Republican Civil War?

[ukpumacat]

I am asking this as an honest question and not hyperbole.


I ask because of this rally today in Georgia: https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/s...115484161?s=20

Sidney Powell and Lin Wood both are telling very very loyal Trump supporters not to vote for Loeffler or Perdue. It will not take very many Republicans staying home to give those two seats to the Dems.

Which begs the question: what happens over the next 4 years?

Republicans had a mini-Civil War with the Tea Party several years back. Will that happen again with Trumpism?

I have no doubt Trump will declare for 2024 to raise money to pay off debt. I am not so positive he actually runs. But, if he does, what happens? Many Republican candidates cannot call him out and hold their seats in the primary. But, the road he is taking the party down right now isn't a winning one.

What do you guys think will happen over the next several years in this regard?

[Catfan73]

It’s mind boggling the level of fealty these people demand that they would jeopardize control of the Senate just to prove their point that Trump is the only way. In recent history the Republican Party has been a combination of different factions...social conservatives, free market believers, foreign policy hawks...Trump is none of those yet his followers are intent on making the party theirs. I don’t see it lasting much past Jan. 20th.

[Catonahottinroof]

The left had its own civil war with the squad, BLM and the very hard left wanting socialism at any cost. It didn’t accomplish much as they were rewarded with Biden.
Id bet Trump will persist with 2024 for one simple reason....the market is going to correct, or crash within the next 4 years and it won’t be on his watch.

[catmanjack]

The economic side will truly be a thing to watch.

[catmanjack]

I wish I was retiring this year while the market is up to help my 401K.

[Catfan73]

We’re pretty certain to have a correction soon but they usually only last about six months while the bull markets typically last for years so the chances of a downturn in 2024 are historically pretty slim. I kind of like the big dips, that when stocks are on the clearance rack. Of course if you’re close to retiring, best to avoid the dip.

[ukpumacat]

The left had its own civil war with the squad, BLM and the very hard left wanting socialism at any cost. It didn’t accomplish much as they were rewarded with Biden.
Id bet Trump will persist with 2024 for one simple reason....the market is going to correct, or crash within the next 4 years and it won’t be on his watch.

Well, they didn't but certainly will at some point. Trump solidified the party big time. If Biden had of lost, you would have seen one for sure. And "Civil War" is a strong term but it happens and it can be a good thing. Just curious how this all plays out.

[Catonahottinroof]

The burning and looting of businesses and the tacit approval of some on the left, mayors in particular fomented it....and it’s not going to be a good thing when it comes down to brass tacks, because a good portion of this country is armed and loaded and are the ones buying ammunition that is in short supply at the moment.

Well, they didn't but certainly will at some point. Trump solidified the party big time. If Biden had of lost, you would have seen one for sure. And "Civil War" is a strong term but it happens and it can be a good thing. Just curious how this all plays out.

[ukpumacat]

The burning and looting of businesses and the tacit approval of some on the left, mayors in particular fomented it....and it’s not going to be a good thing when it comes down to brass tacks, because a good portion of this country is armed and loaded and are the ones buying ammunition that is in short supply at the moment.

I think I should be clear. I don't mean an "Actual" civil war. I meant it figuratively. As in, a political divide in the party for power.

[Catonahottinroof]

At their moment, I’m not sure I can separate the two....

I think I should be clear. I don't mean an "Actual" civil war. I meant it figuratively. As in, a political divide in the party for power.

[ukpumacat]

At their moment, I’m not sure I can separate the two....

Understood. But, I can. I wasn't asking if Trumpers and Republicans will start firing bullets. I just wonder whether there will be a serious external fight for power of the party.

It is very very unusual to hold a press conference and tell your supporters to NOT vote for the Republican candidates. Trump is about Trump. He doesn't give two cents if those two are elected. And I think his tweets, videos, etc are going to hurt them.

[kingcat]

Deleted my last post. Suffice it to say such rhetoric is disappointing in America.
It's like stepping back in time eighty years or so.

[catmanjack]

I kind of am disappointed in America as she stands now, guy wearing dresses, the total laziness and lack of respect not a good look.

[ukpumacat]

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/13...619421696?s=21

I guess it’s begun.

[VirginiaCat]

I have been very clear with local GOP leadership and even contacted Ronna McDaniel...

I amout of the GOP unless I see them stepping up and fully contesting this counts in NV, AZ, MI, WI, PA, and GA.

Stats do not lie. And the numbers over 4 Std. Dev. form the norm of the rest of the country. Video evidence in GA. Hundreds of people saying they witnessed fraud.

