Home defense shotgun

[KeithKSR]

I’m leaning toward adding a home defense, aka security, shotgun to the arsenal. My options are to build my own, or to purchase one already assembled.

I can purchase either a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 used for the $150-$200 range, a Remington Wingmaster usually runs a little more. I can score a security barrel for either for around a $100. I already have an ATI pistol grip stock and matching forearm that I bought that will fit either Remington or Mossberg. Cool added tactical stuff can be added an item at a time as I want. Initial investment would be around $300.

Looking around I am seeing security shotguns with either 18.5” or 20” barrels at some pretty good prices. The Savage/Stevens 320, which as near as I can tell is a ChiCom Winchester 1300, runs $230-$270. The Remington 870 and either Mossberg 500 or 590 seem to be running in the $360-$380 range. The Mossberg Maverick 88 checks in at $199. Stoeger and Winchester also have offerings that are going to fall in the Maverick-Savage/Stevens price range, I assume both of those are also going to be Foreign manufactured. Edit: the Winchester SXP is made in Turkey.

The advantage to a finished home defense shotgun is that it is obviously finished out of the box, most come with higher capacity tube mags generally somewhere in the +2 range of a field grade shotgun.

The foreign made guns are getting pretty good reviews and seem every bit as good as the reviews for their new American made counterparts. The disadvantage to the ChiComs is that aftermarket goodies aren’t as plentiful and extras purchased may need to be adapted to make them work.

The big advantage to buying a used field gun and doing my own build is that I can pick and choose what specific components I want to add. There isn’t a cost savings by building that is significant, in fact it could end up being more. A second advantage is that it may be easier to find a used field gun over the next few months than it will be to find the off the shelf security shotguns. The COVID19 pandemic has apparently caused a run on any kind of defense firearms and stock will need to be replenished. I could run into the same issue when looking for a used field gun, I haven’t checked out the usual pawn shops yet. A third advantage would be that it can double as an extra field shotgun if I want to use it that way.

Thoughts?

[Darrell KSR]

Interested in following what you end up with, Keith. I'm more interested in ones you might buy since I'm not the do-it-yourself guy, and would rather have it made for me, even if not as flexible as a DIY version would obviously be. But appreciate you throwing out the options there for both.

And what do you think about the Mossberg Shockwave? Similar to what you are proposing to do, totally different?

[dan_bgblue]

Mossberg 930 SPX Security 18 1/2 inch barrel and pistol grip, chambered for 3 inch shells is a bad boy. It is priced a good bit above your price point, but is a semi auto instead of a pump. Nothing wrong with a pump but I can empty the 7 shot magazine out of the 930 in at most 1/2 the time it takes to do the same out of the 500 series. 500 series are great guns if you want the pump and when I was buying I wanted the SA instead.

My magazine stays loaded with an alternate load of double X then a slug then a double X again.

[kingcat]

I've been considering a low priced scatter gun purchase for home security myself.

My stringent requirements require something loud to act as a deterrent, and not likely to explode in my face.

[KeithKSR]

And what do you think about the Mossberg Shockwave? Similar to what you are proposing to do, totally different?

The Shockwave is a Mossberg 590 with a 14” barrel and a pistol grip instead of a stock. I really wanted something shoulder fired, so hadn’t really considered that option. The Mossberg 590 currently is the shotgun of choice for the military in its M590A1 version. Hickock45 on YouTube has a nice review of the Shockwave. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxECBq-f68s

[KeithKSR]

Mossberg 930 SPX Security 18 1/2 inch barrel and pistol grip, chambered for 3 inch shells is a bad boy. It is priced a good bit above your price point, but is a semi auto instead of a pump. Nothing wrong with a pump but I can empty the 7 shot magazine out of the 930 in at most 1/2 the time it takes to do the same out of the 500 series. 500 series are great guns if you want the pump and when I was buying I wanted the SA instead.

My magazine stays loaded with an alternate load of double X then a slug then a double X again.

