Hot water heater

[KentuckyWildcat]

Any experts or wisdom here?

It is electric and right at 10 years old. It was not heating quite as well as it used to. We intentionally keep it so it is not extremely hot so the girls do not burn themselves. So last week, I went down and turned the heat up just a little. Like I barely moved the thermostat. We did not notice anything for a week, then suddenly yesterday it was EXTREMELY hot.

Causes? Solutions?

I'm praying it will last until this summer. By then I will have a propane tank and will go a tankless hot water heater.

[CitizenBBN]

I had one do the same thing. I'm almost sure it was the internal thermostat. I think my bill from the plumber was $30 or $50, but I have a great plumber.

I thought it was an element going bad, but it was the thermostat. Not sure which part he replaced but it was cheap.

And yes I'd go with a tankless if it's an option. I really like mine. Only issue is that they take a minimum flow to turn on so you can't run them at just a trickle.

[dan_bgblue]

The thermostat that you adjusted, is it behind a cover plate on the side of the unit? How large a unit is it? 30, 40 50 gallons? I suspect that it is an electric unit as you said you were putting in a gas tank next summer, am i correct?

[kingcat]

I've replaced and repaired a bunch of them in my day. Every time I have messed with a thermostat control for that reason, I end up replacing the lower element. After ten years you have a lot of calcium in that tank and depending on the type heater you have, often the lower element gets covered by sediment and eventually fries itself. Before it does you will begin to lose heat. When it's partially covered you lose the element.

Replacing an element is not such a big deal. Draining the water heater can be. if i did not decide on replacing the heater itself, I'd bump that thermostat back to detent, drain the tank, and replace the element.

After shutting the power off naturally.

Or google/troubleshoot your model and go from there.

Note: I understand some newer models do not use a lower element. All I have had did.

The last time I drained a heater tank I hooked a water hose to the drain outlet on the heater tank near the bottom, ran it outside, and then opened the pop off valve at the top of the tank. I also put a few towels around because I always get water everywhere. Find the wires going into the element, remove them, remove the element, as much of the sediment as you can, and replace by reversing the procedure. (dont put the sediment back in though )

But last time I also forgot to close the pop off valve back so...dont forget that part

[KentuckyWildcat]

The thermostat that you adjusted, is it behind a cover plate on the side of the unit? How large a unit is it? 30, 40 50 gallons? I suspect that it is an electric unit as you said you were putting in a gas tank next summer, am i correct?

Electric and 80 gallon tank. I have the two covers. Top and bottom behind a plate with insulation.

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[dan_bgblue]

kingcat has good info above and saves me the time of typing most of what I would have. I assume the heater has 2 thermostats and elements one at the bottom and one at the top. Which thermostat did you tinker with?

[BigBluePappy]

I've replaced and repaired a bunch of them in my day. Every time I have messed with a thermostat control for that reason, I end up replacing the lower element. After ten years you have a lot of calcium in that tank and depending on the type heater you have, often the lower element gets covered by sediment and eventually fries itself. Before it does you will begin to lose heat. When it's partially covered you lose the element.

Replacing an element is not such a big deal. Draining the water heater can be. if i did not decide on replacing the heater itself, I'd bump that thermostat back to detent, drain the tank, and replace the element.

After shutting the power off naturally.

Or google/troubleshoot your model and go from there.

Note: I understand some newer models do not use a lower element. All I have had did.

The last time I drained a heater tank I hooked a water hose to the drain outlet on the heater tank near the bottom, ran it outside, and then opened the pop off valve at the top of the tank. I also put a few towels around because I always get water everywhere. Find the wires going into the element, remove them, remove the element, and replace by reversing the procedure.

But last time I also forgot to close the pop off valve back so...dont forget that part

This^^^
When we were on well water down down in Nelsonville ( 30+ years ago), it would be (2) Elements and a thermostat at a cost of $50.00-$75.00 from Guy Mouser's in New Haven. Thermostat was only needed about every other time. Once we got hooked to city water it seemed to fix itself. Sediment can be a booger bear; and that was with whole house filters...

[KentuckyWildcat]

kingcat has good info above and saves me the time of typing most of what I would have. I assume the heater has 2 thermostats and elements one at the bottom and one at the top. Which thermostat did you tinker with?

It has 2. I adjusted both equally.

