Coronavirus

[kingcat]

There is no credible defense of it.

I believe both extremes are squeezing the middle in hopes of a one party system of government. Lies are more and more acceptable in the hopes of accomplishing that. No matter which side you take, it is an affront to democracy and should be punished severely.
The founding fathers themselves would have rebelled forcibly because there is no respectable of justifiable "side".

It is criminal in intent, and exceedingly sinful by nature. And from my perspective, no Christian can possibly accept it as less. And that's not me talking, it is all too clear to those whom God enlightens who fathers such lies. Lies with an intent and a purpose.
What is not so clear is to what extent those lies have been accepted by a willful turning away from truth.

The secular danger on the other hand is that it follows a historic pattern of facism
One that even the best and most educated of society were quick to dismiss in the midst of propagandized fear and mistrust.

And done so with what seemed then, good intentions.

(and I know the same can be said of communism when applicable.. It is not applicable here)

[PedroDaGr8]

Whelp things just got real. First USA Coronavirus death just happened at a hospital about three miles away from me.

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[dan_bgblue]

Any details Pedro? Age, previous health issues. etc

[PedroDaGr8]

Any details Pedro? Age, previous health issues. etc

Older male in his 60s, mixed reports on whether he had previous issues, did not travel, authorities have no idea on source of infection. He was being treated for severe respiratory distress, tested positive for Coronavirus and died soon after.

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[PedroDaGr8]

Details about two other confirmed cases being treated near here:

The worker is a female in her 40s, currently in satisfactory condition and being treated at Overlake Medical Center in Bellevue and has no known travel outside the U.S. The resident is in her 70s and is in serious condition at EvergreenHealth in Kirkland.

More than 50 people at LifeCare are ill with respiratory issues.

“Additional positive cases are expected,” the press release noted.

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[CitizenBBN]

There will never be a time where I simply brush off the President of the United States tweeting lies or inane stuff and go, “Well, that’s just Trump being Trump”.

This is a terribly serious virus and situation and him tweeting this stuff and continuing to say it to the cameras should be outrageous to all of us.
And it matters. These tweets matter. How people and agencies respond to this matters.
We don’t know what this will be yet, but...
How W responded to 9/11 mattered. Overall, he handled it extremely well. I thought so at the time and said so. And I didn’t vote for him.
If he had of tweeted the day after 9/11, “Just another Dem hoax” it would have mattered.
The fact that Trump always does this stuff doesn’t make it any less outrageous and wrong.

I agree with the highlighted part at least.

Yes how he responds matters. The first thing he needs to do is reassure people and try to prevent a panic. He's doing that, albeit not in the professional and mild mannered way most people would prefer.

As to his responses about a "hoax", have you seen the lack of rallying together by his opponents? They have questioned his every move and issued no support.

So that flows both ways. As POTUS maybe Schiff can put a sock in it for a few minutes and not question Trump's competence for political gain and simply urge calm and working the problem and pledging support?

There's no doubt this is real, but the Democrats jumping on board the way they are will only encourage panic, and panic does no one any good.

And finally, whether the tweeting matters or not, it will not change any more than the sun rising in the East, so I choose to focus on what may really change and/or make a difference, which is the actual policies and results.

Likewise I expect Pelosi to play this for politics as well, which she has, so I don't worry about that too much either.

At this point this is Trump's test. Some Presidents never get one, some get a bunch. We'll see how he does.

[kingcat]

I doubt those who suffer will buy it being a democratic hoax.

There is obviously nothing more important than, nor out of bounds when, disparaging Democrats for the president's most ardent supporters. It has become a social phenomenon

And perhaps some Dems are just as bad...but that changes nothing.

[CitizenBBN]

I doubt those who suffer will buy it being a democratic hoax.

There is obviously nothing more important than, nor out of bounds when, disparaging Democrats for the president's most ardent supporters. It has become a social phenomenon

And perhaps some Dems are just as bad...but that changes nothing.

The reason Trump people love him is they feel the Dems have been this way, accusing anyone who disagrees of being a sexist, racist homophobe, and Trump is the first guy on this side of the aisle to fight fire with fire.

