School or no school?

[Doc]

And for the follow the science crowd who oppose, this should be interesting.

Science says yes on several fronts. First, adolescents are highly resistant to both disease and being a vector.

Second is student development, both intellectually and socially, is stunted by prolonged isolation

Third, while not the purpose (at least IMO) schools act as a parent/safety monitor/daycare/provider for many lower income families.

I know teachers unions and other democrats do not favor yet are upset that the federal govt is threatening to withhold federal funding to schools that don't open. My question is if the schools are not open, why the need for funding? Or is it to pay the outrageous pensions???

[kingcat]

On a personal, level, as I have career teachers and nurses in the family who are also parents of school age children, it's not a political matter. They and their immediate families have concerns.
Opinions aren't split across political lines at all, except for a handful of those who have few irons in the fire as it were.

Seriously, I may be the only Democrat voter out of fifty or sixty family members and it seems the whole covid situation is mostly judged on personal risk level of each individual and their family. Among my rather large family at least.

An example is that I just retuned overnight from a week in Ormand beach. Let's just say that our decision to go with my daughter's family has not been well received by more than a handful of the most conservative hard core republican relatives. Even the ones who were convinced it was all some democratic hoax and didnt exist.

[Doc]

On a personal, level, as I have career teachers and nurses in the family who are also parents of school age children, it's not a political matter. They and their immediate families have concerns.
Opinions aren't split across political lines at all, except for a handful of those who have few irons in the fire as it were.

Seriously, I may be the only Democrat voter out of fifty or sixty family members and it seems the whole covid situation is mostly judged on personal risk level of each individual and their family. Among my rather large family at least.

An example is that I just retuned overnight from a week in Ormand beach. Let's just say that our decision to go with my daughter's family has not been well received by more than a handful of the most conservative hard core republican relatives. Even the ones who were convinced it was all some democratic hoax and didnt exist.

the bolded portion is how it should be...but its not. My opinion is if a parent does not want their child in school based on their risks and concerns, fine. Don't send them. And others are not concerned and should be able to send them if they so desire. As for teachers, if they have concerns then don't work. Just don't take a paycheck. Its their choice. Unfortunately there is a large political segment that is for closing schools to all, where individual risks and evaluations are moot. The idea that there is not political aspect to this is wrong because the basic question is a political one. Do parents have the right to determine the course or is it the governments job?

[dan_bgblue]

Do parents have the right to determine the course or is it the governments job?

If the government does not force the schools to remain open then the parents do not have the choice to send their children to school.

[kingcat]

I think as best you can, and using the closest we can come to a consensus in the medical community you must follow their recommendations. That's for everyone.

If not, then those who make the decision to do otherwise should be held liable for the safety of those children related to covid19 as well as their immediate families. Should an outbreak occur, no entity should have immunity from legal action.
From POTUS on down.

But neither is a perfect solution.

[Basket Case]

Second is student development, both intellectually and socially, is stunted by prolonged isolation

Third, while not the purpose (at least IMO) schools act as a parent/safety monitor/daycare/provider for many lower income families.

To expand on these points a little, the lower income students are much more adversly affected by this. I need to find the article I read that quantified the impact that not being in school had on the lower income districts. It was stunning to me how much impact it had on the student proficiencies for that short time period.

I understand an individual teacher's concern with safety, but I agree with Doc that if you have health concerns, don't work, but you don't get paid either.

I completely support going back to school full time

[KeithKSR]

The science says to move forward with school, and I agree. Our district will be having in person classes on August 10th, with an option to do NTI. I recommended to my daughter to send the two school age grandchildren.

I retired at the beginning of this month and won’t be starting back in August.

[catmanjack]

Will be NTI for the first 6 weeks here as I am being told, vote will be Tuesday.

[Basket Case]

Remote Learning Widens Education Gap

From the WSJ article:

JACKSON, Miss.—After schools shut down in March, LaKenya Bunton would get home around 7 a.m. from an overnight quality-control job at a factory, doze for a few hours, then become teacher to her 16-year-old son, Amarrius.

Her son, a rising sophomore, had received no remote-learning materials from his school and didn’t hear from most of his teachers. Ms. Bunton’s method included collecting Amarrius’s cellphone and handing him the day’s work: a packet of practice college-prep questions she printed from the internet.

“I’m educating him the best way I can,” said Ms. Bunton, a 41-year-old single mother. “I don’t want him to be behind.”......


Another excerpt:

"Preliminary research suggests students nationwide will return to school in the fall with roughly 70% of learning gains in reading relative to a typical school year, and less than 50% in math, according to projections by NWEA, an Oregon-based nonprofit education-services firm. It expects a greater learning loss for minority and low-income children, who have less access to technology and whose families are more likely to be affected by the economic downturn.

About 26 million public-school students, just over half in the U.S., are considered low-income and rely on free or reduced-price meals at school."

