Gun question

[KeithKSR]

we are not in boulder so 15 rounds is what our max is. FMK make a decent gun? What about Taurus? Of course I know that Smith/Wesson, Beretta, Springfield and Sig Saur are all quality. Are several that work for us by those manufactures. Does Glock have a model that maxes are 15 rounds. If so, I can't find one.

The Glock 19 magazine is 15 rounds. Tough to go wrong with a Glock, Smith & Wesson, Sig, even the Taurus G3, G2c, G2s have been getting good reviews. CZ P10C is another good one. The Walter Creed has a 15 round magazine, but they are getting harder to find as I believe they have been discontinued.

[CitizenBBN]

First on caliber (I know it's decided, but it's funny). The joke is you don't want to carry a 22 for defense b/c in a bad situation there's a chance you'll forget yourself and pull out your weapon. Then there's a chance you might actually point it at someone. Then you may even lose your mind and shoot it, and if you hit him you'll REALLY piss him off.


Re the mag size, many if not most guns will have aftermarket mags that go over the normal mag size, Glock is for sure in that category, but usually the regulation isn't on the gun but on the mag size you can carry with it. If the mag limitation is 15 rounds and it's written to the mag and not specific makes/models of guns (which would be dumb but not unlikely given the blue state bureaucrats we're discussing) then you just need to find mags for the gun that meet the requirement.

IIRC the Glock 19 is 15 rounds (theoretically plus one chambered).

Re the price, it's not about whether the gun will go bang. it's about how reliably the gun will go bang in an accurate way, and never go bang when you don't want it to go bang. that's a little high for those guns but not way off, maybe $30-$50.

You want a top brand, well made piece, and also (very important) one that fits your hand and feels comfortable. So among the pool of Glock, Sig, S&W, Ruger, etc. you want to pick the one that is best for your hand and grip and feel, and at that point dropping an extra 100-200 is well worth it to get the gun you like most.

Ideally go to a range that rents them and try 3 or 4. There are subtle differences that make a lot of difference to the shooter. It's amazing just how much difference there is in a .1" difference in grip circumference for example.

Anyway, that's my thought on that. 9mm is solid, though for your circumstance I might think 40 S&W. A step up in stopping power without any appreciable difference in recoil. But 9mm is ubiquitous. Personally I'm a huge fan of 45 b/c it's more knock down power but actually a little less over penetration and travel, so you hopefully won't shoot into the next house over.

[CitizenBBN]

OK, your FFL question. I assume this is a gun show in Florida?

First thing is that most gun shows will have dealers AND individuals. The "gun show loophole" as it is wrongly called (or at least inaccurately) is that private individuals can get a table at a gun show and buy and sell as individuals. As a non-dealer sale they typically are not required to do any paperwork, etc. It's a private sale just like two guys selling privately.

So if you buy there from a dealer you'll do paperwork just like you were at his gun store. If you buy from an individual it depends on state laws on private sales.

I did a quick google. Looks like Florida has a 3 day waiting period so not sure how that works at a show. Second, it looks like counties etc. can pass laws to require background checks etc. on private transfers. Honestly that doesn't work very easy as FEDERAL law restricts access to the NICS system to dealers, so not sure how states that do that get around it. I assume they have a dealer there who does it.

Regardless the gun show people will know the rules for sure.

If you buy on the internet then yes the gun would be sent to a local FFL and you would go there to pick it up. They will charge a fee to do the paperwork, usually $15-$25 flat fee depending on your area.

[Darrell KSR]

Most handguns have California compliant versions with the 10 round magazine. Another option is a pistol that uses a single stack magazine, like this Glock: https://www.rkguns.com/glock-g48-9mm...ua4850201.html

Or this Taurus https://www.rkguns.com/taurus-g2s-gr...1-g2s931g.html

Or the Smith and Wesson Shield EZ that has become popular with ladies, because it is easier to operate the slide: https://www.rkguns.com/smith-wesson-...ety-12437.html

I was thinking about recommending my Glock 36, a single stack .45 caliber, 6+1, too. But if he is only limited to 15-round magazines, and likes the 9mm, there are more options.

[CitizenBBN]

The Glock 19 magazine is 15 rounds. Tough to go wrong with a Glock, Smith & Wesson, Sig, even the Taurus G3, G2c, G2s have been getting good reviews. CZ P10C is another good one. The Walter Creed has a 15 round magazine, but they are getting harder to find as I believe they have been discontinued.

Beat me to it Keith. Glock 19 should comply, but a lot of mid-sized guns are at 15+1, and lots more have lower capacity mags for compliance.

Can add to that list Ruger, Springfield, HK, several others. So many high quality guns out there these days.

[CitizenBBN]

I was thinking about recommending my Glock 36, a single stack .45 caliber, 6+1, too. But if he is only limited to 15-round magazines, and likes the 9mm, there are more options.

