PSA: Biden still a brainless oaf today

[CitizenBBN]

https://www.foxnews.com/media/joe-bi...rompter-issues

Seriously, this guy is not ready to be dog catcher, much less POTUS. Dems should write in for Kloubuchar the same way the GOP needed to write in for Carly Fiorina.

[ukpumacat]

So, if Klobuchar was the nominee you would vote for her over Trump?

[CitizenBBN]

So, if Klobuchar was the nominee you would vote for her over Trump?

Depending on her position on the judiciary I'd certainly consider it. Honestly the entire Dem field is so left this cycle it would be hard.

I'd vote for Biden except he's shifted hard to the left but mostly b/c I have known for more than 30 years that he's actually a complete moron.

I"m not making that up b/c he's running. If people want I'll hook them up with people I was in debate with back in the day. He was one of the most singularly stupid people on the Foreign Service Committee for the entire time I was reading Senate hearings. He is completely handled by his staff and as soon as he's off-script he says something stupid.

Those aren't slips of the tongue. A few here and there would be, but he has 100s. His advice on self defense with gun control? Get a double barrel shotgun and shoot through the door. His first advice was for his wife to discharge a shotgun in the air from the 2nd floor porch of his Delaware home, which is actually illegal in Delaware.

But on policy before this election cycle Biden was "old school" Democrat, which is to say very moderate. Give me that with a guy who isn't actually just a two dimensional mental cutout and yes you'd have my attention.

That being said, what I do in fact like about Trump is that he wants to break the machine. He wants to drain the swamp, be the spanner wrench in the works, and DC desperately needs to be broken.

I just wish it had been someone with more common sense and less bombast and foolishness who was so intent on doing it and managed to get there to try.

It makes Trump a mixed bag. His goals are the right goals (insofar as we're talking about fixing government), his judiciary appointments have been excellent, but he comes with a load of baggage. Almost everyone who voted for him that I know would rather he ditch the baggage, but when the alternative is Biden or Sanders or Warren etc. they don't feel they have a lot of choices.

Trump is an idiot in many ways, but when he talks it is absolutely him talking, for better or worse. Biden is actually just dumb, and when he talks it's either his rehearsed response from his staff or a gaffe if he has to totally wing it.

Tough choice. Guy who says everything he's ever done is the greatest thing ever even when it's obviously not even good, or a guy who seems to be losing his mental faculties and didn't have a lot to spare when he started.

[CitizenBBN]

So, if Klobuchar was the nominee you would vote for her over Trump?

And the short answer to that question isn't really whether I'd vote for her or not, but that she's obviously just one of several far better candidates to have running the country. Just as there were better options with the GOP in 2016.

Somehow both parties seem to be electing from the wingnut division of the candidate pool.

[Catonahottinroof]

I would have given Tulsi a look had the Dems been forthright enough to let things play out. Unfortunately, the establishment picked a tired, old senile candidate. The status quo....

[CitizenBBN]

I would have given Tulsi a look had the Dems been forthright enough to let things play out. Unfortunately, the establishment picked a tired, old senile candidate. The status quo....

Gabbard would be my first choice of the main candidates. She was well out of the running but she's the most moderate in the field, and anyone who Hillary hates must not be much of an insider.

Sanders scared the Democratic machine and elites so much they made sure to get in one of their own. Had they picked one with some sense maybe even that flies, but Biden has long been nothing more than a hollow politician run by his staff.

[Doc]

So, if Klobuchar was the nominee you would vote for her over Trump?

and if Rand Paul was the current president, can I assume you would vote for the GOP over Biden?

I find it intriguing that you would even consider Biden when you have made it clear your feelings on lying. I mean this guy is noted for being caught plagiarizing. What some call gaffes, others call lies. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...rk_142526.html

[ukpumacat]

And the short answer to that question isn't really whether I'd vote for her or not, but that she's obviously just one of several far better candidates to have running the country. Just as there were better options with the GOP in 2016.

Somehow both parties seem to be electing from the wingnut division of the candidate pool.

Biden isn’t a wing nut but I do agree he wasn’t the best candidate.
But he’s a moderate and black people love him. So he’s the nominee.

[ukpumacat]

and if Rand Paul was the current president, can I assume you would vote for the GOP over Biden?

I find it intriguing that you would even consider Biden when you have made it clear your feelings on lying. I mean this guy is noted for being caught plagiarizing. What some call gaffes, others call lies. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...rk_142526.html

I didn’t vote for Biden.

My choice in the General will be between Biden and Trump. Not gonna be difficult.

[Doc]

I would have given Tulsi a look had the Dems been forthright enough to let things play out. Unfortunately, the establishment picked a tired, old senile candidate. The status quo....

