Misuse and Abuse of Power Using DHS personnel in Unconstitutional ways

[VirginiaCat]

People seem to be confusing US military needing state or city cooperation and the legislated duties of DHS. They also conveniently forget that the President is the chief law enforcement officer in the nation.

They have also forgotten a service line called the US Marshalls...

[VirginiaCat]

I don’t think the black militant should be allowed in the city of Louisville to protest.
Think the federal government troops should be in the city also to break them up.

They have a right to be there. Especially if they have a permit. It is the lawlessness and violence and property destruction that DEMANDS local and state authorities enforce the law and make arrests. Whey they do not, it is the obligation of Federal law enforcement to do so.

[catmanjack]

No I understand they have a right but if Oregon does not think the feds should be allowed I dot think the terror groups should be allowed.

[VirginiaCat]

No I understand they have a right but if Oregon does not think the feds should be allowed I dot think the terror groups should be allowed.

Agree

[CitizenBBN]

Well another bunch of peaceful protestors moved to Eugene where they launched fireworks at a federal courthouse, broke windows, destroyed signs, etc.

These groups are being funded. I just about guarantee from Soros or some other outside source.

[Doc]

Cracks me up that the DHS agents are "anonymous, masked, and unidentifiable" despite them being patched with "DSH" on their uniforms. And they are arresting people dressed like this who are throwing bricks, rocks and frozen bottles at people while vandalizing property

[catmanjack]

Looking at that group what value to they add to society? You think any of them are hard working?

[CitizenBBN]

Looking at that group what value to they add to society? You think any of them are hard working?

Spoiled white upper middle class kids who wouldn't know which end of a shovel to hold. out there screaming about the oppressed as if they even know what that means.

[dan_bgblue]

any of them are hard working?

Well none of them appear to be malnourished

[Basket Case]

I did. And still do. This problem of Federal troops being used in Unconstitutional ways didn't begin and won't end with Trump. But he has a flare for authoritarianism.

I have no issue with DHS securing government buildings. This includes entrances, side walks, key streets including exit/entrance ramps to high ways. I have needed their assistance in fact more than once over the past couple of years.

What I have a concern is with DHS roving through a community in unmarked vehicles dressed as soldiers instead of law enforcement arresting people under dubious circumstances.

The mission creep of DHS under a different administration would be condemned by most of us on this board.

I'm late to the party, but I agree with this whole post. We do not need federal police. It's a travesty that there are a lot of innocent people that get caught up in a complete lack of law and order, but that is a local issue and they should demand better from their elected officials. Where will the bar be set to allow the feds to swarm a locale?


With that being said, why does the does the author write (in the initial link) "Under fire for dispatching federal law enforcement into cities in defiance of local leaders, in part to create TV imagery that sends an authoritarian thrill up President Trump’s leg"? Why can't these issues get debated on their merit rather than inject this pathetic language that assumes the other side just has an authoritarian desire? It's easy for me to see the rationale for those to restore law and order with the use of federal troops, I just do not believe the feds should usurp the states here.

[catmanjack]

When your state/city is being run by children and placing innocent people in danger the Feds do most certainly need to be involved and should be.

[Basket Case]

When your state/city is being run by children and placing innocent people in danger the Feds do most certainly need to be involved and should be.

I completely agree with your premise that these cities are extremely poorly run. Those are the officials the people chose for themselves. The issue is not that the police force is overwhelmed and they asked for help, the issue is that the people that were duly elected, have decided to stand down. I think it is moronic, but the people have spoken and that is what they want. Why do you think any individual has the authority to nullify this?

[CitizenBBN]

Why do you think any individual has the authority to nullify this?

For the same reason the Federal authority could nullify George Wallace standing in the schoolhouse door.

As history knows, he and I agree on the issues with the militarization of the police. I disagree completely in the military giving up-armored Humvees and other assault equipment free to county police forces, and I disagree with the whole mentality that has separated police from communities.

That being said, the people creating the issues in this case are not the "community". They are looking to do harm and cause damage and when that happens it's time to not mess around, put on the riot gear and shut it down.

Also, I agree the feds should not step in often or unless absolutely necessary, but every single American has basic rights and when the local authorities refuse to protect them then there is no choice.

In the Civil Rights Movement that required federal intervention to protect minorities. If one accepts it may be necessary to do so to protect Constitutional rights, then we can't pick and choose which rights, and surely the rights of life and property are in there somewhere.

that shop owner or citizen may not have voted for those fools, and even if they did they don't then get to be abandoned under the law.

And I do NOT like that option, to be clear. I'm a big Federalist, but if state and local authorities refuse to protect our basic rights then surely we can appeal to the last level of our government.

[KeithKSR]

What’s really going on in Portland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38PkqmYyNP8

[KeithKSR]

This guy is a Portland native, and lives nearby. He has a lot of friends there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-nCV7P7FK8

[kingcat]

Has there also possibly been a covert effort here to sow unrest? First hand experience tells me that members of these groups seldom, if ever, do anything like this without an organizational blessing or agenda.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mi...?ocid=msedgdhp

[CitizenBBN]

Sure, you probably have white supremacists in this too, along with Antifa, Soros, BLM, and a host of others. They're a tiny percentage bc, by any estimate, they are a very small group of people in this country, and they lack any real funding or support, unlike those groups backed by Soros.

All have the same goal, which is chaos and forcing the second Civil War.

The solution is to stop pretending these are candlelight vigil protests and start arresting people who are out there causing violence. The right to peacefully assemble doesn't include throwing rocks, moltov cocktails and fireworks at anyone, busting out windows, looting, etc.

But if you think the participation of some right wing groups mean that left wing groups are somehow in the clear, that's mistaken. Clearly the vast majority of this is from left wing extremist groups and general anarchist groups. But none of that matters, what matters is supporting the rule of law and arresting these fools. These are not lawful or Constitutional protests of any sort, so stop them.

[kingcat]

I've defended neither. But I thought this deserved pointing out.

[KeithKSR]

Has there also possibly been a covert effort here to sow unrest? First hand experience tells me that members of these groups seldom, if ever, do anything like this without an organizational blessing or agenda.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mi...?ocid=msedgdhp

ANTIFA has turned BLM protests violent, and a lot of the black people don’t like it. ANTIFA is comprised primarily of white millennials. Soros spent millions getting his DAs elected to keep them out of jail.

There probably are a few far right activists involved, but the numbers appear quite low. Portland and Seattle are all left wing extremists.

https://www.city-journal.org/antifa-...utonomous-zone

[CitizenBBN]

These Antifa groups have come in on the heels of the Floyd death and BLM and at this point all but taken over the ground, at least out west. Every picture is full of 20-30 year old white kids screaming not about minority rights but about capitalism and social justice.

I'm sure it attracts all kinds of fringe people, from white supremacists to the crazy people who talk to themselves on street corners, but the vast majority clearly is an Antifa driven event.

[Catonahottinroof]

The bigger ruse in all of this is people making a racial issue out of the protestors....which are violent and which ones aren’t and labeling by race..a complete non-sequitur to the discussion.
Violence is violence regardless of who it is.