Voting

[catmanjack]

Key points if you are voting because you dislike Trump.
Unfortunately I hear over and over that I would never vote for Trump I do no like him he is a terrible person and Biden is likable.
If Biden win be ready for higher taxes, lose of gun rights, medical care for all and the move towards a socialist government.
I encourage those voting to really understand the underlying issues.

[UKHistory]

To vote for the Troll in Chief is a vote against:

1) The idea that no man is above the law
2) A competent response to global crisis as evidence by the current pandemic
3) A questionable stance towards Russia (or worse)
4) Violations of the Hatch Act, the Emoluments clause
5) Long-standing alliances such as NATO
6) An efficient government as opposed to one that is modeled after VEEP
7) Environmental policies that will damage the nation
8) Educational policies that will limit quality education for all Americans
9) Rational thought, kindness, leadership, articulate speech, being a gentleman, consensual sex as opposed to sexual assault
10) Ethical government
11) A Republic that requires loyalty to the U.S. Constitution over the cult of personality of America's most authoritarian political figure in history.

[CitizenBBN]

Curious what educational polices you object to. The only one Trump is big on that I'm aware of is school choice.

Most of the others apply to about every POTUS depending on who you like, esp. things like "cult of personality". Those things are leveled at Trump as propaganda, without any real basis or comparison. Was there ever a cult of personality bigger than Obama's? Hillary's? Please, Trump has people torpedoing him from within on a regular basis. If he's a cult of personality he's the worst one ever. Obama is the one that was able to get away with prosecuting journalists and whistleblowers at the highest rate ever and no one complained, even the media. Now THAT is a cult of personality. Obama and Clinton had people fall on their swords gleefully, and that is a better measure than Trump's rallies. Every POTUS has their devotees. It was leveled at conservatives like Reagan as well, but funny enough never at liberals, despite them being even stronger.

But I do want to hear re education, b/c I think that can transcend debating his persona and get down to policy. Given what is happening to education in this country and the indoctrination that passes for objectivity, I'm curious how he could make it worse without using air strikes.

[UKHistory]

I'm curious how he could make it worse without using air strikes.

I love that line. One of the best quips on this board ever.

[KeithKSR]

To vote for the Troll in Chief is a vote against:

1) The idea that no man is above the law
2) A competent response to global crisis as evidence by the current pandemic
3) A questionable stance towards Russia (or worse)
4) Violations of the Hatch Act, the Emoluments clause
5) Long-standing alliances such as NATO
6) An efficient government as opposed to one that is modeled after VEEP
7) Environmental policies that will damage the nation
8) Educational policies that will limit quality education for all Americans
9) Rational thought, kindness, leadership, articulate speech, being a gentleman, consensual sex as opposed to sexual assault
10) Ethical government
11) A Republic that requires loyalty to the U.S. Constitution over the cult of personality of America's most authoritarian political figure in history.

1) no laws have been shown to have been broken, and the Dems have tried mightily.
2) He was the first to offer a response to the pandemic by limiting flights from China, which your favored candidate wrongly attacked. Every tactic Biden has proposed with the exceptions of a mask mandate and a second shutdown were straight from what Trump had already done.
3) increased Russian sanctions and hitting them in the wallet where it counts by increasing sales of CNG and oil to Europe.
4) you must be confused with Kerry, who has violated the Hatch act with his shadow government diplomacy. The Emoluments clause cases were all tossed.
5) No alliances have been broken, but more of those NATO countries are paying for a bigger share of their protection.
6) Fewer employees and greater production is more efficient than the Obama era of mass government expansion.
7) CO2 output has decreased under Trump.
8) Money for HBCUs, pushing for school choice...
9) Sexual assault allegations went nowhere and were primarily disproven, but the allegations against Biden have been substantiated.
10) Obama/Biden was the most unethical administration since Nixon. IRS weaponized against conservatives, fast and furious, spying on the a Trump campaign...
11) Deregulation and repeal of the massive regulations pushed by Obama-Biden. Allegations of authoritarianism have been pushed by the left, but have proven to be unfounded. The left on the other hand are supporting groups pushing to dismantle our republic in favor of a Marxist authoritative government.

[VirginiaCat]

Amazingly good summation of democratic talking points. Too bad they’re all full of **** and not true

[kingcat]

If I may ask, how do you guys feel about the president's suggestion that his supporters vote for him twice? Both by mail and then in person to test the integrity of the system.