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[dan_bgblue]

Do you have a voltage tester and a electrical continuity tester? If you have a continuity tester, then you will need to use it to determine if one or both elements have shorted out. To find that out, you will need to throw the breaker for the water heater to cut off the current. Expose the thermostats. Then take the leads for the continuity tester and touch one lead to the white wire side of the thermostat and the other lead needs to be put in contact with the side of the inner tank. If you get a reading on your meter, then that heating element is shorted out. If you do not get a reading then replace that cover and move on to the 2nd heating element and proceed as above.

Let us know what you find.

[KentuckyWildcat]

Do you have a voltage tester and a electrical continuity tester? If you have a continuity tester, then you will need to use it to determine if one or both elements have shorted out. To find that out, you will need to throw the breaker for the water heater to cut off the current. Expose the thermostats. Then take the leads for the continuity tester and touch one lead to the white wire side of the thermostat and the other lead needs to be put in contact with the side of the inner tank. If you get a reading on your meter, then that heating element is shorted out. If you do not get a reading then replace that cover and move on to the 2nd heating element and proceed as above.

Let us know what you find.

I have some at work.

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[KentuckyWildcat]

I've replaced and repaired a bunch of them in my day. Every time I have messed with a thermostat control for that reason, I end up replacing the lower element. After ten years you have a lot of calcium in that tank and depending on the type heater you have, often the lower element gets covered by sediment and eventually fries itself. Before it does you will begin to lose heat. When it's partially covered you lose the element.

Replacing an element is not such a big deal. Draining the water heater can be. if i did not decide on replacing the heater itself, I'd bump that thermostat back to detent, drain the tank, and replace the element.

After shutting the power off naturally.

Or google/troubleshoot your model and go from there.

Note: I understand some newer models do not use a lower element. All I have had did.

The last time I drained a heater tank I hooked a water hose to the drain outlet on the heater tank near the bottom, ran it outside, and then opened the pop off valve at the top of the tank. I also put a few towels around because I always get water everywhere. Find the wires going into the element, remove them, remove the element, as much of the sediment as you can, and replace by reversing the procedure. (dont put the sediment back in though )

But last time I also forgot to close the pop off valve back so...dont forget that part

Thanks King

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[dan_bgblue]

I have some at work.

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If you do not want to cal Joe the plumber tonight, if I were you I would bring the voltage and continuity testers home tomorrow and we can analyze further. Oh yeah, I would start by checking the lower element.

[KentuckyWildcat]

If you do not want to cal Joe the plumber tonight, if I were you I would bring the voltage and continuity testers home tomorrow and we can analyze further. Oh yeah, I would start by checking the lower element.

I will try to remember. But my memory is shorter than my little toe lol

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[kingcat]

I will try to remember. But my memory is shorter than my little toe lol

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Others may have found it different, but it's always been the bottom element for me, and usually due to the sediment. I've even found the lower one, brittle and broken into pieces before from laying in the junk.

But a pro would always test both like Dan says. I'd likely replace both anyway since the top should be easy enough, and hopefully you have basically a new water heater. And a valuable experience.

EDIT: After re reading your original post, your heater is working but the temp is abnormally hot? I misread and thought it had already burned out. Still..
Warming water sometimes causes the minerals to clump together, and they then settle to the bottom of the tank or coat the water heater elements. When the elements get coated, or when the lower element is buried under mineral sediment, it has to work harder to heat the water.

Then sometimes, the element overheats and the water absorbs this heat. The element typically fails and burns out not long after overheating.

So it should be the lower one

[BigBluePappy]

Just saying, if you take the trouble to drain the water heater, why not replace both while you are in there.
And you guys are correct, the bottom one is usually toast...

[kingcat]

Just saying, if you take the trouble to drain the water heater, why not replace both while you are in there.
And you guys are correct, the bottom one is usually toast...

Yep. They're not that expensive and they have to work their patoots off. And just a note, I've heard of them not being the same element before I believe. Top and bottom that is.

[BigBluePappy]

Yep. They're not that expensive and they have to work their patoots off. And just a note, I've heard of them not being the same element before I believe. Top and bottom that is.

For some models of water heater, you are correct sir. Different element top and bottom...

[KentuckyWildcat]

EDIT: After re reading your original post, your heater is working but the temp is abnormally hot? I misread and thought it had already burned out

Right. It had went from hot to warm. I slightly increased the temp and it did not change. Then about a week lately it was suddenly very hot.



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[dan_bgblue]

During the really hot water phase did the safety pop of valve "pop off"? It really sounds like just a thermostat. Depending on model you may be able to replace the thermostat and leave the heating element in place. I would like to know if the elements are sound before proceeding.

