Gun question

[KeithKSR]

My .44 Redhawk loaded with big bullets is a comforting backcountry gun. I have some reloads that make it go "SPRANG". I guess I could get one of those marlin big loop carbines in that caliber but I've been liking carrying my little hammerless Kimber in .357 for snakes and etc. So I guess I'll wait till the .357 shows up in the marlin too. Altho I could reload some softer .44 specials. It's a fine home self defense and short enough to hang out in the truck too.

As for gun laws, Sheesh I fill out the paper and they sell me the gun. I have avoided getting a medical marijuana card because they can show up in the search, or at least I've heard. Or I buy one from the paper or a friend or whatever. I am going to get my Arizona, etc concealed carry this year. We all need goals, especially retired people.

Marlin has an 1894 with an enlarged loop. The loop isn’t as big as some, but is larger than the originals. https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever...odel-1894-csbl

Rossi sells one in an 1892 variant that has been somewhat of a tactical flair to it that has the big loop. https://rossiusa.com/firearms/lever-...s-triple-black

Henry has their take on the big loop lever action .357 also. https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/henry-big-boy-steel/

[bigsky]

Yep Keith, you are right, Marlin is the one I want. I Get those 2 confused—Marlin/Savage. Henry steelie might be okay. People buy those Henrys on a lark and then never use them so maybe I find one used.

[Doc]

Now my wife wants to get a concealed carry permit. New job involves going after terrorists so might not be a bad idea.

[KeithKSR]

Yep Keith, you are right, Marlin is the one I want. I Get those 2 confused—Marlin/Savage. Henry steelie might be okay. People buy those Henrys on a lark and then never use them so maybe I find one used.

Here is a nice video on the Henry X in .357/.38. This one is running a suppressor, which is really sweet for cutting down on the noise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5gjoDqThm8

[KeithKSR]

Now my wife wants to get a concealed carry permit. New job involves going after terrorists so might not be a bad idea.

Might not be a bad idea for both of you.

[CGWildcat]

OK, it's been too long for me to deal with guns unfortunately.

I want to get a pump 12 gauge, short barrel, pistol grip that handles 00 and/or slugs. Home defense type.

I have a sig (I think) 357 pistol, ruger 22, and 30.06 pump, plus a 12 gauge side by side double barrel (made in China), that I'd love to get rid of. Never even shot it.

[KeithKSR]

OK, it's been too long for me to deal with guns unfortunately.

I want to get a pump 12 gauge, short barrel, pistol grip that handles 00 and/or slugs. Home defense type.

I have a sig (I think) 357 pistol, ruger 22, and 30.06 pump, plus a 12 gauge side by side double barrel (made in China), that I'd love to get rid of. Never even shot it.

Mossberg and Remington both sell versions of what you are wanting, pistol grips with 14 inch barrels.

https://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/

https://www.remington.com/other-prod...del-870-tac-14

I’ve had both Mossberg and Remington shotguns. The Mossbergs have a smoother action and the Remington’s can be prone to having ejector issues, so I’d go with Mossberg, but both are dependable.

[dan_bgblue]

Mossberg is the way to go for a pump action

[Darrell KSR]

Buddy of mine bought a Mossberg Shockwave some years ago. Took it out of the box this week.

I like the looks of it a lot. How is the recoil on something like that?

[dan_bgblue]

They make a low recoil version of the 12 gauge shell that wont kick the gun out of your hand. I have a friend that is one of those ultra proud macho guys and he bought one and he bought a case of 3" double aught buck shells to go with it. He still has all of those shells minus one.

[KeithKSR]

Buddy of mine bought a Mossberg Shockwave some years ago. Took it out of the box this week.

I like the looks of it a lot. How is the recoil on something like that?

Recoil is going to dependent a lot on what size load is being shot. If I were shooting it I’d probably avoid three inch shells.

[KeithKSR]

They make a low recoil version of the 12 gauge shell that wont kick the gun out of your hand. I have a friend that is one of those ultra proud macho guys and he bought one and he bought a case of 3" double aught buck shells to go with it. He still has all of those shells minus one.