At a minimum, ZERO Signiture check or other verification of mail in ballots but did verify on voter rolls for those in person is a problem of equal treatment.

All the GOP should be screaming about.

They will lose AT LEAST 20 million voters if they do not step up and full press to ensure Biden is not POTUS. And I will be one of them.

I am asking this as an honest question and not hyperbole.


I ask because of this rally today in Georgia: https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/s...115484161?s=20

Sidney Powell and Lin Wood both are telling very very loyal Trump supporters not to vote for Loeffler or Perdue. It will not take very many Republicans staying home to give those two seats to the Dems.

Which begs the question: what happens over the next 4 years?

Republicans had a mini-Civil War with the Tea Party several years back. Will that happen again with Trumpism?

I have no doubt Trump will declare for 2024 to raise money to pay off debt. I am not so positive he actually runs. But, if he does, what happens? Many Republican candidates cannot call him out and hold their seats in the primary. But, the road he is taking the party down right now isn't a winning one.

What do you guys think will happen over the next several years in this regard?

[ukpumacat]

I have been very clear with local GOP leadership and even contacted Ronna McDaniel...

I amout of the GOP unless I see them stepping up and fully contesting this counts in NV, AZ, MI, WI, PA, and GA.

Stats do not lie. And the numbers over 4 Std. Dev. form the norm of the rest of the country. Video evidence in GA. Hundreds of people saying they witnessed fraud.

At a minimum, ZERO Signiture check or other verification of mail in ballots but did verify on voter rolls for those in person is a problem of equal treatment.

All the GOP should be screaming about.

They will lose AT LEAST 20 million voters if they do not step up and full press to ensure Biden is not POTUS. And I will be one of them.

The lawsuits have been 1-41 in court so far. This election is not going to be overturned. I could easily go through state by state and show you precise facts to prove it. But, I won't. Because, I gotta tell you from a Dem perspective...this is the best of all worlds.

Because if there are more Republicans like you (and I suspect there are tons), Dems are going to win both seats in Georgia and have a majority.
And your comments seem to say that the divide in the party is very very real.

Its horrible strategy Imo, but its happening. And I would not be shocked in any way if there are Dems behind some of the misinformation out there getting Trumpers riled up.

[VirginiaCat]

The lawsuits have been 1-41 in court so far. This election is not going to be overturned. I could easily go through state by state and show you precise facts to prove it. But, I won't. Because, I gotta tell you from a Dem perspective...this is the best of all worlds.

Because if there are more Republicans like you (and I suspect there are tons), Dems are going to win both seats in Georgia and have a majority.
And your comments seem to say that the divide in the party is very very real.

Its horrible strategy Imo, but its happening. And I would not be shocked in any way if there are Dems behind some of the misinformation out there getting Trumpers riled up.

It is real.. and you are correct. the Trump people will not vote in GA.

Why, because the GOP are partly behind that court record. Lets be honest, the globalist elite of the GOP, the controling members, do not want Trump Either.

But in 2022 and 2024, look out. Both major parties will suck hind tit.

[ukpumacat]

If I were a Republican, this would frighten me to death.

And I don't agree about 2022 and 2024. Without a united Republican Party, Dems will win a substantial amount of elections.

Independents and moderate Republicans see all of this as crazy town. And solid Trump supporters will vilify any Republican who does not agree with them as "part of the establishment". Heck, Dan Crenshaw was under fire a couple of days ago for it: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...aw-john-mccai/

Its all a recipe for political disaster.

And even though there are plenty of solid Trump supporters, there aren't nearly enough to carry any national or purple statewide races.

For 4 years those same Republicans rode Trump's coattails and refused to hold him at bay out of fear of exactly what is happening right now. But Trump doesn't care about the Republican Party. They let him roam free and now they are going to get bitten.

[VirginiaCat]

If I were a Republican, this would frighten me to death.

And I don't agree about 2022 and 2024. Without a united Republican Party, Dems will win a substantial amount of elections.

Independents and moderate Republicans see all of this as crazy town. And solid Trump supporters will vilify any Republican who does not agree with them as "part of the establishment". Heck, Dan Crenshaw was under fire a couple of days ago for it: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...aw-john-mccai/

Its all a recipe for political disaster.

And even though there are plenty of solid Trump supporters, there aren't nearly enough to carry any national or purple statewide races.

For 4 years those same Republicans rode Trump's coattails and refused to hold him at bay out of fear of exactly what is happening right now. But Trump doesn't care about the Republican Party. They let him roam free and now they are going to get bitten.

