Trump and Fox News

[ukpumacat]

Watching the love affair between Trump and Fox News coming to an end is about the least surprising thing ever.

I have posted many times that it was common knowledge that Trump has wanted to start his own news network (god help us). The plan originally was for Roger Ailes to run it after Trump lost to Hillary. And then Trump won (called on election night by networks in a much closer race than this one) and everything changed.
This morning, he is on a twitter meltdown about them.

I am fascinated to see how this plays out. OANN and Newsmax are not only right wing crazy town but both are poorly done. So they would need a huge influx of cash to make them viable to the conservative base.
Fox isn't going anywhere. And even if one of the other networks (or new Trump Tv) can steal away one or two of the talents...I doubt Tucker leaves. He and the Murdochs are very close.
There has always been a divide at Fox with their news desk (conservative/moderate) and their opinion shows (staunchly conservative). And the Murdochs have allowed them to do their own thing because their ratings are high.

It will all just be fascinating to watch play out. Trump has an inordinate amount of power with the Republican base right now and he demands extreme loyalty. Fox isn't going to completely give him that as a news organization. And even though for now they are allowing their news desk and opinion shows to cover the lawsuits and allegations....they still of course call Biden the President-elect (as they should).

Anyways, divorces are always ugly and this stands to be an especially ugly one.

[ukpumacat]

Here is an article with some more info on this:

https://www.axios.com/trump-fox-news...source=twitter

[KentuckyWildcat]

True about Trump. But the Murdoch kids have wanted to go left for a while as well. I think he really wanted this in 2016. However, now I think he will have 4 years to use his TV station to promote himself for 2024.

[KSRBEvans]

There's always been a pretty big split between the News and Opinion sides of Fox News. IMHO Bret Baier and the other news folks have played it pretty much down the middle. The opinion side (Hannity, Ingraham, Lou Dobbs, etc.) has always been in the tank and continues to be that way for the most part.

[ukpumacat]

I agree. And for me personally, I’m not sure if this is a good thing or not.
On one hand, Fox sometimes corrects a lot of the misinformation that comes out whereas OANN and Newsmaxx certainly would not.
On the other hand, I still personally long to see a network that can truly be balanced.
This was one of the great negatives of Fox going hard right....it drove other networks further left (I fully admit there is a left tilt on most networks and strongly so on some).
If Trump does flee....maybe Fox will try to be that network. It might not be good for ratings but who knows....maybe more than me would love it.
I’ve always wanted to see more balanced opinion shows. Like Tucker Carlson followed by Chris Cuomo. I guess that wouldn’t work but you get my point. Why not present two sides?
Why not have opinion heads on both sides of the aisle? Why not bring back shows that had Dems and Reps actually debating (unlike we see across the board with shows that have one token pundit from the “other side”)?
I suppose those shows just don’t bring in the ratings.
Needless to say, Fox isn’t going to become liberal. That just won’t happen.

The biggest issue at Fox is that they have several very good news folks. And every one of them that is truly moderate and centrist get blasted by conservatives for being “too liberal”.
Brett Baier is good. Chris Wallace has long been one of the best in the business. Neil Cavuto has always been decent. Shep Smith was great and got ran off for having the courage to take on Hannity. Even Megyn Kelly who is an open conservative was decently unbiased on tv.
Heck, you’ve gone too far when Karl Rove has become the voice of reason on Fox.
I’m just weird I think. I actually like listening to people who don’t think like I do. I dislike the strongly biased shows on other networks just the same. I just don’t enjoy the biased opinion shows. And I don’t trust any of them.

[VirginiaCat]

I wonder why no one worries about MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, and NBC having liberal news side vs their liberal Opinion side? Why shouldn't we conservatives want the news aligned with the opinion like those other news outlets.

BTW, started watching some Newsmax this week for the first time. I do not see them as Conservative, or Liberal. They seem to be doing their absolute best to take zero positions.

[Catonahottinroof]

I still think Trump’s plan B is to either join an existing network, or start one of his own.

[Darryl]

I would like to see Democrats agree to multiple interviews on Fox and Republicans go on CNN

Darryl

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Heck, you’ve gone too far when Karl Rove has become the voice of reason on Fox.
I’m just weird I think. I actually like listening to people who don’t think like I do. I dislike the strongly biased shows on other networks just the same. I just don’t enjoy the biased opinion shows. And I don’t trust any of them.

You said it there about Rove. I am like you, I do want to hear what others have to say. I watched a decent amount of Fox News and the opinion heads before and a few days after the election. The thing that strikes me the most is that there are some fair points, critiques and a different way to look at things that can/should evoke some conversation. The problem that I have is that most of those arguments are supported by lie after lie after lie, when they do not have to be.

