This seems like it should get more attention. Fwiw, Graham denies doing this (obviously). But its a bad look for him since this Secretary of State is a lifelong Republican.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...about-n1247968
This seems like it should get more attention. Fwiw, Graham denies doing this (obviously). But its a bad look for him since this Secretary of State is a lifelong Republican.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...about-n1247968
~Puma~
It is absolutely illegal. There is absolutely NO reason why a senator from South Carolina should be having a discussion about Georgia elections. He must be held accountable.
What people are missing from this story is that Graham is not alone.
Another Republican was on the call as well. Gabe Sterling. Confirms Graham asked about tossing ballots.
Have not read the article and won't. I'm lazy and not worth the time right now. But I want all election fraud to be looked at so we can improve on it.
The SOS heard the question and then "inferred" a meaning from the question. He did not bother to ask he Senator what he meant by the question, he just went with his best guess and reported that to the AP as if it might have been factual.
That is what the public, you included, will "infer" from the news report without one ounce of fact to base it on.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
Asking a question is NOT a crime, and how somebody interprets that is not relevant.ATLANTA — Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said Monday that Sen. Lindsey Graham asked him whether he had the power to reject certain absentee ballots, a question he interpreted as a suggestion to toss out legally cast votes.
Reading it how you want it to read won't change that.
But we can always count on ABC news for accuracy.
In fact it looks like Graham is asking LOTS of questions....likely questions democrats don't want answered because it might expose fraud. Fraud won't be exposed without asking questions
So when in doubt, assume the question asker is doing something untorrid because that is always beneficial.Graham asked him whether political bias might have caused elections workers to accept ballots with nonmatching signatures and whether Raffensperger could throw out all absentee ballots in counties with higher rates of nonmatching signatures, the secretary of state told the newspaper.
Last edited by Doc; 11-17-2020 at 02:46 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
The logic here is akin to me asking my wife if she knew a guy. If she said yes then I assume she slept with him.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
To be clear...this isn't just being reported on ABC. Its all over the place. And I watched the interview with the Secretary of State. Graham is saying he just asked the question. The SOS is NOT saying that. He is saying much more.
I didn't expect anyone on here to believe the report since fraud only happens on the Dem side...but its a huge story that should be posted.
Just reverse this...if the Democratic Secretary of State of North Carolina came out and said that Democrats were pressuring him to "lose some ballots" (and this is what the SOS said) it would be a 7 page thread on this board.
The SOS said Graham was pressuring him to "toss out legally cast ballots".
Graham denies this. But another Republican staffer was on the phone and confirms the SOS story.
That's the story.
P.S. This SOS is not receiving death threats toward he and his family.
~Puma~
Who said or implied it should not be posted? Of course it should. It should also be accurately represented. Asking a question and committing a crime are two different things...unless you are a conservative. Then ask something equates to intent, or even action. The democrats impeached Trump for asking and ignore Biden when he did withhold money in return for a favor from Ukraine. Me, I take anything reported by the left or the media with a large degree of doubt. Past actions have shown that to be prudent. Of course that is my opinion, one I am entitled to. I read the article and don't see any "crime" or attempted "voter fraud"...as the leftist created title claims. However, you could be asking a question (Lindsey Graham committing voter fraud ?) and forgot the question mark. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.Originally Posted by ukpumacat
Last edited by Doc; 11-17-2020 at 03:44 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
The real question to be asked is, if he did, what?
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
Based on the language used in the report that was linked here, how in the heck would you expect anyone to believe that Senator Graham asked the SOS to throw out a bunch of ballots?I didn't expect anyone on here to believe the report
If there is more that should be shared here to make a case, then please do. Please do not ask me to troll the MSM sites looking for news as I have had my fill of them. If there is a reputable print news site that has other quotes from the SOS, I am more than willing to read them
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
Reverse the genders and it seems to be a fair question...I just pretend I don't know anyone. I am better off. Not sure what this has to do with the OP but figured I'd share
Yes, I meant it as a question. I can't edit the title.
Again, I watched the interview live. I have it recorded. The SOS's exact words (from Graham) were not a question. They were a statement...."Look hard and see how many ballots you can throw out".
Graham denies this. He said he wasn't even talking about the Presidential election but instead was talking about the upcoming Senate run-off.
That is when the Republican staffer came out and said that was not true. He was on the call as well and heard what the SOS heard.
When Graham was pressed and asked why he was calling the SOS of Georgia in the first place he said he also talked to the SOS's in Arizona and Nevada. Both have now come out publicly and said that is a lie....that they have not talked to him.
~Puma~
I just did. I gave the exact quote from the SOS in the interview.
~Puma~
Its a crime for an elected official to pressure another elected official to throw out legal ballots.
Will anything come of it? Of course not. Its hearsay.