Especially since he and the first lady voted by mail in the Florida primary.

[KeithKSR]

If I may ask, how do you guys feel about the president's suggestion that his supporters vote for him twice? Both by mail and then in person to test the integrity of the system.

Especially since he and the first lady voted by mail in the Florida primary.

Actually he said if Election Day arrives and they have not had confirmation, then go to the polls. The intent was to draw a reaction by the left, which it did, because they know there are issues with vote by mail in many states.


“So let them send it in and let them go vote, and if their system’s as good as they say it is, then obviously they won’t be able to vote. If it isn’t tabulated, they’ll be able to vote.”

[kingcat]

Actually he said if Election Day arrives and they have not had confirmation, then go to the polls. The intent was to draw a reaction by the left, which it did, because they know there are issues with vote by mail in many states.


“So let them send it in and let them go vote, and if their system’s as good as they say it is, then obviously they won’t be able to vote. If it isn’t tabulated, they’ll be able to vote.”

I would think the fact that it is illegal would be sufficiant. Any person who votes or attempts to vote twice at the same election is guilty of a category D felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130.

Are there statistics on vote by mail fraud that you can link? I dont believe there are because as AG Barr stated in defense of trump when asked why there have been no findings however, of widespread fraud, he responded, "We haven't had the kind of widespread use of mail-in ballots that's being proposed."
I can rob a bank which is much more advantageous for me than voting twice.
That does not mean the legal system is flawed and everyone will start doing so.

I only know that the administration dropped their probe into election fraud three years ago without finding any widespread case of voter fraud.

And as for the president intent, it is most certainly not the fear of the system, but that by his supporters doing so that in itself creates a situation that damages the integrity of the system.
And which would obviously be the more likely and most egregious motive.

Besides, there are more pressing problems that should be addressed if such concerns are heartfelt.

The Department of Homeland Security’s intelligence branch issued the warning on Thursday to federal and state law enforcement partners after finding with “high confidence” that “Russian malign influence actors” have targeted the absentee voting process “by spreading disinformation” since at least March.


“Russian state media and proxy websites in mid-August 2020 criticized the integrity of expanded and universal vote-by-mail, claiming ineligible voters could receive ballots due to out-of-date voter rolls, leaving a vast amount of ballots unaccounted for and vulnerable to tampering,” the bulletin notes.

“These websites also alleged that vote-by-mail processes would overburden the U.S. Postal Service and local boards of election,” it continues, “delaying vote tabulation and creating more opportunities for fraud and error.”

Yep, those motives at least deserve questioning by anyone who values fair and honest elections over winning I think.

[kingcat]

"With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a great embarrassment to the USA. Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???"..Donald Trump
----------------------------------------------


“There is no rigid screening process that distinguishes the two methods of voting. Once registration and address are verified, the elections office will process the request and send the ballot. In Florida, almost 30% of votes in the last presidential election were cast by mail, and voters did not have to provide an excuse, be absent from the state, or go through an enhanced screening process. On this issue, Trump is simply wrong.”..DARREN HUTCHINSON (law professor at the University of Florida and elections expert)

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/07/th...f-voter-fraud/

Some of us, likely to include every living former president and many independent minded members of both parties, do indeed wonder how long will it be before there is a realization that the "deep state" may in fact be a state that has been through turmoil, wars, and constitutional growth for 244 years.
The United States of America.

And my personal opinion is that winning at any cost has become more important than this country to some on both political sides.
But is currently justified by supporters of this administration through attacks on every check and balance and long standing institution which might stand in the way of "victory".

Your low opinion of anyone who sides against Mr, Trump in any matter is well noted..but that shows how we much differ in opinion and how far apart we really are.

And none of us should doubt the veracity and support for either side of the debate by the amount of agreement they might find on any particular, and naturally biased discussion forum.

So given that and regardless of the pleasure it may bring, let's not trivialize every dissenting opinion.

[catmanjack]

Vote for Biden if you are ok with higher taxes and the lose of guns.
Not to mention socialist government and full control of your life!
Sounds like most want that and are happy working hard while the useless mooch off the federal government.
With that I eventually see an east and west America.