[KentuckyWildcat]

During the really hot water phase did the safety pop of valve "pop off"? It really sounds like just a thermostat. Depending on model you may be able to replace the thermostat and leave the heating element in place. I would like to know if the elements are sound before proceeding.

I do not know about the pop off valve

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[KentuckyWildcat]

There is a reset button as well. At least on the top element.

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[Darrell KSR]

https://youtu.be/oa1ez7yL_T4

[CitizenBBN]

Mine had the same behavior. had to keep turning up thermostat, and sometimes it was still colder, then it got to where once in a blue moon it would be hot enough to make coffee.

I can ask my plumber, I think I had him replace the bottom element, but I think it was the thermostat. I need him to come by house on another matter, if I catch him quick I'll ask him.

[KentuckyWildcat]

Mine had the same behavior. had to keep turning up thermostat, and sometimes it was still colder, then it got to where once in a blue moon it would be hot enough to make coffee.

I can ask my plumber, I think I had him replace the bottom element, but I think it was the thermostat. I need him to come by house on another matter, if I catch him quick I'll ask him.

Thank you

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[kingcat]

The water does get extremely hot when the lower element goes out if due to sediment build up. As a matter of fact that's still the likely cause.

" minerals to clump together, and they then settle to the bottom of the tank or coat the water heater elements. When the elements get coated, or when the lower element is buried under mineral sediment, it has to work harder to heat the water.

Then sometimes, the element overheats and the water absorbs this heat. The element typically fails and burns out not long after overheating"

The exact same thing happened to mine. A week or so after the overheating the lower element went out. And when I replaced the element it came out in pieces from staying hot so long. The thermostat didnt know about the sediment and just knew the water temp was low. So it decides to allow current to run more overheating the element buried in the sediment. It seemed strange to me too, but I found it out the hard way a few years ago. I assume the thermostat does not react as fast as the element over heats the water..but whatever, it does do that.

So since its ten years old, I'd say the culprit is likely the sediment and not the element itself (yet)..or the thermostat (could be) at this point.
..or third the pressure relief valve is shot. I do recall having to replace one once in the nineties, for whatever reason.

In that order imo.

[blueboss]

https://youtu.be/oa1ez7yL_T4

This^^^


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[KeithKSR]

Thermostat is the likely culprit. If it was a bad element it wouldn’t be getting hotter. A bad element doesn’t heat at all. With an ohmmeter and the power off there will be continuity between the two lugs on the element. If there is no continuity an element has an open circuit and is bad.

When I replaced my water heater a few years ago I installed 3/4” flex shark bite connectors. It makes the job much easier now, and in the future.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/SharkBite-1...tor/1000180847

[blueboss]

OT just a bit, but in the “call the man” department, I had a leaky outside spigot. I figured no big deal there is a shut off valve in front of it I’ll change it next spring.

So I turn the shut off valve off and the spigot is still dripping, so that means the shut off valve is leaking too. With winter coming on I didn’t want to take a chance with freezing the pipe up. Since I don’t have a lot of confidence in my soldering ability in an application that could cause a lot of problems if it were to fail I decided to “call the man”.

Luckily I’ve got a plumber that is the “I’ve got a guy” guy. He came over this (6:00pm) evening and put in a new frost proof spigot, shut off ball valve including the run of copper pipe needed, and put new washers in a dripping utility sink in my basement.

He finishes in less than an hour, I ask how much do you need for all the parts and labor... $100. I asked are you sure for parts and labor and the run, he goes oh yeah I forgot the ball valve, make it $120.

Frost proof spigot - $50
Brass ball valve - $20
Copper pipe - $15
Misc-MEP gas, solder, flux etc ???

If I’d done it myself it would have taken half a day, 4-5 trips to Ace hardware, $100 dollars worth of parts and some stuff I probably wouldn’t have needed. I’d been bleeding, burnt, bump on my head and torn shirt.

That’s why I “call the man”...


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[KentuckyWildcat]

Thermostat is the likely culprit. If it was a bad element it wouldn’t be getting hotter. A bad element doesn’t heat at all. With an ohmmeter and the power off there will be continuity between the two lugs on the element. If there is no continuity an element has an open circuit and is bad.

When I replaced my water heater a few years ago I installed 3/4” flex shark bite connectors. It makes the job much easier now, and in the future.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/SharkBite-1...tor/1000180847

Starting to think so. I've adjusted the temp the last two days. I've made very very very small adjustments. And it seems like I either have warm or HOT.

[KentuckyWildcat]

And of course, I forgot my voltage meter....