If my mother was trying to torch or vandalize a federal building, or beat on innocent people, or hurling rocks at police officers, or destroying public property....you are 100% correct. I would support Trump in that, just like I would had it occurred under BHO, GHWB, GB or Bill Clinton. But then I doubt my mother would ever do that, or set up an autonious zone. Of course she was known to occasionally beat on children but then I deserved that tooOriginally Posted by UKHistory
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
Ironically, there was no video or any photographs of the alleged event, while video of the rioters damaging a federal courthouse is plentiful.
I'd call it "A group of wannabe stormtrumpers confronting a proud U.S. military man" No contest imho.
Opened hearts and minds can't hide from the statement it makes.
Video of the event from the site I linked.
https://twitter.com/PDXzane/status/1284726088187310080
Last edited by kingcat; 07-23-2020 at 04:22 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
What happened prior to that? All this shows is a reaction by the police. What instigated it? Was he one of those breaking windows of the federal building.....or is that not possible because he is wearing a Navy sweatshirt? I ask because I do not know
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
Way I see it,just consider these federal agents are "peaceful protestors". Then their actions are justifable.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
Was that a rubber baton? The guy walked away uninjured.
Looks like the Portland police declared the “peaceful protests” to be riots.
This is prior to the feds arrival
https://www.facebook.com/20195699316...5/?d=null&vh=e
The building covered in graffiti is a federal building, one I helped pay for. It is not a city or state build but a federal one that is being vandalized and set on fire. City officials have been doing nofhing to protect it or the people around it. The federal agents did not escalate anything. They identidied the aggitators, and in some cases allowed them to exit the area before arresting (in an effort to minimize escalation as well maximozing their safety). Federal agent would not be needed had anarchy not gone unaddressed for 2 months
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
The actions of the officer tell a different story like something was said or the guy did something to provoke the actions.
No it does not tell the story at all. There may or may not be more of a story than what we witness in the video, but to say you actually see it proves the point.
Some seem to not care regardless. And don't even respect the soldier and his views enough to read his story.
Now, I understand and respect the opinions of everyone here. I also understand we often differ from each other. Yet, I agree with dealing with criminals who take occasion during times like this to vent in criminal ways.
But if it's going to be done, let it be a badged member of law enforcement or branch of the military that confronts its citizens. Not unidentifiable, masked agents with free reign of the streets by order of the White House and politically targeted.
Americans must see the danger in that.
And that's all I can really say on the matter...except, GO CATS!
Last edited by kingcat; 07-23-2020 at 09:17 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
I see more danger in the riots and out of control cities like Portland and Seattle not to mention the BLM.
There is a reason a county in Oregon wants out and does not agree with the riots and liberals.
Be a true American and stop trying to tear the country apart.
At some point we have to stop lumping everyone into one kettle. Organized active protest and unrest is as American as apple pie.
We must allow the states to remain the predominant power in policing its citizens within their borders as the constitution calls for. Or we are in effect calling for the eventual downfall of America, imo. Maybe not at this moment, and maybe not of this administration..but at some point in the future. Perhaps a Democrat led administration, who knows.
It happened in nazi germany...and it can happen again if Americans continue to hate each other for entertainment. And support any measures by the government to further that cause.
Because in reality, it is a game complete with rivalries and the same nonsense found in sports. Even televised with its own version of the Vitales, Walton's and Bilas'es catering to the emotions of the home crowd.
Hopefully it all blows over and common sense prevails. That's still an option.
Last edited by kingcat; 07-23-2020 at 09:47 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
What the federal officers are there for is not "organized ptotests". Barricading and torching buildings is not a protest, it is a crime. Enforcing the law is as American as pie. I seem to recall the slogan "Nobody is above the law" being thrown around whole lot recently. Or does that not apply to everybody? Defacing property is against the law. They were not rounding up protesters. They were rounding up crimminals.
PS these were not " unmarked, masked agents". Each and every one had their department marked on their clothing. As for masked, that is antifa garb. The officers wore protective helments, as they should considering the typical response to any LEO by the unlawful rioting crowd is to hurl rocks, bottle, fireworks, etc
Last edited by Doc; 07-23-2020 at 10:31 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
Unless your view is that anyone involved in the protests are criminals, that is incorrect.
Antifa??
My reference to masks was related to the video. And certainly they needed to wear masks while they were jumping to pepper spray the navy veteran in the face point blank. According the him and other reports by legal observers and local journalists they did not wear any dept. or branch insignia.
The fact is, they were taking people off the street, without charges, and interrogating them. Some were let go without release paperwork.
"Heightening tensions during the protest is the presence of federal law enforcement agents. Video shared on social media from last week showed what appear to be federal officers in unmarked cars arresting people without explanation, prompting outcry and lawsuits"
The protesters were grouped all together as "violent anarchists" from the outset..
"The presence of federal authorities in the city has ramped up ever since, and acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf last Thursday during a visit to the city called the demonstrators "violent anarchists."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ms/5470780002/
---------------------------------------------
On Friday, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Oregon filed a lawsuit against DHS and the U.S. Marshals Service over tactics used by agents against peaceful protesters such as the use of tear gas, rubber bullets and acoustic weapons.
The suit was filed on behalf of legal observers and local journalists...
...Federal officers have charged at least 13 people with crimes related to the protests so far, Oregon Public Broadcasting reported Thursday. Some have been detained by the federal courthouse, which has been the scene of protests.
But others were reportedly grabbed blocks away....Fox News
That's thirteen potential criminals which required such action.
The good news is, I believe they have withdrawn.
