Let the Police all walk off the job and the Anti-gun Liberals, inner city high crime areas would find out quickly how vital the Police officers are.
Supporters of the police/Conservatives generally KNOW and appreciate them. We are fully capable of self-defense but still rest easier knowing help is a 911 call away.
The people I feel the worst for are the older folks living in the high crime areas that are very good people. And there’s a bunch of them.
Darryl
Why is that Darryl. Is it maybe because those need them interact with them not as relatives or friends but as subjugated people by an occupied force?
And if I was confronted with loud, obnoxious, violent criminal behavior day in and day out I would be jaded and suspicious and look at folks as the enemy too.
Law enforcement is a tough job. We have militarized the police and that is a disservice to them. Over the years we have raised issues about EPA, USDA, ED having swat like teams. Rand Paul has criticized this.
We have seen DHS provide grans for heavy armored vehicles to communities of every size. We have talked about the dangers of this.
We have decried civil forfeiture and denounced the abuse of the FBI against Flynn.
Law enforcement at every level is critical. We need to be respectful and thankful for those on the frontline.
This respect, however, should not give a blank check to bad behavior. We have a president who belittled police who were to suspects as they are arrested. Trump dismissed the notion that cops should be nice. I won’t quote him but trump encouraged p9lice to be aggressive with suspects.
There is no place for looting and rioting under the guise of protected speech.
But as we watch from the Rodney king beating to George Floyd people on both political sides agree the behavior is bad.
What about the behavior not caught on tape? It makes people wonder.
Braenna Taylor’s home was raided without notice. And without the police identifying themselves. Her boyfriend exercised his second amendment right to defend the home and the police killed the woman.
We have read similar stories about elderly white people and others.
Mistakes happen but these mistakes cannot easily corrected.
I am thankful for the law and those who implement the law for society’s good. But proper oversight is needed. Police holding one another accountable is critical.
It is about serve and protect; not search and destroy.
Maybe its because they see them as occupying force rather than public servants. Most police officers, by a large large majority are there to protect and serve. Occasionally you get a bad apple. Unfortunately that happens, but I would wagger they encounter more bad apples in their jobs daily than the "subjugated" do in years worth of interaction with the police. Of course that is no excuse for what was done in Minneapolis. Nothing justifies that...but neither does that justify random killing of LEOs or vandizing/stealing and violence. The carnage by looters over the last week has far outdone any brutality that the police have carried out.
For me, the people of the communities reap what the sow. You accept a crimminal element and you get a crimminal element
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
No one is asking for the police to go away. We are asking for them to treat everyone equally and when they don't to not cover up for one another and hold them accountable, not some of the time, but ALL of the time.
The whole idea of "a few bad apples" is completely not supported by the data. To be honest, though, I'm not even sure what that phrase means. Even if that were a reality, there is a cover-up that the "good apples", simply by looking the other way, are complicit.
I don't get that argument that is implied here, well if you don't like the way things are now, then imagine a life without them. What is wrong with simply demanding equality and accountability?
Show us that data
In this case there was no cover up. Guy is charged with second degre muder and the otther three with accessory to murder
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
Stu, we have thousands upon thousands of police officers in America. Even if you gave examples of 100 bad police officers, that's a few bad apples. The truth is most black people by a large margin are good people, most white people by a large margin are good people, most cops by a large margin are good people. We love to focus on the small percentage and group everyone in to those categories because it's convenient. We need to identify those small trouble areas and keep everyone else out of those categories. All the people getting hurt in all this, emotionally or physically seem to be the good people.
Searching for an agenda any data can be found to support that agenda.
All lives matter, each individual has the same opportunity as the other.
Why do some constantly put themselves in a position as the gentleman in Minnesota, he was causing a disruption that lead to his unfortunate encounter with this scum of a cop, stop being criminals and lead productive lives that’s what I hope for.
If we were generally good people we would not need laws. We all have rights and those rights should be protected
Believing 100% for the need for good police officers and procedures doesn’t keep me from wanting people held accountable.
It is a tough job. It might feel thankless. Supporting the police or the military doesn’t mean we don’t want to ensure they do right and own up to mistakes.
All professions doctors, teachers, coaches you name it will support the group in the face of a lot criticism.
We need people within law enforcement to stand up For what is right.
Honestly I think the police did. All across the country we saw the establishment denounce the death of George Floyd.
Now there is suspicion that charges would not be filed against all 4 without video evidence and the protests.
But the law moved swiftly and accurately to charge all four guys. That is progress. These officers screwed up and were quickly dealt with.