What you call a moderate I call a globalist. That is the real fight in the GOP.

Traditional Globalist GOP vs. Populist GOP.

[Catonahottinroof]

The thing about that particular point is it encompasses many democratic voters as well.

What you call a moderate I call a globalist. That is the real fight in the GOP.

Traditional Globalist GOP vs. Populist GOP.

[dan_bgblue]

The globalist trend in the democratic party is one of my biggest issues with the policy they put forth. Even though he has a ton of faults, globalism is not one of the faults of our current president. Of all the traits that have made the United states one of the greatest countries in the world, globalism has not been one of them. Yes we have stuck our fingers into issues all over the world, but when we did it was to keep the USA strong and in a position of leadership in the world.

[ukpumacat]

What you call a moderate I call a globalist. That is the real fight in the GOP.

Traditional Globalist GOP vs. Populist GOP.

It doesn’t matter what you call them (and you may be right), it’s a simple mathematics problem.
Roughly 49% of voters are Democrats or lean Dem.
43% are Republican or lean Republican.

So, for a Republican to win in a National election (or a purple state vote) they HAVE to have all of those 43%. This includes the moderates or globalists or whatever else you want to call it.
We are a two party country right now. Until that changes, the only way to win is for a party to unite and work together to beat the other side.
What is happening in Georgia right now and with Trump supporters everywhere make it mathematically impossible to do this.

Maybe it’s all talk. Maybe Georgia voters come out all the same and vote Republican. But if you are trying to get your voters to come out and keep the Senate....telling them their Governor and SOS is a crook and they can’t trust the election process is a horrible strategy.

[VirginiaCat]

It doesn’t matter what you call them (and you may be right), it’s a simple mathematics problem.
Roughly 49% of voters are Democrats or lean Dem.
43% are Republican or lean Republican.

So, for a Republican to win in a National election (or a purple state vote) they HAVE to have all of those 43%. This includes the moderates or globalists or whatever else you want to call it.
We are a two party country right now. Until that changes, the only way to win is for a party to unite and work together to beat the other side.
What is happening in Georgia right now and with Trump supporters everywhere make it mathematically impossible to do this.

Maybe it’s all talk. Maybe Georgia voters come out all the same and vote Republican. But if you are trying to get your voters to come out and keep the Senate....telling them their Governor and SOS is a crook and they can’t trust the election process is a horrible strategy.

I understand your math but disagree with your premise. Overall percentages simply do not matter. It is the percentages in about 6-10 states that matter. And in those states it is more close to 55% conservative. The overall demographics of our country do not matter since large population centers like Cali, NY, and IL are 60% Blue.

But, i do understand what you are saying. If the R's are infighting, it is unlikely they can win.

For me, it is time to run the RINO's out of the party. Tell them they are not welcome.

[ukpumacat]

But, i do understand what you are saying. If the R's are infighting, it is unlikely they can win.

For me, it is time to run the RINO's out of the party. Tell them they are not welcome.

So if you do that, how can you win?

[VirginiaCat]

So if you do that, how can you win?

Temp setback for long term gain. I hope. But in the end, I do not want to simply align with someone or some party because they are a party. I want to be aligned on most (never going to be all) interests.

And the Romney/Flakes and others in the R party need to go away. Forever.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

So if you do that, how can you win?

They can't and I am perfectly fine with what it is that they are doing from a political standpoint. From a unity standpoint, it's terrible. Rush Limbaugh said what we all know how those on the right feel, that liberals and conservatives cannot live together. I don't believe that for a second, but I definitely believe that there is about 40-50 million Americans that think that.

Temp setback for long term gain. I hope. But in the end, I do not want to simply align with someone or some party because they are a party. I want to be aligned on most (never going to be all) interests.

And the Romney/Flakes and others in the R party need to go away. Forever.

Such an extreme POV, when combined with the rest of what you have posted, especially your desire to thwart Democracy and overturn the will of the people by invalidating an election that has been certified by every state and Republican leaders.

Getting rid of Romney, Flake, and the likes is extreme. They supported the Trump agenda. They support the Constitution (at least a Conservative interpretation of it). They do not support authoritarianism. That last point is the only difference between the two factions of the party.

Talk of overturning legitimate elections, secession and violence (not accusing you of saying all of this), but they are words of traitors.

What is the "long term gain" that you speak of? I am having trouble seeing that align with Democracy.