Me as well. A much more palpable candidate. Still, my pocketbook rules my vote. Since I consider pretty much all politicians as snakes, liars and thieves, I can't really say any is more honest than the next. It is sort of like trying to say who is the best serial killer: John Wayne Gacy, Charles Manson or David Berkowitz. Only politician I like, who I think is honest, is Trey Gowdy, but he is out of politics at this time.

[Doc]

I didn’t vote for Biden.

My choice in the General will be between Biden and Trump. Not gonna be difficult.

It's just I have not seen any criticism of Joe's lying but plenty of it towards Trump. Just wondering if you have the same level of contempt for the fabrications he spins as you do for Trumps.

[ukpumacat]

I would have given Tulsi a look had the Dems been forthright enough to let things play out. Unfortunately, the establishment picked a tired, old senile candidate. The status quo....

Oh boy.

Apparently you need to read up a bit more on her. She’s far more progressive than Biden, endorsed Bernie 4 years ago (which is one of the reasons Clinton hates her) and was endorsed by Bernie.
She’s not a “moderate”. She’s different on some issues (foreign policy being the main one) but she’s far more “socialistic” than Biden or Clinton or Pete or Amy.
She wasn’t held back by the establishment. She was a candidate without an audience. Not progressive enough to get Bernie or Warren votes and too progressive to get the votes of the moderates.
She lost. People didn’t like her.

[ukpumacat]

It's just I have not seen any criticism of Joe's lying but plenty of it towards Trump. Just wondering if you have the same level of contempt for the fabrications he spins as you do for Trumps.

I treat anyone who lies the same.

I doubt we can have a thread about every single person who lies.
Trump is the President. So people notice and comment.
If Biden becomes President and lies as much as Trump, I have no doubt he will get just as much attention (he will from me).

[CitizenBBN]

Biden isn’t a wing nut but I do agree he wasn’t the best candidate.
But he’s a moderate and black people love him. So he’s the nominee.

The guy who stopped desegregation busing is somehow an African American hero?

Uh, no. The "black vote" votes for the party candidate. Turnout in South Carolina was strong, but other states haven't seen that turnout. He's the mainstream candidate, they voted for him, but as soon as the primary gloves come off and they find out he was the whitest white guy in the Senate and representing a very very white rich state to stop busing, I'm betting some rethink that view.

They loved Bill Clinton. They just vote for Joe Biden.

And he's not crazy. he's just a moron, and one who may be losing his faculties. Blowing up at people isn't a good sign, and he's done it multiple times, so much so the party is trying to limit him interacting off script. Like today, until the teleprompter fails.

he was a moderate. Now he's a liberal. By the general he'll be a moderate again though. lol. The question is, will he even notice the changes?

[CitizenBBN]

Oh boy.

Apparently you need to read up a bit more on her. She’s far more progressive than Biden, endorsed Bernie 4 years ago (which is one of the reasons Clinton hates her) and was endorsed by Bernie.
She’s not a “moderate”. She’s different on some issues (foreign policy being the main one) but she’s far more “socialistic” than Biden or Clinton or Pete or Amy.
She wasn’t held back by the establishment. She was a candidate without an audience. Not progressive enough to get Bernie or Warren votes and too progressive to get the votes of the moderates.
She lost. People didn’t like her.

Honestly I was thinking of Gabbard when I posted. Hawaii, not Wisconsin. Not that she's much better.

The whole field was crazy liberal this cycle. Primaries always veer from the middle, but this one is one for the record books. I'm not in love with any Dem candidate as I'm a libertarian and no Democrat would ever imagine a world where people mind their own business and we use market forces to govern instead of bureaucrats, but of all of them Biden was one of my least favorites b/c a) I think he's an idiot, and b) he's the ultimate establishment candidate.

So do I like Gabbard? Of course not. She's for gun bans, fracking bans, etc. By Dem standards this year that's sadly "moderate". But is she better than Biden? Uh, yes. Because Biden is a moron.

Personally I would prefer the Democrats had gangpressed Joe Lieberman into service. Him I would vote for in a second over Trump if you're looking for a Democrat I find reasonable if not from my own heart.

[ukpumacat]

Honestly I was thinking of Gabbard when I posted. Hawaii, not Wisconsin. Not that she's much better.

The whole field was crazy liberal this cycle. Primaries always veer from the middle, but this one is one for the record books. I'm not in love with any Dem candidate as I'm a libertarian and no Democrat would ever imagine a world where people mind their own business and we use market forces to govern instead of bureaucrats, but of all of them Biden was one of my least favorites b/c a) I think he's an idiot, and b) he's the ultimate establishment candidate.

So do I like Gabbard? Of course not. She's for gun bans, fracking bans, etc. By Dem standards this year that's sadly "moderate". But is she better than Biden? Uh, yes. Because Biden is a moron.