[catmanjack]

There isn’t one news group or one politician that doesn’t lie or being polite skirt the truth.

[VirginiaCat]

I still think Trump’s plan B is to either join an existing network, or start one of his own.

I will bet OANN

[ukpumacat]

I wonder why no one worries about MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, and NBC having liberal news side vs their liberal Opinion side? Why shouldn't we conservatives want the news aligned with the opinion like those other news outlets.

BTW, started watching some Newsmax this week for the first time. I do not see them as Conservative, or Liberal. They seem to be doing their absolute best to take zero positions.

Just a couple of notes:

- Worry isn't the right word but I don't like (and admitted above) when networks or right or left leaning. That's just my personal preference. I would prefer one that was right down the middle and had a balanced offering.
- I will admit I have never watched Newsmax. But, I have read some of their articles and they are without a doubt a right leaning sight. Their owner is a confidant of Trump.

[ukpumacat]

I will bet OANN

OANN is just so so bad. And I don't just mean how Q-Anonish they are. I mean their production level is awful.

[ukpumacat]

You said it there about Rove. I am like you, I do want to hear what others have to say. I watched a decent amount of Fox News and the opinion heads before and a few days after the election. The thing that strikes me the most is that there are some fair points, critiques and a different way to look at things that can/should evoke some conversation. The problem that I have is that most of those arguments are supported by lie after lie after lie, when they do not have to be.

Fwiw, Geraldo even came out with a video today urging Trump to stop what he's doing.

[Padukacat]

I’m not sure any relationship lasts with trump. Even those for him are probably moreso against Biden. Nobody would actually say they think Trump is great because he’s such a mental nightmare. If you like him you like his policy and ignore any of the bad that comes with him, which I get.

[CitizenBBN]

I’m not sure any relationship lasts with trump. Even those for him are probably moreso against Biden. Nobody would actually say they think Trump is great because he’s such a mental nightmare. If you like him you like his policy and ignore any of the bad that comes with him, which I get.

Trump's greatest irony is that he is convinced his support is b/c of his persona. The truth is his support is utterly in spite of it.

he tapped into a lot of frustration among blue collar families that have been abandoned by the Democrats as they have shifted from pro-worker economics to more liberal coastal priorities like the Green New Deal, climate and globalism. Also people who are actually proud of America and it's history, and not ashamed of the nation.

Trump tapped into that, but people vote for him for those policies, and in spite of him acting like an obnoxious ass all the time.

But a key part of Trump is that he is fickle and demands absolute butt kissing of whatever he does, so no one will last long with him. I doubt he could make his own network work very well as it will quickly become a caricature. Why would a guy like Tucker Carlson leave Fox to go work for a guy who would fire you in a nanosecond if he didn't like something you said.

I've said for 4 years that working for Trump must be a nightmare. Since there aren't too many jobs as Sec. of Defense or State he still gets people willing to put up with him for that cherry position, but if you're a conservative commentator you have another, far more stable, option.

He'll find a way to stay around, and I imagine after 4 years of Biden he'll have a great shot at winning the Presidency again if the Bernie/Warren/AOC contingent really get a voice in this administration. I'd far prefer a better option, but that's true of most elections.

Rarely does anyone really vote "for" a candidate, and that's been true in general for a very long time. Reagan was the last POTUS I thought truly had a vision of America that I believed in, and Bush I was certainly a respectable decent man. Other than that it's been slim pickings.

[kingcat]

On the Qanon thing..

QAnon is something any Christian or American had better avoid. A good friend of mine has been a follower for a couple of years. And he claims his Christian walk is now more clear since learning God and Satan are aliens from differing planets who in a constant state of war. He is a recluse now waiting for the new age and/or any instructions.
If anyone you know is involved, seek help for them. It is a cult by the strongest meaning of the word and will suck them in. Communities have members who secretly support one another and indoctrinate any newbies.

His (QAnons original early propaganda) initial beliefs were that most prominent democrats are lizard people and the queen of England, the Clintons, Obamas, the Bush family, and other centrist republicans, are blood sucking baby killers leading the entertainment industry in the consumption of the drug adrenochrome. And who operate a base on Mars for the production of adrenochrome from babies and young children for the enjoyment of those on earth addicted to its euphoria and age defying attributes.

