The pitiful state of politics in the US....

[Catonahottinroof]

A couple of vids that are very interesting about modern politics here in the US. A viable 3rd party needs to happen....and soon.

This one is very long, but worth a listen simply because Glenn Greenwald doesn’t fear repercussions of telling the truth..
https://youtu.be/K_xmYwr6qt8

This one is much shorter, but again on point with what goes on in both parties....
https://youtu.be/E6urQjuO9eI

[CitizenBBN]

The problem with that third party is that it can sway an election in a direction you don't want, unless one comes on the scene en masse.

It gave Clinton the win over Bush I, and this year it's possible the Libertarian votes gave Biden the Presidency over Trump, though I haven't seen the final math on that one. I know in some states the Libertarian vote going to Trump was enough to swing the state.

So here we sit.

[ukpumacat]

The problem with that third party is that it can sway an election in a direction you don't want, unless one comes on the scene en masse.

It gave Clinton the win over Bush I, and this year it's possible the Libertarian votes gave Biden the Presidency over Trump, though I haven't seen the final math on that one. I know in some states the Libertarian vote going to Trump was enough to swing the state.

So here we sit.

There was far less 3rd party vote this year than in 2016.

[Catonahottinroof]

Lots of libertarian minded people are in one party or the other. With that said it’s time those folks stepped out and created the havoc that being ignored will bring any larger party that does so.

There was far less 3rd party vote this year than in 2016.

[ukpumacat]

Lots of libertarian minded people are in one party or the other. With that said it’s time those folks stepped out and created the havoc that being ignored will bring any larger party that does so.

I hear you. My personal opinion is closer to Chuck's on this. I think a 3rd party would fail right now and would instead only strengthen one side or the other.

I actually think a more important thing to do in order to allow more "3rd party type candidates" and independents would be to change the primary system.
Under the current system in most states, you will continue to get more and more extreme candidates. That will not change in some areas, but it will change in many under a new system.
Our government is big enough to have everyone's voices heard. But more independent or moderate candidates are often left out because of the primary system (and campaign financing).

[Catonahottinroof]

It’s gonna have to fail a few times I don’t see how it succeeds without bumps in the road.
To me, the past election neither party earned my vote. It was an election that hated Trump, or hated socialism. Straw man arguments on both extremes where the truth is closer to the middle. Given those options, neither party earned my vote, it ended up being a vote of hate for one candidate or fear of the other one.

[ukpumacat]

It’s gonna have to fail a few times I don’t see how it succeeds without bumps in the road.
To me, the past election neither party earned my vote. It was an election that hated Trump, or hated socialism. Straw man arguments on both extremes where the truth is closer to the middle. Given those options, neither party earned my vote, it ended up being a vote of hate for one candidate or fear of the other one.

I understand that context but I do not think that is what it was.

First, Dems didn't vote for Mitt Romney and they weren't voting for Trump. So, whether they loved, hated or didn't care about Trump didn't change their vote. I DO think many Dems hate Trump. I just don't think it mattered in how they voted. A vote is a vote either way. Enthusiastic votes don't count more than un-enthusiastic ones.
I think it is true that Trump is polarizing. So, he definitely played a role in the large turnout.
As for independents, I don't think most of them voted Biden because they "hate Trump". To me, that is too simplistic. I think there were many independents that grew tired and exhausted of his antics and behavior as President. And I think many believe he failed in his handling of Covid.

The long and short of it is that Trump had 4 years of a record this time around (policies/lack of policies/crisis handling, etc). Some voted for him because they liked that record. Some voted for Biden because they didn't. But I don't at all think anyone's "hate or not" determined their vote.

I think framing it this way fails to credit his record (for better or worse). It might be hard for some of his voters to acknowledge, but 51% of the country chose a different direction for a lot more than just his personality.

[dan_bgblue]

Joe Rogan Experience #1391- Tulsi Gabbard & Jocko Willink

2!/2 hrs, but I did learn a lot about Gabbard that I knew nothing about prior to watching the podcast.