I’ve considered a semiautomatic as a security shotgun. The $700 price tag is one drawback for the 930. Charles Daly does have a semiautomatic I would consider and it is in the price range I would like to get one in. Now, if I ran onto the right deal on a good semiautomatic my current Remington 870 field gun would become the sacrificial home defense shotgun.

[CitizenBBN]

I think I sold my last one but I may pick one up: Winchester 1897. Series E (has a tube ejector versus having to cycle the rounds to unload).

Why? I'ts dog reliable as a pump, and it can be slam fired. You pump it the first time and after that if you hold down the trigger every time it pumps it fires. I'd cut down the barrel to minimum length for the law and the tube.

I also sold off a Saiga 12 Ga AK-47. I may get one again, they aren't stupid expensive. They also have a knock off in 410 that I like as long as I can get a 10 round mag for it. 410 self defense loads are the bomb. not as massive as the 12 ga with 00 buck, but very controllable and plenty enough to do the job.

If I was staying traditional I'm thinking pump, and you can't go wrong with the 500 or the 870. Both very reliable and lots of customization options. 500 is a bit easier to break down IMO.

Frankly I'd go with a 20ga for home defense if it was a 500 or 870. Plenty of power with defense loads and a little less over penetration and more control.

Also consider if you shoot a gun inside your house at night you'll be blind and deaf immediately. Personally I'd rather be deafened by a 410 than a 12 ga in a closed space.

Honestly for all that it's why I like the Taurus Judge and S&W Governor. 5 rounds so you're about even with a shotgun, and the 410 with defense loads can do a lot, and you have all the freedom of movement of a pistol.

[kingcat]

I hunted with a 1930's 410 iver Johnson handed down from my great grandfather growing up. My nephew has it now.

It was known as shooting as true as any 410 from the day. A great squirrel gun and effective bird shot butt burner for hides hiding in tall trees.

My Dad loaned to a good friend in the nineties who let his son use it on his first rabbit hunt. As he was climbing a fence he stuck the barrel in the soft dirt....later, well, you can guess. Now its a very short barrel.

[KeithKSR]

I think I sold my last one but I may pick one up: Winchester 1897. Series E (has a tube ejector versus having to cycle the rounds to unload).

Why? I'ts dog reliable as a pump, and it can be slam fired. You pump it the first time and after that if you hold down the trigger every time it pumps it fires. I'd cut down the barrel to minimum length for the law and the tube.

I also sold off a Saiga 12 Ga AK-47. I may get one again, they aren't stupid expensive. They also have a knock off in 410 that I like as long as I can get a 10 round mag for it. 410 self defense loads are the bomb. not as massive as the 12 ga with 00 buck, but very controllable and plenty enough to do the job.

If I was staying traditional I'm thinking pump, and you can't go wrong with the 500 or the 870. Both very reliable and lots of customization options. 500 is a bit easier to break down IMO.

Frankly I'd go with a 20ga for home defense if it was a 500 or 870. Plenty of power with defense loads and a little less over penetration and more control.

Also consider if you shoot a gun inside your house at night you'll be blind and deaf immediately. Personally I'd rather be deafened by a 410 than a 12 ga in a closed space.

Honestly for all that it's why I like the Taurus Judge and S&W Governor. 5 rounds so you're about even with a shotgun, and the 410 with defense loads can do a lot, and you have all the freedom of movement of a pistol.

The biggest problem with .410 is ammo cost and availability. I didn’t realize availability was an issue until I bought my daughter one of those Rossi .22/.410 dual barrel outfits. In my area shells ar $15+ a box and there is no variety.

I wouldn’t mind going 20 gauge, but security barrels are nearly impossible to source. That means finding a 20 gauge without a vented rib so it can be cut down. It’s hard to find these without vent ribs these days.

[blueboss]

The first line of defense is an alarm system. If that goes off then...

I keep a .38 close by with alternate rounds of hollow points and wad cutters.

The next closest line of defense is an 870 Remington 20ga. Field gun with the plug out that I can shoot from the hip pretty well.


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[KeithKSR]

The first line of defense is an alarm system. If that goes off then...

I keep a .38 close by with alternate rounds of hollow points and wad cutters.