[Doc]

To vote for the Troll in Chief is a vote against:

1) The idea that no man is above the law
2) A competent response to global crisis as evidence by the current pandemic
3) A questionable stance towards Russia (or worse)
4) Violations of the Hatch Act, the Emoluments clause
5) Long-standing alliances such as NATO
6) An efficient government as opposed to one that is modeled after VEEP
7) Environmental policies that will damage the nation
8) Educational policies that will limit quality education for all Americans
9) Rational thought, kindness, leadership, articulate speech, being a gentleman, consensual sex as opposed to sexual assault
10) Ethical government
11) A Republic that requires loyalty to the U.S. Constitution over the cult of personality of America's most authoritarian political figure in history.

My turn:

1) are you referring to the GOP or the party for ILLEGAL immigration and sanctuary cities (where not just any man is above the law but rather entire races)?
2) are you referring to the GOP or the party that did nothing until 60,000,000 people contracted H1N1?
3) are you referring to the GOP or the party that sold Russia all that Uranium, told them they would have more flexibility after the election, or removed the missile defense shield that was pointed at Russia from Poland and the Chezc Republic?
4) are you referring to the GOP or the party that violated with John Kerry?
5) are you referring to the GOP or the party that allowed NATO to bilk its financial obligations.. which is ironic since one of their motto is demanding everybody pay their fair share?
6) are you referring to the GOP or the party of regulations?
7) are you referring to the GOP or the party of the 93 TRILLION dollare Green New Deal?
8) are you referring to the GOP or the party opposed to school choice and promoting closing in person schools?
9) are you referring to the GOP or a candidate who when he spouts a coherent sentence most are surprised. and who threatens to beat people up, or call them "fat", and who has recently been accused sexual assault?
10) are you referring to the GOP or the party that uses the IRS to go after its opponents, or the FBI to spy on the opposition by using falsified FISA applications?
11) are you referring to the GOP or the party that believes in leaking and lying?

the left is great at "transference"... accusing the other side of doing exactly what you are doing.

[Doc]

Fauci says 'there's no reason' in-person voting shouldn't be safe with masks and proper social distancing

What happened to "follow the science"?

[kingcat]

Vote for Biden if you are ok with higher taxes and the lose of guns.
Not to mention socialist government and full control of your life!
Sounds like most want that and are happy working hard while the useless mooch off the federal government.
With that I eventually see an east and west America.

Been yelling the same thing for thirty years. Thats what turned me away from the republican party.

1995: The government is full of jack-booted thugs in bucket helmets. "It doesn't matter to them that the semi-auto ban gives jack-booted government thugs more power to take away our constitutional rights, break in our doors, seize our guns, destroy our property, and even injure or kill us," LaPierre wrote in an NRA fundraising letter, according to the April 28, 1995 Washington Post. "Not too long ago, it was unthinkable for federal agents wearing Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms to attack law-abiding citizens... In Clinton's administration, if you have a badge, you have the government's go-ahead to harass, intimidate, even murder law-abiding citizens," he wrote. "Even murder" was underlined. A rival, more radical NRA official suggested LaPierre respond, "If the jackboot fits, wear it." He later tried and failed to oust LaPierre, according to the May 1997 American Spectator.)

Taxes? Look at the deficit and tell me it has been addressed with this administration. An increase in taxes is inevitable..especially as debt, the economy, and individual income grows. That is way more a matter of representation in congress anyway.

Go out and meet those "useless" Americans in need. Or as some seem to propose, lump them into a pile and burn them with the other trash. Thats been done before, and a whole nation thought they did God a service by doing so. And the net result is, more for us.
There is too much "they and them" thrown around these days. God forgive us and change our hearts.

As for full control of your life. That has been the republican agenda for a long time. Socialism as in Social Security and the like which received the same ridicule? Rather, the party of McCarthyism once again promoting fear and mistrust to control their base.

What I see is history recording the great deception of conservatives in America in this generation. Especially the religious far right. And dont mistake me..the far left is just as bad in their own way. And has inspired the right to forsake democracy..

Or the Lord returning soon which is my strong hope. Anyway I'm done with my rant, and mean no offense to anyone,, especially not Jack in this post. Those are the political footballs being tossed around every four years by one side. The other side does it too.

[CitizenBBN]

I would think the fact that it is illegal would be sufficiant. Any person who votes or attempts to vote twice at the same election is guilty of a category D felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130.

