Home defense shotgun

[KeithKSR]

Thanks.

I priced them today and was a bit shocked. Back when they were first showing up, in the original box packed in cosmolene, with a bayonet, and a cleaning kit, here in the late 80s or early 90s I could have bought all of them I wanted for 90 bucks apiece and bought 1,000 round ammo cans for 75 dollars. I bought neither and am now a bit sorry I did not.

My sister bought mine for my nephew in the mid 90s for less than a $100. I bought it from him a few years later for $150. I’ve seen them for $300-$350 pretty consistently the last ten years. $350 is probably a decent price for the rifle, they are decent shooters and ammo can still be had for a reasonable price. I found a new synthetic Monte Carlo stock for mine at a gun show for around $40 several years ago and I like it on that format.

I like the 7.62x39 round. It’s a nice round for varmints with enough punch to take down a deer. It’s still cheaper to shoot than my AR. A gun range in a neighboring county sells ARs built for the round for around the $400 price.

[CitizenBBN]

If you're wanting one just let me know Dan. I'm about to sell several.

As Keith said, "Norinco" is an export name the Chinese gave their SKS rifles. the thing is they were actually made at multiple factories with variations in materials and construction. Some receiver housings are milled, some are stamped, etc. There are ways to identify them. Certain factories are considered better than others.

Also there are two barrel lengths, standard and the shorter "paratrooper" model, which has nothing to do with paratroopers. Also there is an SKS-D and a SKS-M both of which were factory made to take AK magazines instead of the built in 10 round SKS mag.

Honestly the Norinco/Chinese/ChiCom rifles are really good, mostly b/c the SKS design, like the AK, was specifically for countries with limited manufacturing and machining to be able to make a still reliable weapon. They did it well.

Above the Chinese versions are the Russians, but also the Yugoslavian, Romanian, and at the top of the list the Albanian guns. the last is as much for collectability as quality as they are just more rare.

My biggest strength is probably with Soviet/Communist weapons. Frankly they were the best margins when I was dealing in them, so I focused on those. Yes when the Chinese hit the market with the SKS they were about $90 in the box. Now they run $400+.

[CitizenBBN]

Oh, as for 7.62 ammo in normal times in bulk it's $.21 per round or less, but now is running near 30c and up. I have a good internet source for spam cans of 700 rounds if that's what you're looking for, but they may be out right now.

[KeithKSR]

Oh, as for 7.62 ammo in normal times in bulk it's $.21 per round or less, but now is running near 30c and up. I have a good internet source for spam cans of 700 rounds if that's what you're looking for, but they may be out right now.

I think I paid like $3.50 or $3.75 for the last 20 round boxes of 7.62x39 I bought. They were Tula or Wolf. That may have been a couple of years ago. Since 2016 most of my ammo purchases have been .223/5.56. I bought a couple of 20 round boxes of .223/5.56 Tula for $3.99/box three weeks ago at Rural King. They currently have .223/5.56 Aguila advertised for $15.99/50 rd box. I wish I had an excuse to make the trip to Rurak ?King to get a couple of boxes, but haven’t made it there. Their sale ends tomorrow. That’s also about what I’ve paid for the 50 round boxes of Remington I have stashed.

[KeithKSR]

My biggest strength is probably with Soviet/Communist weapons. Frankly they were the best margins when I was dealing in them, so I focused on those. Yes when the Chinese hit the market with the SKS they were about $90 in the box. Now they run $400+.

$400 only sounds like a lot for these rifles because of the former Sub $100 price tags. Several years ago my son-in-law borrowed my now late BIL’s 740 Remington Woodmaster to use for deer season. My SKS easily outshot it using some cheap unbranded ammo I had bought for $1.99 a box.

[KentuckyWildcat]

When I checked them late in the winter their New 9 mm was scheduled to debut about now. Like everything else it has been delayed. It is supposed to be a $200 Glock 19 gen 3 clone.

I intend on getting one at some point. Probably the last gun I buy for a while. IIRC it has a rail and threaded barrel option. I want something with a light to carry in the woods at night.

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk

[KentuckyWildcat]

It isn't the cheap stuff for 7.62x39. But I paired the Hornady black with the Palmetto KS47 and love the results. I bought this mainly to coyote hunt. So far the gun is better than I am at calling.

I shot a 3/4 inch group at 100 yards. And my brother just over an inch. Neither of us are great shots.

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk

[KeithKSR]

It isn't the cheap stuff for 7.62x39. But I paired the Hornady black with the Palmetto KS47 and love the results. I bought this mainly to coyote hunt. So far the gun is better than I am at calling.

I shot a 3/4 inch group at 100 yards. And my brother just over an inch. Neither of us are great shots.

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk

You should get plenty of opportunities to nail a coyote. They have gotten thick.

[CitizenBBN]

You don't really need a gun for a coyote. A hammer may suffice as thick as they've become. same for hogs.

[KentuckyWildcat]

I've killed a few over the years, just walking out of the house at the right time with a rifle or just seeing them at night. But have had a guy hunting them the last few years for me, but he has fallen on hard times and sold pretty much everything. So I'm trying to learn how to call them now. That is more difficult than I expected. But now that mating season is over, maybe they will start responding better.