The Mossberg’s are known to run the minishells very well. Here is an example: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2506162922

[Darrell KSR]

They make a low recoil version of the 12 gauge shell that wont kick the gun out of your hand. I have a friend that is one of those ultra proud macho guys and he bought one and he bought a case of 3" double aught buck shells to go with it. He still has all of those shells minus one.

Recoil is going to dependent a lot on what size load is being shot. If I were shooting it I’d probably avoid three inch shells.

The Mossberg’s are known to run the minishells very well. Here is an example: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2506162922

You know me; I'm not really a gun person. I have never heard of minishells. Sounds like a great idea for something like this, though. I'm going to relay that link to my buddy. He shoots probably less than I do and I doubt he knows what those are. Heck, maybe he does, and everybody does except me. Wouldn't be the first time I'd be out of the loop.

[Doc]

So we got serious today...went to a local gun shop/range and inquired. we are leaning towards a 9mm rather than a 22 cal as the way to go. They showed us a Glock and a Smith Wesson. I thought they were over priced (the glock 19 was $550 and the SW $580). No problem paying that if worth it but considering what our purpose is, we need something that goes BANG and scares people away. Looking on the net, one that intrigued me was this Keltec P17 (22 cal). Apparently it is so good that nobody can keep them in stock. However I saw one site that had "CO legal---NO", and we plan on having it in that state for our cabin.

There is a gun show this weekend here locally so we might go to that and see if anything floats our boat.

[dan_bgblue]

Hickock45 and our Darrell both like this Walther Creed 9mm. Much better price than you posted above.

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/walt...364210655.html

I am still waiting for the Palmetto States Armory PSA9 to hit the market for $300.00

[Darrell KSR]

I'm not the guy to ask, since we have much better people here with worlds more knowledge, but you do not want a 22 if you want self protection.

In my view, a 9mm is the minimum. Glock 19 is one of the most popular hand guns in history.

Glocks are ugly, but they go bang when you pull the trigger. Unless it's an anomaly, every time. Mine has never failed to fire no matter the conditions or ammunition. That alone is worth the price to me. Unless you want a revolver. And yes, plenty of other companies are reliable, too. But some with good names and good workmanship won't necessarily be the most reliable. Buddy of mine has, literally, hundreds of guns. Former member of a state police type organization, and now a wealthy collector. He buys Sig Sauers and other big name weapons with 4 digit price tags and sends them back for work. Trigger replacement. Filing down of parts because it doesn't eject properly. (I'm not picking on Sig, just the first name that came to my mind).

On the caliber, 22s are great target pistols. They can kill. They can also not kill. They can also not slow a person down. No way, no how, do you want that for protection. Way too many stories of a 22 doing nothing more than making somebody mad.

When I had a real and substantial threat, I leaned on several people here for advice as well as CatintheFort (Andre) who all knew their stuff. Andre spent a lot of time with me, and I selected a 45 caliber that I could carry. You'll get different opinions on caliber, but I really don't think you will see much support for a defense weapon with a caliber below 9mm or 38 maybe.

If you have a chance, go to a place like Hoover Tactical here in Birmingham (they aren't rare) with an indoor shooting range, and rent a pistol from them in the caliber and model you are considering, and shoot it. Hoover Tactical rents pistols for $10. Great way to see if the pistol fits your hand, if the recoil on it is bad, or manageable, etc. My 45 seemed like a large caliber and recoil concerned me until I shot it. It was more of a rocking back and forth recoil that didn't disturb follow up shots, rather than a recoil with a muzzle flip where you'd have to find the target again on a 2nd shot.

Anyway, hopefully others will chime in. But my $0.02 is buy a 9mm, not a 22. Or buy both, but don't carry the 22 for self defense.

[Darrell KSR]

Hickock45 and our Darrell both like this Walther Creed 9mm. Much better price than you posted above.

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/walt...364210655.html

I am still waiting for the Palmetto States Armory PSA9 to hit the market for $300.00

I started to mention my Walther Creed. CDDN now has it for $299, but it recently was $269.99 and may go back to that price. Very reliable. Uglier than my Glock (ok, they both are ugly), but shoots well, very accurate.

I wouldn't hesitate to use it for self defense. In fact, I carry it occasionally with two extra mags (both provided) if I feel like it's a weird situation where I may need near 50 shots. (16+1, and two 16-round mags).