Are there statistics on vote by mail fraud that you can link? I dont believe there are because as AG Barr stated in defense of trump when asked why there have been no findings however, of widespread fraud, he responded, "We haven't had the kind of widespread use of mail-in ballots that's being proposed."
I can rob a bank which is much more advantageous for me than voting twice.
That does not mean the legal system is flawed and everyone will start doing so.

I only know that the administration dropped their probe into election fraud three years ago without finding any widespread case of voter fraud.

And as for the president intent, it is most certainly not the fear of the system, but that by his supporters doing so that in itself creates a situation that damages the integrity of the system.
And which would obviously be the more likely and most egregious motive.

Besides, there are more pressing problems that should be addressed if such concerns are heartfelt.

The Department of Homeland Security’s intelligence branch issued the warning on Thursday to federal and state law enforcement partners after finding with “high confidence” that “Russian malign influence actors” have targeted the absentee voting process “by spreading disinformation” since at least March.


“Russian state media and proxy websites in mid-August 2020 criticized the integrity of expanded and universal vote-by-mail, claiming ineligible voters could receive ballots due to out-of-date voter rolls, leaving a vast amount of ballots unaccounted for and vulnerable to tampering,” the bulletin notes.

“These websites also alleged that vote-by-mail processes would overburden the U.S. Postal Service and local boards of election,” it continues, “delaying vote tabulation and creating more opportunities for fraud and error.”

Yep, those motives at least deserve questioning by anyone who values fair and honest elections over winning I think.

somehow in that announcement you failed to mention that that same source assessed that while Russia was a threat, that China was an even larger one, and that it is working for Biden.

Just an oversight I'm sure.

[kingcat]

somehow in that announcement you failed to mention that that same source assessed that while Russia was a threat, that China was an even larger one, and that it is working for Biden.

Just an oversight I'm sure.

But, if I am correct on the matter, any Chinese actions are not related to the absentee voting campaign that Russia is orchestrating. That is what makes it relative to the discussion.
I was not just slinging it out there and hoping it stuck in someone's craw..

..and what is a craw by the way? I never knew. I have heard people say stuck in their crawl before,, which I thought was funny. But the joke may have been on me for all I know.

Anyway although I've heard of it, I cannot find the warning issued by the DHS release on China's activity. Only by the Trump administration's man, Ratcliffe.
Perhaps the release of that info is being blocked as they tried with the Russian warning.

I guess there will be no more releases until they list only things beneficial to this administrations political whims. We can then change the name to the Department of
all things Trump security.

[KeithKSR]

But, if I am correct on the matter, any Chinese actions are not related to the absentee voting campaign that Russia is orchestrating. That is what makes it relative to the discussion.
I was not just slinging it out there and hoping it stuck in someone's craw..

..and what is a craw by the way? I never knew. I have heard people say stuck in their crawl before,, which I thought was funny. But the joke may have been on me for all I know.

Anyway although I've heard of it, I cannot find the warning issued by the DHS release on China's activity. Only by the Trump administration's man, Ratcliffe.
Perhaps the release of that info is being blocked as they tried with the Russian warning.

I guess there will be no more releases until they list only things beneficial to this administrations political whims. We can then change the name to the Department of
all things Trump security.

https://www.salon.com/2020/09/03/bil...ussia_partner/

Seems counterintuitive to both lobby for mail in voting and claim there is no evidence of mail in voting fraud while at the same time posting about the Russians planning on fraud through mail in voting.

It also seems you missed this article altogether: https://nypost.com/2020/08/29/politi...il-in-ballots/

[kingcat]

https://www.salon.com/2020/09/03/bil...ussia_partner/

Seems counterintuitive to both lobby for mail in voting and claim there is no evidence of mail in voting fraud while at the same time posting about the Russians planning on fraud through mail in voting.

It also seems you missed this article altogether: https://nypost.com/2020/08/29/politi...il-in-ballots/

if you read closely you will see you are mistaken about what the Russians are reportedly doing. I am not posting opinion articles or the like...this was a warning from the department of homeland security.

As for as the Post article if it were reliable Im sure AG Barr would have got to the bottom of it instead of saying it was only the potential for fraud that caused concern.
As has been pointed out many times here, anytime you read read about the political insider, who spoke on condition of anonymity it should send up a red flag.

I hear they are anti-NYT. Much like Fox and CNN. I dont actually read the Post, although they are a very colorful site I must say.

Very cartoon'ish.(Not a knock on them,, just something that stuck out at that link)