The next closest line of defense is an 870 Remington 20ga. Field gun with the plug out that I can shoot from the hip pretty well.


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I really don’t need the home defense shotgun as much as want one. I’ve got plenty of firepower, but my current shotguns are primarily full choke and I want something a bit shorter that can also shoot slugs.

[Darrell KSR]

Honestly for all that it's why I like the Taurus Judge and S&W Governor. 5 rounds so you're about even with a shotgun, and the 410 with defense loads can do a lot, and you have all the freedom of movement of a pistol.

Those have a lot of merit, as we've discussed too. I like the 410 defense loads as well.

[Darrell KSR]

The Shockwave is a Mossberg 590 with a 14” barrel and a pistol grip instead of a stock. I really wanted something shoulder fired, so hadn’t really considered that option. The Mossberg 590 currently is the shotgun of choice for the military in its M590A1 version. Hickock45 on YouTube has a nice review of the Shockwave. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxECBq-f68s

Love Hickok 45. Bought a Walther Creed at least 50% because of an outstanding video he had on it.

Edit... By the way, he's not wrong on the Creed. Great quality, great feel, fantastic price.

[KeithKSR]

Love Hickok 45. Bought a Walther Creed at least 50% because of an outstanding video he had on it.

Edit... By the way, he's not wrong on the Creed. Great quality, great feel, fantastic price.

He’s knowledgeable and entertaining, plus he seems pretty straightforward on his assessments.

[CitizenBBN]

I tried to build his shooting range in my downtown backyard. Boy were my neighbors pissed. The ones that lived at least.

[KeithKSR]

I tried to build his shooting range in my downtown backyard. Boy were my neighbors pissed. The ones that lived at least.

His range is enviable, to say the least. I’d just like to have his endless ammo supply.

[suncat05]

Not a fan of that type of shotgun. Don't like the grip at all, and really do not like the hand strap under the slide grip.
But that is just me. My preference.
I prefer a standard stock on my shotgun. It allows for better control, no matter how you shoot. I also really like a semi-auto shotgun, a lot. But using one of those requires a little more training and practice to be able to handle it with proficiency.
I have .410's for my wife & daughter for the house, and a 12 gauge shotgun, Remington 870 riot gun for myself.
Can't go wrong with a shotgun for home defense. Period.

[KeithKSR]

Not a fan of that type of shotgun. Don't like the grip at all, and really do not like the hand strap under the slide grip.
But that is just me. My preference.
I prefer a standard stock on my shotgun. It allows for better control, no matter how you shoot. I also really like a semi-auto shotgun, a lot. But using one of those requires a little more training and practice to be able to handle it with proficiency.
I have .410's for my wife & daughter for the house, and a 12 gauge shotgun, Remington 870 riot gun for myself.
Can't go wrong with a shotgun for home defense. Period.

That’s the issues I have with both the Shockwave and Remington’s version, the Tac-14.

Charles Daly does sell a version of a home defense shotgun in semiautomatic that has a really good price on it. They can’t ship now, but this is something I’d consider when the Covid19 stuff is over and they are back to business as usual.

https://www.charlesdaly.com/product.php?id=602

[suncat05]

At that price, very nice. I think I would go with a mag extension though. From 5 to 7-8 rounds available is preferable.

[kingcat]

I do have a Savage 340B and some ammo here my son used for deer when he was a hunter.

[KeithKSR]

At that price, very nice. I think I would go with a mag extension though. From 5 to 7-8 rounds available is preferable.

It looks like a factory +1 is available. https://www.charlesdaly.com/accessory.php?id=121

[dan_bgblue]

That’s the issues I have with both the Shockwave and Remington’s version, the Tac-14.

Charles Daly does sell a version of a home defense shotgun in semiautomatic that has a really good price on it. They can’t ship now, but this is something I’d consider when the Covid19 stuff is over and they are back to business as usual.

https://www.charlesdaly.com/product.php?id=602

Buds has them for the same price but they are sold out

[KeithKSR]

Buds has them for the same price but they are sold out

Sportsman’s Warehouse sells them for $249.99, but they are sold out as well.