Personally I would prefer the Democrats had gangpressed Joe Lieberman into service. Him I would vote for in a second over Trump if you're looking for a Democrat I find reasonable if not from my own heart.

Yes, I meant Hawaii Gabbard as well. Everything I posted was about her. She is a progressive and far more left than Biden, Pete, Amy, Booker, etc.

[CitizenBBN]

Yes, I meant Hawaii Gabbard as well. Everything I posted was about her. She is a progressive and far more left than Biden, Pete, Amy, Booker, etc.

Oh she's left, but farther left than Booker or Pete I might dispute. Biden yes, depending on which Biden you want to go with on any given day.

The obvious truth is the Democratic party has been run over by the far left the same way Trump's populism drove out the old guard GOP. There's no home for a Joe Lieberman in the modern party. Bill Clinton would be excoriated if he were running in this era.

So no there won't be any great options out of this pool for me, or anyone else who thinks individual liberty is still why this nation was founded.

But as I said Biden has two serious flaws beyond the issues. First he's the ultimate insider party politics guy, and left or right the theme for this era is Populism and throwing out the elites, which I agree with wholeheartedly. Second he's mentally questionable, both in intellect and capacity.

so if we had a Democrat only election with only that field to choose from yes I'd choose several other candidates over him even though I dislike all of their policy stands. Esp. since Biden has shifted so far left in the primary on so many things.

[ukpumacat]

the theme for this era is Populism and throwing out the elites, which I agree with wholeheartedly.

I don't think it is anymore. It was in 2016. We shall see.

[Catonahottinroof]

At the end of the day there needs to be a definitive choice. Biden isn’t far removed from what Hillary was/is and the choice will be nearly the same as 2016.
Economic collapse may bring Biden...I don’t know and neither does anyone else. Bernie would have been definitive, Tulsi would have been definitive....Yang would have been definitive....definitely different from what is being pushed upon the Democratic voter.
Trump played that card on the republicans in 2016. Not sure he’s done enough to distance himself from them. Time will tell.....

[ukpumacat]

At the end of the day there needs to be a definitive choice. Biden isn’t far removed from what Hillary was/is and the choice will be nearly the same as 2016.

Good point but four key differences:

1. People have now seen Trump in action. Some will like it. Some will not. But there is actual evidence now.
2. Hillary won the popular vote. So if Biden can do that its a good start. He is more popular in blue collar states than she was.
3. Hillary was unlikable. Biden is well liked.
4. A lot of people didn't vote. And people believed the polls and didn't think Trump could win. That will not happen this time. Voters on both sides will turn out in record numbers.

[CitizenBBN]

I don't think it is anymore. It was in 2016. We shall see.

That itch hasn't been scratched. The people know this country was sold out by the elites. Right or left, we all know it. We disagree on how to fix it, but we all know it.

[CitizenBBN]

Francisco Franco, still dead today....

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...nate-confusion

So now he was a "professor". Hasn't ever apparently taught any classes or really been "on campus", and got the years wrong by as much as a decade depending on how you interpret it, but otherwise...

Honestly I wish he'd hold it together a few more months. If he continues this badly the convention will turn to Cuomo.

Seriously. I think there is a growing chance the delegates bail on both of the remaining candidates. Boy wouldn't that be interesting.

[dan_bgblue]

Hillary still wants to be President.

[CitizenBBN]

Hillary still wants to be President.

They may turn to her, but I think Cuomo will be their latest savior if Biden falls apart.

But he would have to utterly fall apart in extraordinary fashion. Otherwise the delegates are picking someone who didn't even get a vote. It's a horribly undemocratic look, despite the fact that it's technically possible just as with the electoral college.

It will be Biden, but as of today this crisis is only hurting him. Trump may be saying some really dumb things in this process but overall he's seen as strong and in charge and Biden is coming off as a limp noodle. It's utterly sidelined his campaign in the media, but he's also just coming off as dottering, which highlights his known issues with odd comments and gaffes.

The idea of him holding press conferences on this like Trump and the governors is silly, it looks forced and, worst for him, weak.

that's not to say Trump wins this thing. We're SOOOOOO far from the election and in this climate things will change on a dime, but this is actually hurting him and helping Trump right now.

And with this spending spree people could come out of this in good economic shape. If the virus can be put back in the bottle even somewhat people may feel pretty good about how this was handled by the end.

the key will be meds to treat people and a vaccine. If I'm Trump I'm standing on people's throats pushing for a medical solution in time to beat the November election. that's ugly, but in terms of the politics of it that's a huge issue for the outcome. Even if not fully implemented, if people think we're coming out of this crisis by then they'll credit those in power with the win. Incumbents will have a good November.