Q, (now portrayed as a more palatable entity) was originally an alien from the future sent to aid Trump in exposing all the aliens and their minions, and arresting them. With the base at Guantanamo already expanded and ready to house England's royalty, Obama, the Clintons, and all democratic officials. All have been indicted already (as of over a year ago)

These were/are the founding principles and beliefs of the organization, which is now trying to legitimize their beliefs to fool those culpable and eager to believe the president more than a man. And no, it is not his fault these nut cases are buying in.

Anti-American and satanic at its core. And a cult which can deceive anyone if you are caught up in it. The "Pizzagate" extremist was Qanon inspired as was the murderous attack on the synagogue in New York.
A group once willing to state that Hitler was a good guy and the holocaust was a farce. Once claiming Jews themselves murdered their fellow Jews in internment camps against the furors better judgement, and those same people came here and are the powerbrokers behind the deep state. Led by Soros and others.

Now Q followers are receiving support from the republican party and have seats in congress. There should be a national intervention of the organization, but its growth particularly (not limited to) across the south instead has secured it as a powerful far right voting block.

"QAnon is heading to Congress, as Marjorie Taylor Greene, a supporter of the baseless and complicated pro-Trump conspiracy theory, won a House seat in Georgia, and Lauren Boebert claimed a House seat in Colorado.

While those victories are the first by Republican candidates who publicly backed the wide-ranging delusion centered on allegations of a “deep state” undermining President Donald Trump and liberals trafficking children, they will join a GOP conference that may already host some “Q-curious” members.

Greene and Boebert were among at least a dozen Republican congressional candidates who had endorsed or given credence to QAnon’s unfounded belief that Trump is the last line of defense against a cabal of child-molesting Democrats who seek to dominate world power.

Rhetoric of QAnon adherents is steeped in racist and anti-semitic tropes and has led to violence. An early supporter opened fire at D.C. pizza joint Comet Ping Pong;
In April, authorities arrested a woman who traveled from Illinois to New York and threatened to kill former Vice President Joe Biden."

[Doc]

Fwiw, Geraldo even came out with a video today urging Trump to stop what he's doing.

So what. He also opened Al Capones vault and found nothing, which illusttate how wise he is. His opiniom means as much to me as Racheal Maddows.

[Doc]

I’m not sure any relationship lasts with trump. Even those for him are probably moreso against Biden. Nobody would actually say they think Trump is great because he’s such a mental nightmare. If you like him you like his policy and ignore any of the bad that comes with him, which I get.

I think his policies are great. I can ignore the other stuff because it is meaningless

[Doc]

I find the whole QAnon thing quite interesting. The cannibalistic, satan worshipping, pedophile description cracks me up. Sounds like something out of the movie "The Ninth Gate".

I enjoy the outrage over the wanting to change history aspect of it. Sort of reminds me of the BLM pushing the 1619 crap.

I also enjoy how little respect people have for the minds of the citizens. Apparently most are mindless zombie rubes who lack the ability to evaluate information. Although there is quite a bit of evidence that there are mindless rubes out there who will believe anything they read. Politicians make use of this daily. Heck, people still believe Trump told them to inject bleach.

It is a fringe group, like the birthers or those who believe GHW Bush blew up the twin towers. BFD! I see it on the same level as Chenk Uyger and The Young Turks.

[CitizenBBN]

So, what are the wacky parts of QAnon we should avoid?

I will note that believing in lizard people and bases on Mars is about the same as believing that socialism creates prosperity. And I'm serious about that one. Except you can't prove we don't have a secret base on Mars, where as socialism is easily disproven over and over. So not sure who is wackier on that one.

I will note however that believing in the 'deep state' does not require any level of QAnon or other conspiracy beliefs. Corruption of the bureaucracy is very real, and is not a conspiracy, it's a consensus.

What I can't believe is that people can see it so clearly with this Russia nonsense, and still refuse to acknowledge the simple maxim that power corrupts.

[bigsky]

I Remember when “ health food” was just a whacky hippie conspiracy theory.

[kingcat]

To those who scoff at me mentioning where 4Chan/Qanon came from in 2016 or so I'd point out that where the movement came from is not where it stands today. You were right to scoff.
I believe you are wrong to deflect however imho.

Anyone who doubts can research the phenomenon yourself and not have to take anyone's word for it. This is definitely not some small fringe group.

In fact the danger is not in what Qanon followers believe because one great lie can just proceed to the next. That is how they have transformed into something a little less unbelievable over the past four years without losing those, who know the deeper truth
The danger is their ability to deceive. And the subconscious/conscious will of people to rather be lied to than to admit they were ever deceived in the first place. A cultish "rabbit hole" that is hard to return from.
And you can be virtually certain, there are at least some Qanon curious folks here on our forums who adhere to some of the conspiracy theories.
For obvious reasons they are very likely to avoid acknowledgment in a forum such as this. They are on the FBI's watch list.