[Darrell KSR]

Hickock45 and our Darrell both like this Walther Creed 9mm. Much better price than you posted above.

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/walt...364210655.html

I am still waiting for the Palmetto States Armory PSA9 to hit the market for $300.00

That Palmetto looks very nice.

[dan_bgblue]

A side note to Darrell's comments above, which I wholly agree with, is if you just want something to go bang, get a disposable lighter and some firecrackers.

[Doc]

I'm not the guy to ask, since we have much better people here with worlds more knowledge, but you do not want a 22 if you want self protection.

In my view, a 9mm is the minimum. Glock 19 is one of the most popular hand guns in history.

Glocks are ugly, but they go bang when you pull the trigger. Unless it's an anomaly, every time. Mine has never failed to fire no matter the conditions or ammunition. That alone is worth the price to me. Unless you want a revolver. And yes, plenty of other companies are reliable, too. But some with good names and good workmanship won't necessarily be the most reliable. Buddy of mine has, literally, hundreds of guns. Former member of a state police type organization, and now a wealthy collector. He buys Sig Sauers and other big name weapons with 4 digit price tags and sends them back for work. Trigger replacement. Filing down of parts because it doesn't eject properly. (I'm not picking on Sig, just the first name that came to my mind).

On the caliber, 22s are great target pistols. They can kill. They can also not kill. They can also not slow a person down. No way, no how, do you want that for protection. Way too many stories of a 22 doing nothing more than making somebody mad.

When I had a real and substantial threat, I leaned on several people here for advice as well as CatintheFort (Andre) who all knew their stuff. Andre spent a lot of time with me, and I selected a 45 caliber that I could carry. You'll get different opinions on caliber, but I really don't think you will see much support for a defense weapon with a caliber below 9mm or 38 maybe.

If you have a chance, go to a place like Hoover Tactical here in Birmingham (they aren't rare) with an indoor shooting range, and rent a pistol from them in the caliber and model you are considering, and shoot it. Hoover Tactical rents pistols for $10. Great way to see if the pistol fits your hand, if the recoil on it is bad, or manageable, etc. My 45 seemed like a large caliber and recoil concerned me until I shot it. It was more of a rocking back and forth recoil that didn't disturb follow up shots, rather than a recoil with a muzzle flip where you'd have to find the target again on a 2nd shot.

Anyway, hopefully others will chime in. But my $0.02 is buy a 9mm, not a 22. Or buy both, but don't carry the 22 for self defense.

I texted my son in law who is a police officer. He agreed, 22 is for killing varmints. 9 mm might not kill a bear but hope it would scare it away. One question for Chuck... I assume any purchased on the internet has to go to a FFL (fed lisc dealer). I assume the dealer also takes a cut, but if I get at the gun show, I can just purchase it from them as they will be FLL, correct? Still have the waiting period, background, etc.... but no middleman.

[Doc]

If you have a chance, go to a place like Hoover Tactical here in Birmingham (they aren't rare) with an indoor shooting range, and rent a pistol from them in the caliber and model you are considering, and shoot it. Hoover Tactical rents pistols for $10. Great way to see if the pistol fits your hand, if the recoil on it is bad, or manageable, etc. My 45 seemed like a large caliber and recoil concerned me until I shot it. It was more of a rocking back and forth recoil that didn't disturb follow up shots, rather than a recoil with a muzzle flip where you'd have to find the target again on a 2nd shot.

Anyway, hopefully others will chime in. But my $0.02 is buy a 9mm, not a 22. Or buy both, but don't carry the 22 for self defense.

That is what we did today (link) but we did not shoot. Just researching.....

[Darrell KSR]

Well, crud. Doc, it looks like you can't have the Creed because the magazine capacity is greater than 15. In fact, Boulder seems to have passed their own ordinance banning mags with more than 10 rounds.

That Kel Tec should be ok. 22 rimfire weapons (uhh, per Wikipedia - I know, dangerous for me to rely on that) are exempt.

But I would caution you again, the 22 is a plinking pistol, shooting tin cans, targets, and maybe a random snake or something.

[Darrell KSR]

That is what we did today (link) but we did not shoot. Just researching.....