[suncat05]

An injured rabbit call works really well. Also, an injured deer or calf call brings them in too.I
They are very brazen down here in south Florida. I have caught them setting up near my house so that when I walk my dogs they'll have a chance to snatch one of them.
So I never leave home without my gun.

[KeithKSR]

An injured rabbit call works really well. Also, an injured deer or calf call brings them in too.I
They are very brazen down here in south Florida. I have caught them setting up near my house so that when I walk my dogs they'll have a chance to snatch one of them.
So I never leave home without my gun.

We had two small dogs, 10 lb range, that found a deer to chow on in the woods near the house back 6 or 7 years ago. At least I think it was a deer. They’d head over into the woods and come back stuffed. One evening they left and never returned. I’m fairly confident that coyotes got them. They’ll learn routines and know when to strike.

[suncat05]

We had two small dogs, 10 lb range, that found a deer to chow on in the woods near the house back 6 or 7 years ago. At least I think it was a deer. They’d head over into the woods and come back stuffed. One evenin Jig they left and never returned. I’m fairly confident that coyotes got them. They’ll learn routines and know when to strike.

Yes, coyotes are very intelligent. And their eyesight is excellent. Just overall a very wiley adversary (no pun intended to any "Road Runner" cartoon fans, of which I am one!). But they are true predators, so you have to respect them as such.

[bigsky]

Mossbergs lower lines seem flimsy to me. I do like the Rem 870. I particularly like the 870 marine. But it is An expensive stainless steel tank.

[KeithKSR]

Mossbergs lower lines seem flimsy to me. I do like the Rem 870. I particularly like the 870 marine. But it is An expensive stainless steel tank.

If I go Mossberg I’ll probably go 590. I’ve owned both the Mossberg 500 and Remington 870; the Mossberg to me is probably the superior of the two. I like that the 870 can easily have the magazine tube extended, but the Mossberg has a much smoother action and has the better extraction/ejection system. The 870 ejectors tend to be prone to failure. Both are good pump action guns, overall, and overall are reliable. I inherited my late FIL’s Springfield 67, which is a rebadged Savage/Stevens, it isn’t as good as either the 500 or the 870.

The H&R Pardner Pump is the Maverick equivalent to the 870, except that the Maverick is assembled in the US and the Pardner is imported.

[bigsky]

590 is the right Mossberg.

[KeithKSR]

590 is the right Mossberg.

The 590A1 is even beefier than the 590. It is the military version of the 590, with heavier barrel, heat shroud, and other parts that are built for more extreme conditions.

[Catfan73]

https://revolverguy.com/1986-fbi-mia...ary/#more-7942

Interesting article on the gunfight 34 years ago that led to law enforcement switching away from revolvers to semi automatic handguns.

[KeithKSR]

https://revolverguy.com/1986-fbi-mia...ary/#more-7942

Interesting article on the gunfight 34 years ago that led to law enforcement switching away from revolvers to semi automatic handguns.

It has always puzzled me why law enforcement was so slow to accept semiautomatic handguns.

[CitizenBBN]

It has always puzzled me why law enforcement was so slow to accept semiautomatic handguns.

The biggest legitimate reason is that revolvers are inherently more reliable. Modern pistols are excellent, but revolvers are still more reliable.

Revolvers cannot stovepipe or jam on the load, there's no mag spring to weaken, no way to accidentally hit the mag eject and let it drop loose, etc.

it's now down to a very small percentage difference due to improvements in pistols, but 30+ years ago that difference was bigger.

Second, revolvers are safer in general for accidental discharges. Now, if you have a hammer revolver and you cock it back then all bets are off, you are now equal to a chambered pistol, but otherwise the long full draw on a revolver makes it nearly impossible to discharge accidentally, which is why to this day revolvers have no safety switches.

Many carry pistols have gone with this same ideology and have long double action type draws for the same reason.

Third, the savings in width from pistols isn't as valuable if you carry with a holster.


Now, that all being said, the US military moved to the 1911 back in, er, 1911 (army first, the others in a couple of years), and never looked back, and they love reliability and safety too.

IMO the reason for that difference is that police weren't about shooting the guy coming over the hill. Prior to the 1970s/1980s I doubt many police departments wanted to think in terms of firepower and being able to engage an "enemy" in a firefight. That wasn't their role or goal.

After all, the main reason to use a pistol is on average they hold more rounds. That's useful for an army, but may not be the right mentality for law enforcement.

That's my .02 on why they were slow to change. Doesn't help that there have been any number of pistols made, even sold in large numbers, that are not as reliable as they should be.

[KeithKSR]

CBBN, I think the a big factor was ammo. Law enforcement seemed to have avoided the .45 round, because it was too large. They avoided the 9mm because they thought it was too wimpy. LEOs were very much married to the .38 and .357 rounds. What was odd here is that the military adopted both the .45 and then the 9mm in a span of time when LEOs were primarily sticking to the .38/.357 platform.