I sold one of my handguns to my daughter and her husband and put back the money for a S&W M&P 2.0 compact In 9 mm and hadn’t had a chance to go to Lexington to pick one up at Bud’s. Last weekend I went back on their website and prices had jumped $75 and they were sold out. They did have them for around $450 a few weeks ago and the newer price was about $525. I figure at $525 I’d just go with a Gen 4 Glock 19, well those were sold out as well. I knew there was a big run on TP, I didn’t realize they had a run on just about any defensive firearm.

[KentuckyWildcat]

Sportsman’s Warehouse sells them for $249.99, but they are sold out as well.

I sold one of my handguns to my daughter and her husband and put back the money for a S&W M&P 2.0 compact In 9 mm and hadn’t had a chance to go to Lexington to pick one up at Bud’s. Last weekend I went back on their website and prices had jumped $75 and they were sold out. They did have them for around $450 a few weeks ago and the newer price was about $525. I figure at $525 I’d just go with a Gen 4 Glock 19, well those were sold out as well. I knew there was a big run on TP, I didn’t realize they had a run on just about any defensive firearm.

Palmetto is coming out with a 9mm. Supposed to be a nice gun at a good price.

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[KeithKSR]

Palmetto is coming out with a 9mm. Supposed to be a nice gun at a good price.

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When I checked them late in the winter their New 9 mm was scheduled to debut about now. Like everything else it has been delayed. It is supposed to be a $200 Glock 19 gen 3 clone.

[KeithKSR]

I thought I’d post this here, Hickock45 on the weapons a common person might have had at the time of the 1918 pandemic. It fits this thread because one of the choices was a Model 12 Winchester pump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uawniD-Af9o

[CitizenBBN]

The Model 12 is a great gun as well. It was the new model to replace the 1897. It's an outstanding gun, much better parts quality than modern guns as most companies (notably Winchester) stopped using forged and milled parts in 1964. That's why the pre-64 Winchester 30/30s command a premium as well.

There are a number of design differences between the two guns, but the biggest functional change is the internal hammer. But it's the external hammer that lets the 1897 be slam fired.

Honestly the Model 12 is a better built gun simply b/c the technology to make and machine better parts etc. had improved, but the 1897 is still highly reliable and a bit more tolerant of dirt etc., and the slam firing makes it unique among shotgun options. (Almost unique, I think there are 1-2 others out there that can)

And if you can't tell, I do tend to like the older guns. On average they are better made, you just have to know enough or know someone who knows enough to assess condition.

My SHTF guns are Russian, esp. the SKS, b/c they are nearly indestructible and easy to maintain. Go to shotguns are older models or something really simple like the Mossberg 500 (parts are ubiquitous and much more tolerant than the technically superior but more finicky Browning designs), and my absolute backup handguns are revolvers again b/c they are stupidly reliable, will work with any ammo for their caliber without complaint, and are easy to work on and repair. S&W revolvers are so common the parts are readily available.

Anyway, that's my .02, which is worth .02. KISS principle. At 3am with someone coming in my house I want dead dog reliable and simple. That's going to be simple pump shotguns and revolvers. Now for firepower I might go with a semiauto pistol but it's going to be one that is absolutely proven.

OT but I want to try the new Sig the military is adopting. That looks extremely promising as a very reliable SA.

[dan_bgblue]

CBBN, what is the difference, if any, in the TULA type and the Norinco Russian SKS weapons?

Thanks

[KeithKSR]

CBBN, what is the difference, if any, in the TULA type and the Norinco Russian SKS weapons?

Thanks

The Norinco is a Chinese SKS. The Tula factory produced SKS rifles in Russia.

My SKS is a Norinco and is rock solid. The Russian rifles are supposed to be better.

[dan_bgblue]

Thanks.

I priced them today and was a bit shocked. Back when they were first showing up, in the original box packed in cosmolene, with a bayonet, and a cleaning kit, here in the late 80s or early 90s I could have bought all of them I wanted for 90 bucks apiece and bought 1,000 round ammo cans for 75 dollars. I bought neither and am now a bit sorry I did not.