I'm not questioning whether cops are good people or not, and I am not going to be the person that decides what the criteria is for saying who is a good person. My father-in-law is a retired Chicago police sergeant, an ex-Marine and an attorney. He is a loving father, grandfather, husband and has always been kind and respectful to me and my family. From any outsiders perspective, he's a good man. I respect and appreciate the great qualities he possesses. He's also a horrific racist. Those qualities can coexist.Originally Posted by Crazy4Blue
What I AM saying is that good people can perform their jobs poorly or have other issues that are root causes for larger problems. My father-in-law will be the first to admit that there is a culture among cops to protect one another. You don't snitch. So while so many cops may do things by the book and perceive to be "good cops", if they participate in the culture to protect one another, willingly or not, they are complicit in the actions of the few bad apples. I don't know how you can separate that as so many are asking us to do. The law doesn't separate. It says you don't actually have to commit THE crime to be guilty of another crime, which is why we all applaud the arrest and charges of the other 4 officers.
I will say, though, it warms my heart to see so many cops take a knee, comfort and console protesters and show compassion and empathy. It slightly offsets the horrible images of the murders, the beatings of the press and peaceful protesters that I have seen video after video in the past week. I am also warmed by the local law enforcement leaders and mayors have recommitted themselves to implementing the policies of the Task Force on 21st Century Policing that Trump so proudly abandoned.
There is an excellent article on 538 today that I can reference in various conversations circulating on this board recently, but I will highlight one thing that is so important:
'The police are more male and white than the country as a whole'.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-and-policing/
Finally, I'm not disagreeing with you that black, white, cops are fundamentally good people (although as mentioned, what is that criteria?), but if that is true, then why are people of color disproportionately target and feel the greater wrath of justice?
That is completely erroneous. There are calls from the radical left to abolish the police, defund the police, etc., the protests are littered with signs proclaiming this objective. If you do not realize this is going on you need to call into question your sources for news and information.
https://www.motherjones.com/crime-ju...-george-floyd/
https://www.themarshallproject.org/r...lice-abolition
There is no question that there needs to be reform. There have been too many instances where needless restraint for prolonged periods has resulted in death. There are too many instances of lost lives of innocent people when no knock warrants have been used.
The current push by some to abolish police would have a devastating effect and lead to anarchy, which is the goal.
https://www.wkyt.com/content/news/Le...571014991.html
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
This is a huge issue for me. Joe Citizen is sound asleep, then awakened by the sound of someone forcing their way into Joe Citizen’s home. If I am Joe Citizen I’m not thinking it’s the police, but someone out to harm my family, so I grab a weapon and act to defend my family.That policy also states that uniformed officers must continually announce that they are police once they are inside. Louisville police have said they identified themselves, but Taylor’s neighbors said they never heard anything like that the night she was killed.
Because that segment of the population commits more crime than the averages say it should. Census estimates to date by race:
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...e/US/IPE120218
FBI crime stats by year...
2017
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-43
2018
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-43
2019 is still only a partial report and I can’t find the complete one. Someone may know how to get it, but I don’t.
Our conversations on the matter are fruitless and uninformed without the input of our Black friends being represented. We do not know the extent of their experiences nor do we see things from their perspective. That's because most racial interactions by far are not news worthy and are more often privately expressed.
On the other hand the overwhelming majority naturally and conveniently (and in many instances willingly) overlook the minority. That's because they subconsciously are comfortable with the support the (supposed) majority affords them.
We tend to puff up our opinions of things we have limited knowledge of by agreeing to pick our preferred arguments. Useless.
We all have many Black friends and I would suggest we either invite them, or else agree that none of us really understand the issue fully. because honestly....we don't. We understand parts of it and ignore what we haven't experienced.
I personally test my opinions by asking myself if they are suitable for all the folks of color I know. And for the fine young Black men who have represented the team and sport I love to follow. They are the young men and women who have shown what they are made of by how they represent the university and us. I find it impossible to dismiss their views on this matter, and we all know exactly what those views are.
Common sense then should tell us it's time to listen and not preach contempt and disregard for their opinions.
So, if our opinions would not be well received by them, then it almost assures that either "we" are overlooking something important, "they" are doing so, or something else I cannot fathom.
Its never too late for whomever, to come to the light however. Only God knows all our hearts.
The best we can do is realize the problem needs addressing one way or the other..and agree to work towards a mutually beneficial end that assures liberty and justice for all equally under the law. And neither Red, Yellow, Black, or White folks can or should address it unilaterally.
And don't take this wrong but, generally speaking the only other alternative is to condone and ignore racism.
Last edited by kingcat; 06-04-2020 at 11:01 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
Oh now I get tired of hearing that, life is tough on everyone period!
Each person no matter the color or race has the same opportunity to get themselves out of a tough spot.
In general, your last statement is blatantly false. Sorry.
The rich have an advantage...thats why we all would like to be rich.
If you or I were lost in Harlem after midnight...well lets just say a local has a distinct advantage over us..
Neither do I believe a White man would have been murdered in broad daylight in Minnesota by those cops.
Thing is, the percentage of bad people is the same no matter the color of their skin, whatever that percentage may be.
A certain percentage of Whites are racist or just bad eggs in general
And a similar percentage of Black's are the same.
