rest has just been protesters.

[UKHistory]

I am not sure about one day. I remember the police shooting the pepper spray at the wdrb reporter. I remember the chicken stand guy getting shot (after he may have fired at or at least in the vicinity of the police). The black militia discharged a rifle and hit a few of their own.

The whole situation has seemed tense and terrible watching things on-line and fearing for loved ones driving to Louisville, doctor appointments down town, etc.

[catmanjack]

Way more then one day.

[catmanjack]

I do not like or appreciate trump and many of his actions but I stayed the course and voted Republican because I do not believe in a lot of the policies being supported by the Democratic Party.
The drive towards a socialist government
Medical for all
Huge green deal
Eliminating gas and oil
I see these policies as control and dictating.
I am a free American and have worked extremely hard in my life to build my reputation and respect.
Not in line with the constant free handouts and the constant tax hikes.
You did mention some positives towards the police which I agree.
I feel the racial bias is a narrative that the NAACP and BLM need to keep drawing in the money, if those groups actually wanted to help their people it would be so much different.

[UKHistory]

I do not like or appreciate trump and many of his actions but I stayed the course and voted Republican because I do not believe in a lot of the policies being supported by the Democratic Party.
The drive towards a socialist government
Medical for all
Huge green deal
Eliminating gas and oil
I see these policies as control and dictating.
I am a free American and have worked extremely hard in my life to build my reputation and respect.
Not in line with the constant free handouts and the constant tax hikes.
You did mention some positives towards the police which I agree.
I feel the racial bias is a narrative that the NAACP and BLM need to keep drawing in the money, if those groups actually wanted to help their people it would be so much different.

I hear you. Thanks for sharing your rationale. There are legitimate concerns about the left and taken to an extreme those policies would harm America. Just like in my view right wing policies taken to the extreme hurt America.

Me I have issues with Al Sharpton and those who want to paint everything is about race. That said I think race issues do impact and influence things in society that we don't always fully appreciate. Sometimes it is yes. Sometimes is no. There is bias and racial prejudice in my view. There is also misunderstandings in communication that impact. There are also bad guys on both sides.

Bad police or police who made an error. And criminals who are bad guys. In both instances that are not enough people willing to see that "their side" might be to blame.

There is a lot to digest. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.