Little 10 in stunning reversal!

[KeithKSR]

But yes, in large part we agree on masks, and on seat belts, etc. If i can just get you to see the beauty of the Invisible Hand I might get you over to the light of Libertarianism yet.

Stu could never be a Libertarian.

[CitizenBBN]

Let's take a moment to pause a celebrate a moment of agreement and get back at it.

I feel the Capitalism flowing through you. Embrace incentive based economics and we can destroy the Emperor and rule the economy together!

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Stu could never be a Libertarian.

You're right. That's because I think Libertarianism in today's terms is a farce. I have yet to meet a self-identified Libertarian that does not use it for convenience and more so as a reluctance to completely identify with one of the two parties. Maybe that's not a bad thing, though.

[CitizenBBN]

You're right. That's because I think Libertarianism in today's terms is a farce. I have yet to meet a self-identified Libertarian that does not use it for convenience and more so as a reluctance to completely identify with one of the two parties. Maybe that's not a bad thing, though.

You've now met one.

it's far from a farce, its the reason this nation was founded. I'm just out there trying to stay the course.

No one has to be an absolutist, the only "pure Libertarian" is basically an anarcho-capitalist, and that's obviously not workable, but believing in the basic principles is sound.

If one does one really lacks much of a home in the two parties. In the most base terms it would equate to "out of my bedroom and out of my wallet" which is today more generally "conservative" but they can often have a hard time with the first part, though far less than say the 1980s.

it is a far less judgmental and more truly diverse approach than modern leftism, which has become a near religious devotion to fascism couched as tolerance.

And the GOP has largely sold out their conservative fiscal policies as well, becoming circa 1980s or 90s Democrats in their approach.

I end up in the GOP camp more often only b/c they are more for limited government than the Democrats, and in the end if we don't limit government in any area we can we will surely lose our liberty, but I'd definitely support a completely new party that believed more in my principles herein defined. Neither is a good fit, but the GOP is somewhat better overall.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

I feel the Capitalism flowing through you. Embrace incentive based economics and we can destroy the Emperor and rule the economy together!

I have no problems at all in incentive based economics as long as everyone is playing on an equal playing field. I know that's a fantasy, but I do think it is a role of government in a capitalistic society to do what it can to create such an environment where the ones reaping the greater incentive rewards are the people that carry the burden of risks. I think there is a fundamental difference in philosophy of who carries the risk burden.

[dan_bgblue]

But yes, in large part we agree on masks , and on seat belts, etc. If i can just get you to see the beauty of the Invisible Hand I might get you over to the light of Libertarianism yet.

I think the outcome of the humongous outdoor crowd in Bristol this weekend will tell us a lot about how events like that one can affect the world as we know it.

[Basket Case]

3 counterpoints here:

1) I punch back. If I am insulted, I certainly deserve that right. I would appreciate it if the warning was given to both sides, especially the instigator.

2) I totally will listen to those that have opposing views. I am no more dismissive, categorical, labeling as many others. I just happen to have a different POV than many others here. I participate in the discussion because I WANT to hear from people with opposing views. I do not have the confidence that others feel the same way.

3) Respect goes two ways. The incessant whining, the lack of compassion, the lack of respect when people storm businesses and accost store employees, the "Karen's" and so on. Those folks have no respect for anything but themselves. If someone doesn't want to wear a mask, then don't wear one in the privacy of your homes, friend's houses and businesses that do not require to do so. Protest all you want. If you want respect, offer it to others.

The only name caller I see here is you. I am one of those "personal freedom idiots", as you say. You also mention "reckless idiocy" and "there is so much that is just plain stupid" in other posts. Just because some of us view the constitution and Bill of Rights as sacrosanct and allow for very little infringement does not mean anyone lacks compassion. I will willingly were a mask when indoors and in close proximity to others. I will also wear a mask if a private business (Kroger, Lowe's, etc) requires that I do so in their business. I personally do not think the government should mandate masks on private property. I have much more trouble with limiting the right to assemble and shutting down businesses. Most importantly, I do not think that our rights are suspended - EVER. You may be willing to trade your rights for safety, but I am not.

You are smug and condescending to those of us who hold these views to any degree at all. Judging from the tone of your posts, you are the only altruistic one on this site. Although you, self admittedly, have had little inconvenience due to the virus you fail to acknowledge the impact of onerous governmental rules on anyone else. I, too, have have very little personal setbacks due to the virus but I have a lot of empathy for the effect it is having on children and young adults (academic and social), business owners, people who have lost their jobs, etc due to the government rules.

[UKHistory]

I disagree completely, Stu. MLB, the NBA and the NFL have shown that sports can be operated without furthering spread of the virus. High school sports aren’t being operated for the all mighty dollar.

What sports and entertainment do is to reintroduce some normalcy into life.

The St. Louis Cardinals had some real issues. The NBA seems to have worked very well in the bubble. The NFL has just started so it is too early to tell.

Finding ways to continue our way of life is critical. Sports, movies, entertainment have all helped Americans get through great crisis.