[VirginiaCat]

They can't and I am perfectly fine with what it is that they are doing from a political standpoint. From a unity standpoint, it's terrible. Rush Limbaugh said what we all know how those on the right feel, that liberals and conservatives cannot live together. I don't believe that for a second, but I definitely believe that there is about 40-50 million Americans that think that.




Such an extreme POV, when combined with the rest of what you have posted, especially your desire to thwart Democracy and overturn the will of the people by invalidating an election that has been certified by every state and Republican leaders.

Getting rid of Romney, Flake, and the likes is extreme. They supported the Trump agenda. They support the Constitution (at least a Conservative interpretation of it). They do not support authoritarianism. That last point is the only difference between the two factions of the party.

Talk of overturning legitimate elections, secession and violence (not accusing you of saying all of this), but they are words of traitors.

What is the "long term gain" that you speak of? I am having trouble seeing that align with Democracy.

illegally cast and counted ballots is a thwart to democracy, not vice versa. And what is sad is that is what you and your ilk do not understand. It is truly sad and likely to end either in violence or in the breaking up of this country.

Romney and Flake have NEVER supported the Trump agenda. They support their personal agendas of being more than they are.

Simply put, your world POV and mine will never align...and I am not sure anymore then can coexist in the same country....

[KentuckyWildcat]

To be a civil war...they would have to know why they are fighting. IMO, they have never known the direction of their party or at least have never been able to communicate it. The main reason I have never cared for the republican party.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

illegally cast and counted ballots is a thwart to democracy, not vice versa. And what is sad is that is what you and your ilk do not understand. It is truly sad and likely to end either in violence or in the breaking up of this country.

Romney and Flake have NEVER supported the Trump agenda. They support their personal agendas of being more than they are.

Simply put, your world POV and mine will never align...and I am not sure anymore then can coexist in the same country....

The problem with your POV is that it is completely based on nothing. No facts. No evidence. It really makes it hard to give you ANY credibility at all. I understand that you have your POV, but like the old saying goes, you can't own your own facts.

What I see right now is that you are aligning yourself to a man that has a pattern of crying election fraud every time he loses. This is not a unique situation. Can you explain the Trump court record concerning this election, why none of the claims in court even address fraud?

Also, as far as your comment about Romney/Flake NEVER supporting the Trump agenda, that too is absolutely false. Here is the evidence to support that for Romney. Here it is for Flake.

How does this not align with your previous statement of "I want to be aligned on most (never going to be all) interests."? You see, you don't even believe what you actually say. I would say that 81-82% alignment to the Trump agenda totally fits that. I don't even have percentages that high with my wife or friends.

The only logical conclusion that I can come to is that you simply prefer authoritarianism over Democracy. Lies over truth. Fiction over Fact. You are not alone, though. You have comfort with around 50 million Americans. That FACT is what frightens the rest of us.

You still have not elaborated on the "long term gain". What does that look like? Would you like to clarify or allow us to assume? I'm not asking these questions to be condescending. I ask these questions to understand why people feel this way. You are not the only person that I ask this, but every time that I do, I get complete nonsense that is easy to fact check, which really brings me back to the same conclusion.

EDIT:

I had to go back and reread your post to which I am replying and one thing stood out to me. You say that differing POV's cannot coexist in the same country. To me, that is nonsense. Differing ideologies, differing backgrounds, differing perspectives is what makes this nation thrive. What you are saying IS the definition of intolerance and statements like that further validates my perspectives. Why does it have to be that if you cannot get your way that we cannot have a country?

[Catfan73]

I’ve decided the fact that the vast majority of Republicans in Congress still refuse to accept the election results—at least the results in the presidential race—makes a Republican civil war seem unlikely. At this point, one has to assume that most of them are perfectly fine with Trump at the helm. It’s but the latest symptom of the GOP’s descent into authoritarianism.

The party as it stands now has absolutely no aversion to going against long-standing Democratic norms in its attempts to remain in power. This is authoritarianism. With but a couple of notable exceptions like Romney defending the election results, it’s obvious Trump is far from the only member of the GOP that has issues with one of our key Democratic norms, our electoral process. Another warning sign is that half the party seems to think that any political opponent is illegitimate, no matter how many people disagree with them and vote for that opponent. This is authoritarianism. I’m not sure how the party starts digging itself out or if it can or even if most of the people now registered as Republican would even want to go back to the GOP of old. Factions like the Lincoln Project are definitely on the outside looking in. I think we’re witnessing the death of a political party but it’s going to be a long, slow process.