[blueboss]

Lootyville going with NTI for first six weeks, then drop back and punt. Across the river in New Albany they’re going back to the classrooms. Neighbor across street who works in middle school office went back two weeks ago for school year preparations.


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[UKHistory]

The science says to move forward with school, and I agree. Our district will be having in person classes on August 10th, with an option to do NTI. I recommended to my daughter to send the two school age grandchildren.

I retired at the beginning of this month and won’t be starting back in August.

Keith, do you have a source. I am not sure I am seeing that. Young people appear to suffer through COVID better than older demographics. But what about teachers, bus drivers, the general public they may come into contact with?

I don't have an answer but curious where you say the science says for them to go back to school. Social distancing in many classrooms is quite unrealistic.

Staggered schedules could work. Use of the gymnasiums and cafeterias would reduce some space issues.

One thing that is interesting is that for my entire career, Republicans have feared Federal interference with state and local education issues. Now instead of supporting state and local determinations, it threatens reduced funding.

The change in position goes against the spirit of how education has been viewed by the GOP.

[KeithKSR]

Keith, do you have a source. I am not sure I am seeing that. Young people appear to suffer through COVID better than older demographics. But what about teachers, bus drivers, the general public they may come into contact with?

I don't have an answer but curious where you say the science says for them to go back to school. Social distancing in many classrooms is quite unrealistic.

Staggered schedules could work. Use of the gymnasiums and cafeterias would reduce some space issues.

One thing that is interesting is that for my entire career, Republicans have feared Federal interference with state and local education issues. Now instead of supporting state and local determinations, it threatens reduced funding.

The change in position goes against the spirit of how education has been viewed by the GOP.

Here is an article on the German study: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/ar...ate-in-schools

Overall the schools in Europe and Asia that have reopened have found there is no resulting spread of virus associated with reopening.

One of the considerations our district has had is students attending on a Mon-Thurs or a Tues-Fri rotation. I don’t know if numbers will warrant that schedule as an initial survey only had about 40% opting for in person attendance, with the rest opting for online or packet NTI. At 40% class sizes would be 10 for elementary classrooms and around 12 for middle and high school classes. Those numbers make social distancing possible.

[kingcat]

Whatever happens, I just hope the decisions made serve to benefit the children and their families. I just can't offer an educated opinion on the matter.
The politics of it all is evident on both sides of the discussion and it should not be a consideration. The teachers, administrators and medical community must have the final say imo.

I do know that to go against anything nearing consensus opinion by them will be considered historically criminal.

[UKHistory]

Thanks I will review the study. Europe has seemed to handle the virus better than us. That may factor in but I am glad to review the study to see its findings.

[KSRBEvans]

The evidence is contradictory. Some countries had little to no problem, other countries (e.g. Israel) had significant issues when reopening.

Anecdotally, my son is teaching English in Japan and in his schools there have been few, if any, problems. But the country generally and the schools specifically took a lot of precautions early that many in the U.S. see as a gross infringement of their rights.

Here's a Science Magazine article on the topic (warning: it's inconclusive on many of the issues schools will inevitably encounter as they decide whether to reopen):

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...pite-outbreaks

[StuBleedsBlue2]

Thanks I will review the study. Europe has seemed to handle the virus better than us. That may factor in but I am glad to review the study to see its findings.

That absolutely IS a factor. We are not comparing apples to apples.

Germany has basically 200-500 cases per day and single digit deaths during the time the study was performed (which I had to research a little more, links below), and it's one single study in a place describes as "included testing in schools where there were coronavirus outbreaks". Not are.

The study isn't even linked.

Additional links:
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020...y-schools.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/14/scho...udy-finds.html

One other fact to consider is that this study is simply a Phase 1.

Let's take this for what it is though because I do think that it adds to the conversation. In areas where there are minimal cases and that have flattened the curve, it appears that schools as a super spreader are very minimal, or non-existent. Well, duh...

My take on opening schools is exactly that. Where it is safe to do so, do it. Where it is not, don't.

The article as evidence of "science" on the side of a national policy to the US opening schools is laughable.

[VirginiaCat]

From what I can tell, and I run 3 private day schools for special needs children...

there has not been one documented case, worldwide, of a student passing the virus to a teacher.

[KeithKSR]

From what I can tell, and I run 3 private day schools for special needs children...

there has not been one documented case, worldwide, of a student passing the virus to a teacher.

That seems to be the case.

It looks like our district is set to delay the start of school for students until August 26th. Teachers will work the two weeks prior to that to work on setting up online coursework for those students who parents choose the NTI option for. Right now it looks like only 40% of the students will be using the in person option. The remainder have chose the NTI option or the hybrid option.

[Doc]

From what I can tell, and I run 3 private day schools for special needs children...

there has not been one documented case, worldwide, of a student passing the virus to a teacher.

That would be science that disagrees with the lefts agenda, hence it will be ignored.