I neither said nor inferred any such thing.Originally Posted by CitizenBBN
I neither said nor inferred any such thing.
No different than your inference that some here don’t care about about cause and effect of government action/non action in this situation.
You compared the restrictions on freedom of assembly to laws on DUI and seatbelts. Yeah, you did.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
Here you are dismissing utterly the freedom of assembly:
that's the kind of statement you'd see in a Communist Chinese broadcast justifying the closing of Mosques or in the USSR to close churches.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
I would wager every person here, who had a grandchild being taken to a church for services or that risked being exposed would totally support restricting such a gathering.
As far as our own admitted devils advocate, let's not make him feel uncomfortable. The situation we are all in is quite unique, and also unique to each individual, and not so cut and dry.
Last edited by kingcat; 04-13-2020 at 07:39 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
I like the way this is trending:
Screen Shot 2020-04-13 at 9.03.57 PM.jpg
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
But condolences to KAT on the loss of his mother. They were very close.
U really think players are going to duke without being paid over Kentucky?--Gilbert Arenas, 9/12/19
I have 3 friends who have lost family members to this. As UK fans we know of KAT’s mom, and media members who cover UK that have had it. It touches most all of us that way.
I would not support the government restricting this gathering - even if it kept my grandchild from going.
With that being said, I would be extremely disappointed in my job as a parent if my son/daughter would risk taking their child to this service.
And if every church decided they must follow suit in your community? Knowing it increases the chance of everyone you love contracting the virus tenfold or twenty fold.
In a large city that would be a death sentence for someone you know, and very likely someone you love. And forgive me for saying, but if it did, I do not believe for one second anyone here would then be so quick to agree.
Last edited by kingcat; 04-13-2020 at 11:35 PM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
Time for this to be OVER. The point of the quarantine was to slow or flatten the curve so that hospitals were not overwhelmed, and that we had time to develop testing and treatments. That has been achieved. The idea that it ends when there are zero cases is unrealistic, and unnecessary. It is time to reopen and get those LOW RISK people back working. Those in the high risk category can and should remain isolated until a vaccine comes out or they test antibody positive.
Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.
I just don't believe in the suspension of the Bill of Rights. Also, if you notice, most states are not pushing the limits here. Dewine from Ohio keeps imploring churches to shut down but is not taking action against them. Bashear is largely doing the same thing. They know it is a court fight they would likely lose.
I'm glad my church shut down, and I wouldn't have gone anyway. I do not support government shutting them down by gun, which is what you are advocating.
No I'm not. No more than some seem to be advocating defying any such order by gun.
I am saying they are not above being placed in quarantine after such a public gathering. There are not the resources to monitor their social distancing.
That is how you gently and wisely enforce the request.
EDIT: I would add, it is the Christian thing to do..if disobeying is actually a Christian undertaking in the least. I view it more as a stunt to make headlines and to intentionally abuse their rights.
I'd also mention that your moniker is so appropriate for the time. I think my wife may qualify for that designation being isolated with me for so long..
Last edited by kingcat; 04-14-2020 at 11:22 AM.
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
I grabbed this from one of the sports thread that...
South Dakota is now one of the hot spots, has closed a factory down, and local mayors are begging for the governor to take action.
Kentucky, on the other had, has basically shut it down where the spread is happening in nursing homes and those disobeying the orders. It wouldn't surprise me if this time next week, that South Dakota passes Kentucky. At some point people that thought that locking down wasn't the answer are going to have to realize that it IS the answer.
As some places are hitting their apex, the questions start to turn to:
-is there adequate, mass testing? So far, NO, and no plans for there to be
-with relaxed social distancing, what is an acceptable infection rate, death rate? Models in LA and elsewhere are predicting mid-May relaxing would result in a 95% infection rate. We won't know those until we see what is happening in other countries, or we test some regions in the U.S. Currently, where places around the world relaxed restrictions, they are finding themselves almost back to where they started
Also, you're seeing new models call for forms of social distancing (specifically large gatherings) into 2022 in a new Harvard study
I know people are ready to get this going, I'm dying to get out of the house, but we're just getting started in what a new normal looks like.
I agree. The biggest problem is that some Governor's didn’t shut down.
This is why I kept clamoring for a 30 day national lockdown.
The issue now is we are all on different timetables of the curve.
That’s especially an issue with highly visited states like California and NY.
As soon as we (California) get on the other side of that curve (May 15 shows 0 deaths) several states will still be fully infected. Which is why that model has everyone on lockdown until May 31st.
States that could let up might not be able to because they are waiting on the slower states.
The other thing that I forgot to mention is the spike in people in other countries that no longer show symptoms for a month, but are still testing positive, as we have seen with Sturgill Simpson.
At least from what I’ve seen, we don’t understand the ability of those people to spread. That could just be another thing to add on top is asymptomatic carriers.
I just read that MLB and over 10,000 workers, families for 27 teams have agreed to be test patients for the antibody studies. A creative way to get the season going.