And so on..
So, one can safely assume that with an obvious majority there is in arguably a disproportionate amount of racism aimed at the distinct minority. Unless one believes one group is morally superior to the other.
Given that fact, and the fact that our Constitution demands each individual be afforded equal rights by law, it is then our responsibility to see that the law is entirely balanced against such events as we have witnessed happening with the proper checks and balances.
I feel we are making good head way by showing a willingness to prosecute and hold accountable those in law enforcement who have often gone unchecked. And in doing so eventually making the job of law enforcement easier for the many heroic professionals out on the street.
How to accomplish all that and assure all the bad eggs are rendered powerless is certainly up for debate. That we must try is not.
Last edited by kingcat; 06-05-2020 at 12:31 AM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
And again I disagree with them not having equal opportunities.
Maybe statements like that enable some.
Being rich has zero to do with color or race.
Just seems like an excuse to me.
Agree with much of the above Kingcat. I’m not black and can’t relate to that struggle. My daughter and I talked about this yesterday. She attends the Citadel in South Carolina for school. There is a segment of that schools population that feels women shouldn’t be on that campus and she feels that when it comes up there. I told her that is a similar feeling that blacks feel when white racism exists.
There all good and bad people across all spectrums of life.
The video of a 75 year old white guy being knocked down is a incredibly strong image. On a good note, it. SHow’s police can be abusive to all Americans.
And I stand by the comment that every individual guides his/her life to achieve their fullest abilities.
Do I know how their lives are no but they do not know mine either.
Just today on the news there was a little girl maybe 6 protesting now do you think she fully understands or is doing what her parents told her. Racism can be taught and trained without individuals knowing or ever feeling any racist behavior which in my mind is just complete anger and dislike.
I promise black to white racism is just as strong as white to black.
An interesting discussion was on the news last night with an African-American professor at NKU. He spoke on the number of these incidents being low overall, and lower than expected when considering the percentages of violent crime committed by race.In general, your last statement is blatantly false. Sorry.
The rich have an advantage...thats why we all would like to be rich.
If you or I were lost in Harlem after midnight...well lets just say a local has a distinct advantage over us..
Neither do I believe a White man would have been murdered in broad daylight in Minnesota by those cops.
Thing is, the percentage of bad people is the same no matter the color of their skin, whatever that percentage may be.
A certain percentage of Whites are racist or just bad eggs in general
And a similar percentage of Black's are the same.
And so on..
So, one can safely assume that with an obvious majority there is in arguably a disproportionate amount of racism aimed at the distinct minority. Unless one believes one group is morally superior to the other.
Given that fact, and the fact that our Constitution demands each individual be afforded equal rights by law, it is then our responsibility to see that the law is entirely balanced against such events as we have witnessed happening with the proper checks and balances.
I feel we are making good head way by showing a willingness to prosecute and hold accountable those in law enforcement who have often gone unchecked. And in doing so eventually making the job of law enforcement easier for the many heroic professionals out on the street.
How to accomplish all that and assure all the bad eggs are rendered powerless is certainly up for debate. That we must try is not.
Anyone that thinks these types of incidents do not happen to white people need to view this video of Tony Timpa being taken into custody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-E_i8Q5G0
Two things that disturbed me about the video. First, was the force used to shove the man. He was shoved much harder than necessary if the goal was to create distance, and didn’t need shoved at all if the desire was to get him moving in the opposite direction. Second, aid should have been given after he fell, especially given the fact that bleeding from the ear is indicates a possible head injury.
What we are seeing is all too many instances of excessive force by police.
It is an impossible job in many ways. But we have regular condemnation of police behavior by civilian authority but the actions happen again and again.
This isn’t just bad apples.
Exactly
Part of it is a numbers game. A lot of these officers in urban areas see multiple confrontations daily, adrenaline is going to be jacked up. From a percentage view as a police officer you are far more likely to end up dead at the hands of a citizen than to have an unarmed citizen killed by you. Most deaths, by a large percentage, come when perps are armed.
I get that. Something we need to take into consideration when we discuss police abuse
Most of these protesters are not armed. Police are not outnumbered. I even understand the police in NY that ran through the protesters.
You cannot surround a vehicle and throw things. If you do those inside need to drive away.
Tough for all parties.
Police and the bad actors are heavily outnumbered by those protesting, which is how Antifa, the anarchists, etc. like it. The bad actors use the legitimate protestors as cover and incite violence. From Saturday to Tuesday there were 114 law enforcement officers injured in Washington DC, most injuries were incurred through the throwing of bricks, frozen water bottles, etc.
I think we are just talking about two different things. You and I have the opportunity to apply for membership in the most exclusive clubs in the country..but as for me at least that opportunity would be only a formality and not reflective of reality.
Not the best example I admit.
Last edited by kingcat; 06-05-2020 at 11:51 AM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
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