Absolutely forcing me to a caliber that's not "big" but knowing Doc may run into an 800 pound friend out there, I'd go 45 ACP. Still very manageable to shoot and more "knock down" kinetic force.

[KeithKSR]

Absolutely forcing me to a caliber that's not "big" but knowing Doc may run into an 800 pound friend out there, I'd go 45 ACP. Still very manageable to shoot and more "knock down" kinetic force.

Little black bears like we see in Tennessee, and even in my area in Kentucky nowadays, I’d feel comfortable with a 9mm. In Grizzly country I’d want the .45 ACP.

[Darrell KSR]

The Glock 19 magazine is 15 rounds. Tough to go wrong with a Glock, Smith & Wesson, Sig, even the Taurus G3, G2c, G2s have been getting good reviews. CZ P10C is another good one. The Walter Creed has a 15 round magazine, but they are getting harder to find as I believe they have been discontinued.

Creed mag is 16.

[dan_bgblue]

Doc, Taurus makes quality weapons. There may be things about one or the other that you do not like, but the quality is there regardless.

[Darrell KSR]

Well, not only am I giving useless information, but it's bad info now, too. Just got a CDNN Sports email with a Walther Creed and Smith & Wesson SDVE 9mm sale advertised, and not only is the Creed useless because of the 16-round mags it uses, but the price I quoted was way off. The sales price is $339.99. Dan had a better price he posted.

(The S&W SDVE also uses 16rd mags, and it is $349.99.)

[KeithKSR]

Well, not only am I giving useless information, but it's bad info now, too. Just got a CDNN Sports email with a Walther Creed and Smith & Wesson SDVE 9mm sale advertised, and not only is the Creed useless because of the 16-round mags it uses, but the price I quoted was way off. The sales price is $339.99. Dan had a better price he posted.

(The S&W SDVE also uses 16rd mags, and it is $349.99.)

The demand has driven prices up. The Creed and S&W SDVE have been a lot lower than those prices.

[CitizenBBN]

Honestly you guys can keep the SDVE. It's reliable and a good solid gun but I'd pay a bit more and get something different. Just doesn't fit me well.

If I had my absolute choice I'd go Sig P220, S&W M&P or the HK USP. Those are all 45 ACP. Given my absolute choice and no size issues I get the HK USP with suppressor.

I really like the Sig feel and the way it cycles. The HK is surprisingly light IMO and the M&P is an outstanding gun with a tight feel that just feels quality.

[Doc]

What we are down to. I'm thinking the SW. Only concern is its too big for my wife (there is a joke here but I'm not going there). Going to go a range and shoot all three to see which we prefer.

Taurus G2S 9mm 7rd 3.25" Pistol 1-G2S931
Rating: 100%
Special Price $179.93

Glock 48 9mm 10rd 4.17" Pistol, Black PA4850201
$448.00

Smith & Wesson M&P Shield .40 S&W Subcompact Pistol 180020
Rating: 98%
18
$319.99

[dan_bgblue]

Hand cannons

[dan_bgblue]

9mm vs ,40 cal

[Darrell KSR]

What we are down to. I'm thinking the SW. Only concern is its too big for my wife (there is a joke here but I'm not going there). Going to go a range and shoot all three to see which we prefer.

Taurus G2S 9mm 7rd 3.25" Pistol 1-G2S931
Rating: 100%
Special Price $179.93

Glock 48 9mm 10rd 4.17" Pistol, Black PA4850201
$448.00

Smith & Wesson M&P Shield .40 S&W Subcompact Pistol 180020
Rating: 98%
18
$319.99

Not going to comment on the difference between Taurus-Glock-S&W, but a couple of general comments from me that may or may not be helpful. Probably not. So ignore if you want.

First, as long as you're comfortable with the caliber, you're doing exactly what you should do. Shoot them and see which one(s) you are most comfortable with. You'll see some experts say that you'll get used to a particular weapon, but for my money, that requires you committing to regular practice with it. I bet not 10% of the people who say they will regularly practice actually do. So I say make sure you're comfortable from the beginning.

Having said that, if you are shooting with one of those weapons and you (or Mrs. Doc) finds the recoil/muzzle flip not to your liking, it might not be because of the caliber of the weapon, but the size of the weapon. You've got some subcompact/compact weapons there, which is fine, and ideally suited for concealed carry--inside your waist band, on the hip kinda thing. But you MIGHT look at some others, if your need is at "at home" defense weapon, and/or carrying it out in the woods, as opposed to carrying it on your hip for dinner in a restaurant in town. If you opt for a standard size pistol, same caliber, you may find it is more comfortable to shoot--larger is actually easier to shoot than smaller, in this instance. They handle the recoil better, since it is absorbed throughout the larger frame, do not have as pronounced of a muzzle blast, etc. And they are generally more accurate because the barrel length is usually longer.

Anyway...good luck (and feel free to ignore this).