[Catonahottinroof]

That is a sure fire way to get the Bernie Bros to NOT vote democratic and vote Bernie as a write in candidate

They may turn to her, but I think Cuomo will be their latest savior if Biden falls apart.

But he would have to utterly fall apart in extraordinary fashion. Otherwise the delegates are picking someone who didn't even get a vote. It's a horribly undemocratic look, despite the fact that it's technically possible just as with the electoral college.

It will be Biden, but as of today this crisis is only hurting him. Trump may be saying some really dumb things in this process but overall he's seen as strong and in charge and Biden is coming off as a limp noodle. It's utterly sidelined his campaign in the media, but he's also just coming off as dottering, which highlights his known issues with odd comments and gaffes.

The idea of him holding press conferences on this like Trump and the governors is silly, it looks forced and, worst for him, weak.

that's not to say Trump wins this thing. We're SOOOOOO far from the election and in this climate things will change on a dime, but this is actually hurting him and helping Trump right now.

And with this spending spree people could come out of this in good economic shape. If the virus can be put back in the bottle even somewhat people may feel pretty good about how this was handled by the end.

the key will be meds to treat people and a vaccine. If I'm Trump I'm standing on people's throats pushing for a medical solution in time to beat the November election. that's ugly, but in terms of the politics of it that's a huge issue for the outcome. Even if not fully implemented, if people think we're coming out of this crisis by then they'll credit those in power with the win. Incumbents will have a good November.

[ukpumacat]

It will be Biden, but as of today this crisis is only hurting him. Trump may be saying some really dumb things in this process but overall he's seen as strong and in charge and Biden is coming off as a limp noodle. It's utterly sidelined his campaign in the media, but he's also just coming off as dottering, which highlights his known issues with odd comments and gaffes.

The idea of him holding press conferences on this like Trump and the governors is silly, it looks forced and, worst for him, weak.

that's not to say Trump wins this thing. We're SOOOOOO far from the election and in this climate things will change on a dime, but this is actually hurting him and helping Trump right now.

And with this spending spree people could come out of this in good economic shape. If the virus can be put back in the bottle even somewhat people may feel pretty good about how this was handled by the end.

the key will be meds to treat people and a vaccine. If I'm Trump I'm standing on people's throats pushing for a medical solution in time to beat the November election. that's ugly, but in terms of the politics of it that's a huge issue for the outcome. Even if not fully implemented, if people think we're coming out of this crisis by then they'll credit those in power with the win. Incumbents will have a good November.

I agree. I think there is a greater chance this all helps Trump in the end than it hurts him. And as you know, I think he completely screwed up early on.
But, I do think there is something "bonding" when you go through a trial like this together. Neighbors. Communities. Country. And any President, unless they completely screw it up, will get a boost from that.
And like you said, there is a chance the economy will be back on the rise by November.

I would think the two things that would really hurt him right now would be:
1. He drops the guidelines too quickly and the spread goes like crazy and people blame him directly.
2. We have another virus spike right before November that puts us in lockdown and the economy tanks again.

Its been so fascinating to watch him during these pressers. It "Feels" like (and obviously none of us know for sure) that someone he really trusts has told him what I just posted above. That if he will just trust the doctors and keep a steady hand this will help him get re-elected. But every now and then his personality comes out and he just can't help himself. Its been an interesting watch seeing that play out. Overall, I would say he has listened to the angel on his shoulder and not the devil on the other one (except for early on once again).

[CitizenBBN]

He'd be smart to absolutely not drop the restrictions, not for months. If the Congress is willing to fund the whole economy with debt it's the smart move politically, and the smart move medically.

And I agree 100% he fights his own restraint. When he listens and is controlled he comes off well, not just in this but in other speeches, etc.

But then he just can't help himself and that bombast and unfounded hubris comes out. He's an interesting guy.

[CitizenBBN]

These numbers go to my point about Biden. He's just not going to develop a "core", a group that will, as Trump likened it, vote for him if he shot someone in Times Square.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...sm-polls-trump

Sanders has that base, as does Trump, but Biden doesn't inspire. He's a safe choice, a comfortable choice for many, but he doesn't inspire people.

Doesn't mean he won't win, but this election is about turnout. People turnout some for the positive, but mostly for the negative. The hate for Trump helps Biden, but he also has no positive turnout or very little, and Trump has quite a bit.

Of course that's if we have an election in November. Right now that seems awfully far off.

[dan_bgblue]

Hillary still wants to be President.

You heard it here first

[CitizenBBN]

This assault/harassment thing is gaining more support. No the networks that are the soulless minions of DNC orthodoxy won't report it, but a lot of the activist Hollywood people are now turning on the whole party, and they need those Bernie supporters to carry the day and they know it.

Chances of Hillary getting the call are still way less than 50% but I'd say they are non-zero right now.