Last edited by ukpumacat; 11-17-2020 at 04:22 PM.
~Puma~
There is no room for argument or hostility. A republican official is making the claim.
The phone call was made and the question asked. So if true and not some elaborate hoax..and it is possible attempted criminal election tampering or whatever...what is our response?
The charge is by a republican official regarding an attempt at having legal votes tossed by a republican senator who donated 500,000 dollars to help investigate voter fraud to overturn an American election.
That would seem to sound anyone's alarm bell that was actually turned on.
Last edited by kingcat; 11-17-2020 at 04:34 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
In the article, the SOS stated he "was asked"
Clearly the GOP does not believe Raffensparger is competent. So much so that some have called for his resignation. So now we are to believe that a GOP senator would miraculously ask him to commit voter fraud? That does not make sense at face value Of course I can understand why some would see Raffensparger that way, considering how the GA election is such a clusterbomb. If I did my job as poorly as GA runs an election, along with some other states, I would be asked to resign or be fired. Ah, the joys of government work.
Last edited by Doc; 11-17-2020 at 04:33 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
That’s an absolutely fair question....
No its not possible since I have been told many times that voter fraud never happens. The left says that all the time.
What, does Lindsey think Raffessperger is going to "throw out 14,000 votes" and it not get noticed? To me its pretty clear Graham is doing the leg work and the research to see how GA elections are run, because all states are different. Some are easy and logical, with little cheating. Others are complex, slow and ripe for fraud.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
It seems much simpler than that to me. It's pretty clear what Graham was doing, but is it criminal? And if so, how do we feel about it.
Those are the only questions I see as relevant.
ESIT: I'd only add that I expect President Trump is livid with him.
Last edited by kingcat; 11-17-2020 at 04:51 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
It's not a crime to ask to throw out illegal ballots is it?
He didn't say "throw out legal ballots", even if he said it in every way interpreted negatively towards Graham. "See how many ballots you can throw out" doesn't imply legal or illegal ballots.
And you are way too informed to not know that both sides are actively using every trick in the book to throw out ballots they don't want counted, and have for a long time.
If anyone doesn't think this is routine they are fooling themselves. Lots ballots, ballot harvesting, the wonderful gray area of "curing" a ballot, all of it is rife with exactly these kinds of pressures.
Interesting you only posted the story when it happens on the GOP side, just as it is interesting others only post the Democratic ones.
The answer is of course to run an election a lot like the poor backward state of KEntucky, where you have to have a valid ID, and have to be on the voter rolls and be a real resident before you can vote. that eliminates a HUGE amount of the potential fraud and subjective leanings of those involved in the election.
Then go to an auditable computerized station to vote, and you'll, eliminate much of the issue. Open source software on each machine that can be inspected by either party.
But nothing is going to come of it just like how no one at the FBI will be prosecuted for the Russia hoax, or how all those honest, law-abiding Californians who are going to "move" to Georgia and try to vote will ever be in jail.
Everyone is so busy covering their side's ass that no one will just stand up and point out the whole system is corrupt. That was a lot of the appeal of Trump btw, pox on both your houses.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
You have wanted to prosecute people who question our election system, and here you are rightly pointing out that we may have problems in our election system. Do you take yourself to jail now?
That's the problem with the position. There have been numerous outrages already reported this election cycle, like how a Georgia county just forgets about 2,600 votes. Heretofore your position has been that pointing out that the system is corrupt and flawed and inaccurate is somehow undermining America and democracy, but clearly you now acknowledge that we have a case of the kind of problems you want us to not complain about otherwise.
The way to preserve this nation isn't to arrest people for saying things you don't like to have said. The way to preserve this nation is to protect the rights of every American, from the sane to the seemingly insane, to say what they want at the top of their lungs. Without censorship of government or massive corporations that are in bed with the government that gives them special legal protections and perks, so that all can hear.
It's also incumbent on us to listen and see what is going on. Does anyone really have any doubt that at this point every level of election official in Georgia is being pressured by both sides? ANy more than in 2000 when Bush lawyers were down in Florida trying to toss every ballot from Miami for any infraction while Gore lawyers were trying to toss every military ballot they could?
This is why liberalism and socialism fail. B/c people put humans in charge of institutions that have great power and wealth at stake and then are shocked those humans are deeply flawed and corruptible.
Honestly I don't care that Graham is pushing for his side, b/c I'm sure Democrats are pushing for theirs. If anyone thinks that will stop, when politics and the dirty game it is has been that way since before we had a written language, you're just following the definition of insanity.
The outrage should be that we have a system so poorly administered in this day and age, with blockchain audit trails, nearly unbreakable encryption and every other kind of technology, that any one man in any one state can actually have any impact on the vote counting. Of course the truth is that at every level any person in this process can have an influence, and at certain key points they can have great influence.