Gotcha. Forgot you have a built in expert there too, with your S-I-L. Just ignore my posts. I know, like any other day or topic... Lol

[Doc]

Well, crud. Doc, it looks like you can't have the Creed because the magazine capacity is greater than 15. In fact, Boulder seems to have passed their own ordinance banning mags with more than 10 rounds.

That Kel Tec should be ok. 22 rimfire weapons (uhh, per Wikipedia - I know, dangerous for me to rely on that) are exempt.

But I would caution you again, the 22 is a plinking pistol, shooting tin cans, targets, and maybe a random snake or something.

yeah, keltec is out. not going with a 22. will go 9mm.

So the limiting factor is magazine size. Good to know. +

[dan_bgblue]

Sig, HK, FN, and Taurus all make 9mm semi auto pistols in models that take 10 round magazines. Most on line retailers seem to be sold out of them though.

[KeithKSR]

So we got serious today...went to a local gun shop/range and inquired. we are leaning towards a 9mm rather than a 22 cal as the way to go. They showed us a Glock and a Smith Wesson. I thought they were over priced (the glock 19 was $550 and the SW $580). No problem paying that if worth it but considering what our purpose is, we need something that goes BANG and scares people away. Looking on the net, one that intrigued me was this Keltec P17 (22 cal). Apparently it is so good that nobody can keep them in stock. However I saw one site that had "CO legal---NO", and we plan on having it in that state for our cabin.

There is a gun show this weekend here locally so we might go to that and see if anything floats our boat.

I purchased a Glock 19 Gen 4 a few weeks ago for $499 at Rural King. To be honest for ease of use it doesn’t get much easier than a Glock. Some Keltecs can be a bit finicky about the ammo they eat.

[Doc]

we are not in boulder so 15 rounds is what our max is. FMK make a decent gun? What about Taurus? Of course I know that Smith/Wesson, Beretta, Springfield and Sig Saur are all quality. Are several that work for us by those manufactures. Does Glock have a model that maxes are 15 rounds. If so, I can't find one.

[Doc]

Gotcha. Forgot you have a built in expert there too, with your S-I-L. Just ignore my posts. I know, like any other day or topic... Lol

Nah...I value peoples experience. Tommy can get one thru his department than "gift it" to use, because he is sure we won't go on a rampage (his words). He recommends the glock, which is what he carries, but the magazine size might be an issue.

[KeithKSR]

I texted my son in law who is a police officer. He agreed, 22 is for killing varmints. 9 mm might not kill a bear but hope it would scare it away. One question for Chuck... I assume any purchased on the internet has to go to a FFL (fed lisc dealer). I assume the dealer also takes a cut, but if I get at the gun show, I can just purchase it from them as they will be FLL, correct? Still have the waiting period, background, etc.... but no middleman.

Most FFLs charge $20-$30 for paperwork. Contrary to popular mainstream media gunshows have a lot of FFL dealers at them and they will do the paperwork.

Rural King at rkguns.com will ship any of their guns to local stores and do the paperwork for $12.

BTW, for the price of the Gock 19 you can get two Taurus G3 9mm handguns. I got one for my wife at Rural King for $249 when I got my Glock. She really liked the feel of the grip and it was comfortable for her. The a Taurus G3 is made in Miami.

One note, the smaller subcompact pistols can be harder to shoot, because recoil is greater.

[KeithKSR]

Well, crud. Doc, it looks like you can't have the Creed because the magazine capacity is greater than 15. In fact, Boulder seems to have passed their own ordinance banning mags with more than 10 rounds.

That Kel Tec should be ok. 22 rimfire weapons (uhh, per Wikipedia - I know, dangerous for me to rely on that) are exempt.

But I would caution you again, the 22 is a plinking pistol, shooting tin cans, targets, and maybe a random snake or something.

Most handguns have California compliant versions with the 10 round magazine. Another option is a pistol that uses a single stack magazine, like this Glock: https://www.rkguns.com/glock-g48-9mm...ua4850201.html

Or this Taurus https://www.rkguns.com/taurus-g2s-gr...1-g2s931g.html

Or the Smith and Wesson Shield EZ that has become popular with ladies, because it is easier to operate the slide: https://www.rkguns.com/smith-wesson-...ety-12437.html