It is true that we don't know much about the virus as it is so new. Masks and face shields can greatly reduce risk of exposure. If everyone can at least wear a mask or face guard, we can do a lot. If we can wear pants to cover our private parts, we can wear a mask and not feel our liberty is lost.

Sports is also important for the athletes. For all the debate on Title IX, for example, the law has shown sports is great to help girls with self-esteem, academics, reducing pregnancy, and going to college.

Athletics can be a unifying force in a community. It is great to have it back.

I won't ridicule the Big whatever about deciding to take the field. The conference's rationale for changing course might be more about saving face, or revenue and status. Regardless they are back and so is the PAC 12.

[StuBleedsBlue2]

The only name caller I see here is you. I am one of those "personal freedom idiots", as you say. You also mention "reckless idiocy" and "there is so much that is just plain stupid" in other posts. Just because some of us view the constitution and Bill of Rights as sacrosanct and allow for very little infringement does not mean anyone lacks compassion. I will willingly were a mask when indoors and in close proximity to others. I will also wear a mask if a private business (Kroger, Lowe's, etc) requires that I do so in their business. I personally do not think the government should mandate masks on private property. I have much more trouble with limiting the right to assemble and shutting down businesses. Most importantly, I do not think that our rights are suspended - EVER. You may be willing to trade your rights for safety, but I am not.

You are smug and condescending to those of us who hold these views to any degree at all. Judging from the tone of your posts, you are the only altruistic one on this site. Although you, self admittedly, have had little inconvenience due to the virus you fail to acknowledge the impact of onerous governmental rules on anyone else. I, too, have have very little personal setbacks due to the virus but I have a lot of empathy for the effect it is having on children and young adults (academic and social), business owners, people who have lost their jobs, etc due to the government rules.

You should read a little more closely. If you can't recognize that I am defending myself, that's on you.

By the evidence you lay out here, you are obviously not one of the "personal freedom idiots". You are wearing a mask and recognize that the social contract weights more heavily than any infringements on our personal freedoms. You actually seem to be quite the opposite as what I am calling out, although, you seem to have waffled in your own reply. You say that you are wearing masks at times (per recommendations), but you are not willing to "trade your rights" for safety. I don't see how those can operate simultaneously.

I also agree with you that government should not mandate masks on private property. I have made that point many times. Not to mention that nobody is really calling for such mandates.

I just have to laugh at the smugness and condescending comment. You don't think that others don't reek of that as well? Obviously not, because they are on your side. I can share with you the personal PM's that thank me, but those were done in confidence, so while my approach may borderline brash at times, it is not any worse that I have been the recipient of. The problem with message boards is that tone is subjective to the person that is reading. It is VERY easy to misconstrue. I know, I have done it many times over the years.

Finally, you seem to gloss over the MANY times in which I have expressed empathy and sympathy for those that have been impacted by all of the events of 2020. You say by government rules, I say by government neglect. We can agree to disagree on the causes, but certainly agree on the outcomes.

[Basket Case]

You should read a little more closely. If you can't recognize that I am defending myself, that's on you.

By the evidence you lay out here, you are obviously not one of the "personal freedom idiots". You are wearing a mask and recognize that the social contract weights more heavily than any infringements on our personal freedoms. You actually seem to be quite the opposite as what I am calling out, although, you seem to have waffled in your own reply. You say that you are wearing masks at times (per recommendations), but you are not willing to "trade your rights" for safety. I don't see how those can operate simultaneously.

I also agree with you that government should not mandate masks on private property. I have made that point many times. Not to mention that nobody is really calling for such mandates.

I just have to laugh at the smugness and condescending comment. You don't think that others don't reek of that as well? Obviously not, because they are on your side. I can share with you the personal PM's that thank me, but those were done in confidence, so while my approach may borderline brash at times, it is not any worse that I have been the recipient of. The problem with message boards is that tone is subjective to the person that is reading. It is VERY easy to misconstrue. I know, I have done it many times over the years.

Finally, you seem to gloss over the MANY times in which I have expressed empathy and sympathy for those that have been impacted by all of the events of 2020. You say by government rules, I say by government neglect. We can agree to disagree on the causes, but certainly agree on the outcomes.

I read through the whole post and the the only sort of name calling directed at you imo was Citizen suggesting you were pompous after you said "personal freedom idiots" and placed the motive as to why people dont wear masks.

I am wearing a mask to be decent to those around me and to get into certain events. I don't agree with any "social contract" overriding personal freedoms. (So I still may be a personal freedom idiot?)

I do not waffle at all. I will wear a mask at times, but I do not believe the government should mandate them - it should be my choice unless it is a government facility. The government is very much requiring masks to be worn on private property. Just because a business is open to the public doesnt mean it is not private property.

I don't disagree with you that you may very well be on the receiving end of harsh words and maybe name calling too, but that doesn't make it right for you to do the same. And in this thread, unless there are deleted posts, you certainly were the one who ramped up the rhetoric.