---------------------------------------------------
Oregon Democratic Sen. Jeff Merkely said this morning if Wolf is coming to inflame the situation in Portland so the President can “look tough,” the acting DHS leader should leave.
“Federal forces shot an unarmed protester in the face,” Merkely said in a tweet. “These shadowy forces have been escalating, not preventing, violence.”
Oregon Gov. Kate Brown similarly called for federal law enforcement officers to leave Portland. She added, Wolf is on a “mission to provoke confrontation for political purposes.”
“This political theater from President Trump has nothing to do with public safety,” Brown said in a statement. “The President is failing to lead this nation. Now he is deploying federal officers to patrol the streets of Portland in a blatant abuse of power by the federal government.”
Federal Law Enforcement Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab Protesters Off Portland Streets
But we will all believe what best suits our opinions I guess. All facts are mitigated to mean little anymore..
Maybe I'm no different.
Last edited by kingcat; 07-24-2020 at 02:05 AM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
What’s being reported currently has shown to lack facts.
This is so misguided position it is not even funny.
When a locality or state refused to enforec their own laws and that action is endangering the safety of US Citizens and/or their property is it encumbent upon the Federal government to step in and enforce the law of the land and to remove the governments not holding up their civic duty.
Kingcat, you really need to see the videos of what is really going on there if you think there are only 13 people who deserve to be arrested in Portland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7vlKbR3Gcs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kt5ALeWv4U
Here is a video interview of a police officer from a few weeks ago discuss how the situation has devolved from some protesters with a legit complaint to looters and white kids causing trouble. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha-7SETmJD4
Keith, I have no doubt there were quite a few and no wish to defend criminals. I would hope those from a few weeks ago involved in this stuff were among the thirteen plus now charged.
And would highly commend the capable police departments for doing so.
Thing is, what is really going on there is best described by state government, local observers, and journalists. And the peaceful protesters themselves.
My point has been we really need to see the things I have stated are going on there too. And you can justify similar sweeping actions against protests which happen in authoritarian countries too.
That's the whole point, all the baby's with the bath water and such.
(edit)
I would also like to add that lessening the requirement for any administrations federal intervention in a state's business, against that state's wishes and usurping policing power over that state, may be the downfall of democracy in an election year one day.
And an extremely sad day that would be. This is a critical situation that every citizen must weigh in their mind, without political influence.
And the political climate is such that it requires much thought from every perspective.
Right or wrong, I assure everyone, I am trying my best to look at it from the proper perspective. Yet I keep coming up with the same opinion.
Last edited by kingcat; 07-24-2020 at 12:07 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
Kingcat, if you think that the federal government has no business interfering in the state’s business you need to take a good course in US history. The history of federal law enforcement officers intervening in local riots dates back to George Washington.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
People seem to be confusing US military needing state or city cooperation and the legislated duties of DHS. They also conveniently forget that the President is the chief law enforcement officer in the nation.
Forgetting and ignoring are not the same thing. You can bet they did not "forget" when Obama was using federal agencies in Ferguson.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-sends-...ry?id=27084669
https://www.vox.com/2014/8/16/602453...-michael-brown
Last edited by Doc; 07-24-2020 at 12:36 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
If I am not mistaken the governor had declared a state of emergency and activated the Missouri National Guard. And the dispatched FBI personnel worked under the umbrella, or at least alongside the States Emergency Operations Center.
I am a bit surprised you supported this and the Waco thing.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
I support law and order. I do not support the burning or vandalizing of public or other peoples private property. WACO was neither. (I did not support agents in Waco...however I don't beat up Clinton for doing it). As for Ferguson, government intervention was needed. Unfortunaely Obama used it to further the racism agenda rather than quell violence regardless of political stance (and while I disagree with HOW he used them--to advance his personal view rather than stop the violence. He imported Eric Holder to deal with it in manner that served the political agenda, I don't disagree with using them... and won't beat him up for doing so). But more importantly is rhe hypocrisy of the left. Federal agents intervening is fine when Obama or Clinton was president but now it is Trumps personal militia
Last edited by Doc; 07-24-2020 at 01:08 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
Utilizing federal law enforcement officers doesn’t require a declaration, but then you seem to be all for rioters and Antifa attempting to set fire to a federal courthouse with federal LEOs inside, which is attempted murder.
Waco and Ruby Ridge were examples of the government invading private property. In this case you have a bunch of mostly white upper middle class rioters bent on destruction of public property.
Yes, which is why I was not in support of going into Waco, but I am not going to bash Clinton for doing so. He did what he thought was correct as president. Even though it was not a decision I agree with, I can see why he did what he did. Too bad the left only sees one thing... it was Trumps decision hence it must be racist, divisive or something to enhance his power.
Last edited by Doc; 07-24-2020 at 02:54 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
It should be noted that these were the individuals that the Federal Agents were tasked with arresting, not the peaceful protestors. Dave needs to watch the video you linked where the agents go after the ones barring the door and swinging hammers, while the agents ignored the nonviolent, nonvandalizing peaceful protesters. He wants to lump the peaceful ones with the agitators. It was the later group that the DHS, etc were targeting, and according to the video the ones they interacted with. The peaceful ones were left along. The democratic mayor and governor, and the media can say what they want but the video shows something different. Me, I believe my eyes, not what a bias media or somebody who has an agenda against the action.
Last edited by Doc; 07-24-2020 at 02:55 PM.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
I don’t think the black militant should be allowed in the city of Louisville to protest.
Think the federal government troops should be in the city also to break them up.
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