The system is broken. That should be our outrage, b/c I assure Graham isn't the first politician to try to pressure a political process for a favorable outcome, including an election. He isn't even the only one in the time it took me to type this post.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
I am curious with the apparently foregone conclusion in this thread that, even interpreting things as negatively as possible, if any of this is illegal at all.
First, did Graham ask for "legal" ballots to be removed? I don't think so, he just asked to see what ballots could be thrown out. Well, ballots get thrown out all the time for legal reasons, so isn't that just like asking the SoS to do his job and review all the votes and throw out the bad ones?
Now no one is that naive, he wants just certain ones thrown out, but it's not clear from what has been said that it's even close to asking for the SoS to even break the law.
And even if he did ask him to, is that illegal? You mean I can't go to the SoS site and email him and ask him to just burn 10,000 votes for the other guy without fear of being prosecuted? Is that really election tampering?
We can ask if it's "wrong", but to be blunt as hell, after 4 years of the totally false Russia hoax and total ignoring of Hillary's obvious criminal behavior along with that of a bunch of other people, I'm pretty jaded on anyone lecturing on "wrong".
We've had moral wrong up to our eyeballs for a long time in this country and no one seems to notice until it's the other side that does it, and no one was more dismissive of moral wrongness than Hillary. Though I will say it is pretty much gone completely from our discussion on both sides, so I don't even know if that's a consideration.
And I can guarantee that it's never been a factor in American politics. It's been a factor in the reactions of voters, but never in the actions of politicians. They just hope to not get caught, be it in things as grotesque as the Clinton Foundation or foreign influence peddling or as common as having affairs with 1-2 women while running for office.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
I dont recall wanting to prosecute anyone, but I may have. I get ornery like that sometimes when I'm hurting.You have wanted to prosecute people who question our election system, and here you are rightly pointing out that we may have problems in our election system. Do you take yourself to jail now?
That's the problem with the position. There have been numerous outrages already reported this election cycle, like how a Georgia county just forgets about 2,600 votes. Heretofore your position has been that pointing out that the system is corrupt and flawed and inaccurate is somehow undermining America and democracy, but clearly you now acknowledge that we have a case of the kind of problems you want us to not complain about otherwise.
Recounts are performed for that very reason. Mistakes such as the one in Georgia are often made, and a close enough election corrects such common errors. That's according to the republican Georgia SOS which I heard. That is not fraud.
This is, almost laughably, much different. And you also also have chosen not to address the obvious question. If he did this, what?
The rest has been tossed round and round in numerous threads.
But as for the rest, which United States presidential election has been won or overturned due to fraud? Are you saying that many have been?
Last edited by kingcat; 11-17-2020 at 05:47 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
I shouldn't have used laughably so in that way. I only mean we all understand the difference in directly tampering in a recount, with recorded evidence, in an election by a powerful senator, and a recount correction.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
Again, I wasn't being facetious above....its all hearsay. Having a witness to it makes it a stronger allegation but nothing will come of it. Its simply a bad look for Graham or any other Republican to pressure officials to change results (which again, Graham denies doing but the SOS took it that way).
This is all a cluster btw.
If you work backwards, its all easier...
Biden will be President on January 20th.
Everything until then will be posturing, accusations, ugliness, pressuring, failed lawsuits, politics, firings for those who aren't loyal, etc.
Everyone knows the game. Republican Senators are slowly starting to say publicly Biden won but even they have to be careful. No one wants Trump's twitter wrath. Several congratulated Kamala today...but won't do so publicly.
Everyone knew if Trump lost what this would be like....Hell. He's an elitist bully who has settled in court his way out of everything. He's trying with this. He said he would do it. Biden (notoriously) literally already had a huge team in place to fight it because he knew it was coming if he won.
Trump's lawyers have said over and over again in court they are not "claiming fraud". They are just looking for any loophole possible to keep states from certifying results.
Heck, even the DHS called this the most secure election in American history. And then that official was fired tonight.
Again, all of this won't matter as far as who is President. But the fallout is likely to be massive moving forward.
~Puma~
Could it possibly affect the senate runoffs in Georgia?
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
Well, everyone knew it because it was expected....having been told by the left for the past 4 years the Russians infiltrated our 2016 elections set the stage for this. The left is reaping what it had sown for the last 4 yrs. it’s tit for tat and I’m afraid the next 4 years will be more of the same.
Should congress flip right in 2022, you’ll likely see an inquiry in what Biden knew and when he know it over Burisma and his son’s plum job for favors. There will be no healing, no forward progress.
It’s time for a 3rd party to emerge that is above this crap.....
I would say that’s the whole point Right.
Oh and of course Biden will be president CANT WAIT!
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