This is all stuff that I never in my 64 years thought we'd be discussing..
“Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
“I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
-Patriot and Senator. John McCain
Absolutely!! I expect Alabama will begin to lift the Stay at Home order before the April 30 date that's in the current order. It could end in the next 10 days. No schools will be open and there will be no large scale public gatherings. I do expect businesses that can demonstrate they can maintain social distancing will reopen.
Where statistics are available hospitalizations are down, some by as much as 1/3.
Real Fan since 1958
I want this thing over as much as anyone. And yes, we have to get the economy going again. But if we let up too soon and this thing reignites, we are literally starting over.
This is the chart that scares me to death: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
I know there are more cases out there than have been reported. But those death rates are staggering.
~Puma~
Word is that the public school system here in KY will not reopen this year. Classwork will be completed from home and there will not be any standardized testing to monitor student progress toward the established target goals.
Governor is unlikely to give the word to go forth and shop and multiply until the CDC says the virus is dead and gone.
Last edited by dan_bgblue; 04-15-2020 at 11:07 AM.
seeya
dan
I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.
I don't believe anyone can argue against the death rate being horrible. The rate will always be horrible. The trend in new cases and existing cases however is what will determine how and when we let up. And in many places that will be very soon.
Real Fan since 1958
With such poor testing, we don't understand how bad the situation is. We are flying blind. Round 2 of the Spanish Flu in the US was much more worse than the first go around.
We need to learn so much about this virus. How do the antibodies work? What is the likelihood of someone getting it again? What is the mortality rate if reinfection is possible.
Yes. I agree. There is a threshold that the Scientific community seems to agree with.
When the average of deaths per day is 0.3 per million people, restrictions can be lifted.
That means that the virus is contained enough that we can go back to a “containment phase” (which we failed at the first time) and lift some restrictions to be out of the mitigation stage.
That’s roughly 328 deaths a day in America. Yesterday, we had 2,400.
Based on the model the White House has been using, we will reach that point on May 22nd (or sooner) if all states will remain on lockdown.
The problem is that not every state is on lockdown. So as some that are (like mine) are on the way down (California will reach that mark in a few weeks) others are still rising.
And since we live in a border-less country states will be reinfected in no time.
Now, maybe they can do that regionally once some areas hit that #. But they would basically have to temporarily ban all domestic travel to those areas.
This might very well be his plan. I don’t know.
Specifically, California will reach this on May 3rd according to the model.
~Puma~
Yes, it is very much a regional issue, and the lock downs will ease on a regional basis. Much to the chagrin of my liberal friends there will be no Federal Government answer. I believe there are many states ahead of California on being ready to ease restrictions. You will see many before May 3.
There is one other factor in all of this. You can’t control the American public the way many in DC wish. Sanctions will remain in place as long as the citizens wish. There are many signs the pubic is ready to go about their business. Where you saw no activity on our streets 15-20 days ago, people are now out and about.
The governments need to move quickly to stay ahead of the citizenry. If professional politicians and bureaucrats fail to read the sentiments of the public, they will be overrun. The medical community and bureaucrats can lead only to the extent the American public allows. Right now the populace is starting to become restless.
Real Fan since 1958
I think only Washington is ahead of California on that. But I would have to do the numbers for every state.
California had 55 deaths yesterday. But we have 40 million people. We have to get down to 12 a day to reach where they say is safe.
Other states obviously have less, but their population is way less. So, they are further from the "containment" criteria.
And I agree, people are getting restless. I certainly am. But people need to get educated. If restrictions are lifted before they are in containment (and we are close)....all of this was for nothing and there will be an instant spike.
And what happens is it doesn't matter if businesses are "open". You will have people not going to work, people not going to any of those businesses and worse situation altogether. And of course way more deaths.
Don't get me wrong. We are close. I just think we have to wait until we are there. California is 3 weeks away. We can handle it. And then, hopefully, restrictions will slowly be lifted and it can be contained out here. But we were the first state to go on lockdown.
For those states that delayed, they will have to wait longer. Or again, all of this was for nothing.
~Puma~
Alabama, fwiw, is expected to hit that mark on May 16th.
~Puma~
People are as educated as they want to be.
Real Fan since 1958
Ha. True. As Cuomo said, “The restrictions are only as good as people complying to them. We can’t arrest 2 million people”.
He’s right.
For the sake of all of us, I hope people keep complying for a few more weeks.
You won't have to worry about people running back to work. 95% of Americans got a raise to be laid off and that lasts till June 30 I think.
Seriously, we are shut down thanks to that as much as the virus at this point. lol
And yes, I think that was part of the point. The other part being to keep enough disposable income in the system to keep the economy ready for a restart.
People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.
63C3A2B7-108E-4E1B-8E48-4FB7DE79E721.jpg
U really think players are going to duke without being paid over Kentucky?--Gilbert Arenas, 9/12/19
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