One reason I think ammo was a big factor is timing. The move to semiautomatics by law enforcement didn’t begin in earnest until the development of the .40 S&W round. When the .40 S&W was introduced it seemed like LEOs went to it in a big way and in a hurry. The .40 was also a happy middle ground for LEOs between the .45 and the 9 mm.

There is a lot to like about the .40, but the one place the 9mm trumps it is in ammo pricing. $12 for a box of 50 rounds for range ammo is a lot more appealing to the masses.

[CitizenBBN]

Fair point. And there were attempts at a .38 equivalent rimless cartridge, notably the 38 ACP and its more popular successor the 38 super, but none of them caught on.

I'd still argue that it was, up to a point, a lack of need. Need changes people's mind and clearly there wasn't a lot of desire to have high capacity or we would have seen more switching sooner.

that's only up to the 1970s though bc I think that's when the turning point was coming. You saw more carrying speed loads, and that to me was a sign they were looking for more firepower.

[KeithKSR]

I'd still argue that it was, up to a point, a lack of need. Need changes people's mind and clearly there wasn't a lot of desire to have high capacity or we would have seen more switching sooner.

that's only up to the 1970s though bc I think that's when the turning point was coming. You saw more carrying speed loads, and that to me was a sign they were looking for more firepower.

I don’t know if it was a need for more firepower or a desire. At any rate semiautomatic pistols really seemed to take off with the double stack magazine .40 cal.

[dan_bgblue]

Just in case you were thinking of purchasing one of these, I had sent an email to Palmetto State Armory earlier last week asking about their 9mm Glock clone and received this response in my mail this morning.

We do not have any authorized dealers in KY. In addition, the DAGR has not been released for public sale and we have regrettably had to push back the release date for the time being due to the Covid-19 crisis. At this time we have not set a new date for release.

Thanks for your inquiry,

[dan_bgblue]

I am also tracking resupply of inventory of the Charles Daly 12 Ga semi auto at Sportsmans Warehouse. I will post when I am notified of new stocking of this weapon. I wish it did not have to be shipped from Turkey. It may not be coming from there, but I do know that some if not all of their consumer arms are manufactured there.

[KentuckyWildcat]

Just in case you were thinking of purchasing one of these, I had sent an email to Palmetto State Armory earlier last week asking about their 9mm Glock clone and received this response in my mail this morning.

We do not have any authorized dealers in KY. In addition, the DAGR has not been released for public sale and we have regrettably had to push back the release date for the time being due to the Covid-19 crisis. At this time we have not set a new date for release.

Thanks for your inquiry,

Thanks Dan. It is certainly on my list of wants. But thankfully not anytime soon. Hopefully it can be a Christmas present.

I need to get two ARs finished, and maybe buy two scopes first. At least one scope.

[CitizenBBN]

Just in case you were thinking of purchasing one of these, I had sent an email to Palmetto State Armory earlier last week asking about their 9mm Glock clone and received this response in my mail this morning.

We do not have any authorized dealers in KY. In addition, the DAGR has not been released for public sale and we have regrettably had to push back the release date for the time being due to the Covid-19 crisis. At this time we have not set a new date for release.

Thanks for your inquiry,

Dan, when you hear they are shipping let me know and I can probably get one as a dealer for you. I can go through national distributors, I have accounts with 3-4 of them.

[dan_bgblue]

That would be terrific. Thanks for offering to do that.

[KeithKSR]

I am also tracking resupply of inventory of the Charles Daly 12 Ga semi auto at Sportsmans Warehouse. I will post when I am notified of new stocking of this weapon. I wish it did not have to be shipped from Turkey. It may not be coming from there, but I do know that some if not all of their consumer arms are manufactured there.

I’m also supposed to get an email when the Charles Daly is back on stock.

The price of the S&W M&P 2.0 compact is back on stock at Buds. I took a screenshot of it at $427 on the 9th. I wanted to wait until I got my taxes finished before going ahead with the purchase and did them last week. On Thursday I went back on Buds to make sure it was still in stock at their Lexington store and the price jumped back up to $529. Evidently they jacked up their prices when the stimulus checks hit bank accounts and spurred another buying spree. The odd thing is the price on the M&P Shield the wife wants has remained unchanged.

Lots of first time firearms purchasers have made purchases since the pandemic began.

[KeithKSR]

Just in case you were thinking of purchasing one of these, I had sent an email to Palmetto State Armory earlier last week asking about their 9mm Glock clone and received this response in my mail this morning.

We do not have any authorized dealers in KY. In addition, the DAGR has not been released for public sale and we have regrettably had to push back the release date for the time being due to the Covid-19 crisis. At this time we have not set a new date for release.

Thanks for your inquiry,

Thanks for the info, Dan. Those may not be ready until sometime this summer. Initially they were to hit the market this month, then I saw an updated May 15th date after the pandemic hit. I’ve seen two different potential prices. One was $199, the other was $299. If it is close to the Gen 3 Glock 19 that is a good price, the Gen 3 was $499 before the pandemic and now isn’t to be found anywhere.