Here's more on how to deal with the group for those who are interested. For those of you who aren't, that's your prerogative.

Below is discussion from Psychology Today, with this article on how we should talk to family who do believe in Q. Which may prove helpful as the holidays are upon us.

Media attention around QAnon is buzzing as we head into election season. Here's an interview I conducted for Julia Sachs's article about QAnon for GritDaily:

Have you noticed specific traits in people that become QAnon believers?

First of all, about half the population believes in at least one conspiracy theory, so conspiracy theory beliefs are "normal." That said, psychology research has shown greater degrees of certain cognitive quirks among those who believe in conspiracy theories—like need for uniqueness; needs for certainty, closure, and control; and lack of analytical thinking. But the best predictor of conspiracy theory belief may be mistrust, and more specifically, mistrust of authoritative sources of information. Which means that those most likely to become QAnon believers mistrust mainstream sources of information, spend a lot of time on the internet and social media looking for alternative answers.

QAnon also includes other facets that are appealing to some that can serve as "hooks" that lure people into the world of QAnon. There's obviously a central pro-Trump/anti-liberal component, but there's also considerable overlap with evangelical Christianity and its looming apocalyptic battle between good and evil. And now there's overlap with people who are concerned about child sex trafficking, with QAnon highjacking #SaveTheChildren. Curiously, however, those who are "hooked" from this angle are able to turn a blind eye to President Trump's own friendship with Jeffrey Epstein or the several charges made against him about sexual assault of minors, which amounts to a classic case of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias.

In what ways does this conspiracy theory impact relationships?

In order to maintain fringe beliefs, it's often necessary to turn away from the mainstream, including any family and friends who disagree with you. In "falling down the rabbit hole," QAnon followers have often found a new world, and to some extent a new "family" of like-minded believers that make previous relationships less rewarding and more fraught. Similar to differences in political beliefs, arguments about QAnon can definitely break up marriages or cause significant strain on other relationships.

Immersing oneself in the internet world of QAnon can also resemble a behavioral addiction to pursuits like video games or gambling. QAnon is a complex world of interrelated conspiracy theories; it takes significant effort to follow. And so, devotees often end up spending more and more time on it, at the expense of in-person relationships, work, or more traditional recreational activities.

How should someone approach speaking to a loved one about their belief of QAnon?

Before you try, think about what your goals are: Are you just trying to make small talk over Thanksgiving dinner? Are you really trying to understand what they believe and why? Or are you trying to change their minds?

Depending on the circumstances, it might be best not to bring up QAnon at all. If you are going to ask about it, try to start by listening in an effort to understand. See if there's any common ground. Understand that belief in QAnon requires a rejection of mainstream sources of information, so that bringing those up isn't going to change anyone's mind. If you are hoping to challenge their beliefs, read up on QAnon: Arguing from a place of ignorance isn't likely to get you very far. Neither is ridicule, if your loved one is a "true believer."

Is that different from clashing political or religious beliefs? How scared should someone be of an aunt who believes in QAnon come Thanksgiving?

I wouldn't use the word "scared." If you're not looking for a fight, don't argue and don't engage. If they bring it up, try saying something like, "I know this is really important to you, but I'd prefer to not talk about this... can we talk about something else tonight?"

[kingcat]

Here is an article on how Qanon is expanding into to the UK..

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/qanon-uk

"It is hard to attach a solid number to the British QAnon fandom – first of all because Facebook started cracking down on Q content in August, causing some groups to disappear, or to reinvent themselves as private invitation-only groups, or to decamp to other channels like Telegram or Bitchute. But it is also because – maybe exactly to dodge moderation – QAnon itself has shape-shifted, spreading under the guise of watchwords, mottos and themes rather than by mentioning Q itself. Now, for instance, QAnon has morphed into an anti-child-trafficking online campaign, alternatively called “Save our children” or “Save the children”; the elite cabal drinking kids’ blood is not written on the tin, and an unsuspecting parent wishing to save their children from something might legitimately join a relevant social media group, before being hurled down a rabbit-hole"

[KentuckyWildcat]

So what. He also opened Al Capones vault and found nothing, which illusttate how wise he is. His opiniom means as much to me as Racheal Maddows.

Right! He has never been a far right person. He is just on Fox so people assume he is. He is kind of center and may be left of center.

[Doc]

I like when he and Dan Bongino get into it
Bongino is a neighbor, although I do not know him. I like his no BS approach. He will, and has, told Jeraldo off more than once