[Darrell KSR]

Hand cannons

9mm vs ,40 cal

Those are both pretty good articles, but the one thing I found when I was looking for myself years ago...you can find advocates of just about anything. I read so many articles contradicting each other, saw so many ballistics tests, watched so many competing videos, it was mind-boggling.

For my money, I prefer .45 ACP over 40 caliber or 9mm, and I prefer 9mm over 40 caliber. I like the knockdown power of a .45 the best. But as the article you posted said, improvements in 9mm ballistics make me like it over the (also sometimes-harder-to-find) .40 caliber. When the FBI and other law enforcement agencies starting going back to 9mm, that told me that times had changed.

[dan_bgblue]

I used to own and shoot the Army surplus M1911 45 cal and loved it. If I still had it, I would not be looking for a new sidearm. I would disregard the want for a pistol I can conceal carry and just put the M1911 on my hip and go to town. That pistol fit my hand and grip perfectly and the recoil was not bad.

I would not have hesitated to have taken it deer, hog, bear, coyote, wolf, bigfoot, hunting any day of the week and twice on the weekends.

[CitizenBBN]

Dan, surely we can find you some milspec that suits for the older 45 ball ammo.

I strongly prefer the 45 myself. I carry a 357 but will likely switch to one of the subcompact 45s as they are really nice.

I'd go 45 acp or at least shoot the +p 9mm and see how it feels.

[dan_bgblue]

30 min youtube on the history of the Colt 1911. There have been about 14 various models

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgOicEVA4u8

[CitizenBBN]

Had to re-read, you're talking about a milspec 1911, not the milspec ball ammo?

Go get a good service 1911. Can never go wrong with one. Pricey though, they're well collected. I sold a first year for over $4K a while back.

[dan_bgblue]

I do not expect to find one that I want to pay for. I have been searching the internet for several years and #2,500.00 and up to $5,000.00 is the price range for all the 1911 and even the 1911A1s Some off brand 1911s can be b ought in the $1,200.00 range at times

[KeithKSR]

Those are both pretty good articles, but the one thing I found when I was looking for myself years ago...you can find advocates of just about anything. I read so many articles contradicting each other, saw so many ballistics tests, watched so many competing videos, it was mind-boggling.

For my money, I prefer .45 ACP over 40 caliber or 9mm, and I prefer 9mm over 40 caliber. I like the knockdown power of a .45 the best. But as the article you posted said, improvements in 9mm ballistics make me like it over the (also sometimes-harder-to-find) .40 caliber. When the FBI and other law enforcement agencies starting going back to 9mm, that told me that times had changed.

A major reason for my selling my .45 and going with the 9mm is ammo cost to target practice with. Down the road I’d like to get another 1911, likely in .45 acp. The 1911 is very customizable, so even a $400-$800 milspec version can provide a platform for a nice shooter.

[KeithKSR]

I do not expect to find one that I want to pay for. I have been searching the internet for several years and #2,500.00 and up to $5,000.00 is the price range for all the 1911 and even the 1911A1s Some off brand 1911s can be b ought in the $1,200.00 range at times

Springfield 1911 pricing starts out around $500. Kimber starts pricing at around $800 for their basic 1911. I never had any issues with my Rock Island, they start out in the $400-$500 range these days. These will all be 1911a1 versions.

[dan_bgblue]

Thanks Keith. I need to do some updated research.

[CitizenBBN]

Springfield makes a really fine 1911. I like the 1911, just not in love with the capacity of the design for a full size gun.

[Doc]

Going with the Glock 19. Son in law can get the police supplier for $387.00. Will do the CCW once we have it.

The SW shield I shot today was a subcompact....too small. Might be too small for my wife. Ideal for her hand would be a compact but that is too small for me so going full sized, and glock seems the best

[Darrell KSR]

Glock 19 has been a staple for many years and you absolutely made a good choice there. And a great price.

[KeithKSR]

Going with the Glock 19. Son in law can get the police supplier for $387.00. Will do the CCW once we have it.

The SW shield I shot today was a subcompact....too small. Might be too small for my wife. Ideal for her hand would be a compact but that is too small for me so going full sized, and glock seems the best

My wife likes the full size better than the smaller pistols. She really liked the Taurus G3, it felt really good in her hand, so that’s what I got her.

That’s a really good price on the Glock 19, usually they run $499. Pandemic pricing was higher. It’s hard to go wrong with a Glock 19.

[Doc]

Surpised how much I enjoyed the range yesterday. It was a full "try a few guns/find a right gun/learn how to shoot this gun" thing. Also some good time with my son in law. He brought 3 guns.... a glock, an FN and and something else (all 9mm) plus his AK 47. I guess I get why some folks like shooting. Not that I am antigun (as most know) but I am and will continue to be pro gun regulation in as much as I am pro regulation for cigarettes and alcohol. Am looking forward to getting "my piece" and heading back with my wife and SIL to get proficient. Will do the CCW even though have no intention of toting a pistol on my hip or on my calf, but clearly having a permit is just easier, especially when going across state lined due to dual state residency