As Cal says, burn my house I burn your village. that's how Trump thinks and acts.

Not saying it's presidential, but when Maxine Waters, who holds a key House chair, calls for conservatives to be harassed in the streets, and no one on her side calls that out at all, well then a lot of people aren't going to be too torn up about Trump responding in kind.

The virus is obviously no hoax, but the panic some are fanning isn't going to do anything to help anyone. Trump clearly knows it's no hoax which is why he restricted air travel several weeks ago. What he's doing is responding to the fact that, instead of rallying together, the Dems are using every opportunity to take shots at Trump.

If the calls were for something constructive, like if the administration is mishandling the testing kit process, then great, good to do. But what we're seeing is just general "he's incompetent" attacks, which are only hurting the nation.

Trump is a counter puncher. he didn't just go after Pelosi on this until after Pelosi went after him. Sorry that this POTUS actually responds in kind.

[kingcat]

What he is doing is misleading the American people by lying to them for personal gain. The president is held to a much higher standard than that, even when the lives of hundreds of millions of Americans are not put at risk.

[PedroDaGr8]

Good and very bad news:

The good news is that they have announced greatly expanded screening protocols, FINALLY! The FDA announced they are going to circumvent the CDCs centralized testing process and allow labs to purchase tests from other sources. While not confirmed, this should allow companies to develop their own tests for it. Initially though, the labs will be purchasing tests from other countries.

The very bad news, they believe that the Coronavirus has been spreading in Western Washington for as long as 6 weeks. This means upwards of 1500 people may have been infected. If that is the case, then it's a matter of if and not when this virus spreads through the rest of the country.

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[CitizenBBN]

What he is doing is misleading the American people by lying to them for personal gain. The president is held to a much higher standard than that, even when the lives of hundreds of millions of Americans are not put at risk.

How is he "lying for personal gain"? You mean for political gain? Well if we hold every politician to that standard we wont' have any.

FWIW the "hoax" comment was at a rally and was referring to the Democratic response to all of this, not to the virus itself. Clearly he doesn't think it's a hoax as he has taken action as early as January on the issue.

Again, you guys focus on the words, parsing them to fit your confirmation bias of Trump, and ignore the results and actions. He's taken action. Maybe he should take more, but part of his job is to try to prevent a panic, and he's doing that too. Not in the way we may want but he's doing it the way Trump does it.

[bigsky]

Whelp things just got real. First USA Coronavirus death just happened at a hospital about three miles away from me.

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Pedro either The Washington governor who just declared a statewide “state of emergency”
because of one death Is either guilty of a tremendous overreaction or of not telling the people of Washington their true peril.

[Catonahottinroof]

You mean like Obama did when he said you could keep your doctor and your plan? Absolutely for POLITICAL gain.....smh. Some only see what they want to see....

What he is doing is misleading the American people by lying to them for personal gain. The president is held to a much higher standard than that, even when the lives of hundreds of millions of Americans are not put at risk.

[bigsky]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUAvTn3uz5w

[kingcat]

You mean like Obama did when he said you could keep your doctor and your plan? Absolutely for POLITICAL gain.....smh. Some only see what they want to see....

Aint that the truth..

[kingcat]

Aint that the truth..

OBama is not the president, and health care policy issues are different than issues involving health and life itself.
Whats hard to believe is that anyone would choose to search for justification, rather than at least say..he made a big mistake and move on.

And I believe my friends here know that to be the case, but are in a precarious position of having to accept and defend his every action now. And do so constantly and consistently.

But really, my concern in this instance is for the safety of our nation and the ones we love. I do not care who they support. My wife and family are at stake here, as are yours. Our grand kids and elderly family members face the possibility/probability of fighting for their very lives. And so I'd be angry no matter what official from what party tried to use that present danger for political advancement. And misinform the public for personal gain.

The Democrats are not to blame for anything, but some Republicans are stepping dangerously close to support, for adding to the problem, if it benefits their politics.

I'll say no more about it. But instead of advising others to think, or remember, a little self evaluation (which seems never an option to this point) never hurt any of us.
Even avid Trump supporters.

But like always i'll yield to the forum, and move on.

[CitizenBBN]

And I believe my friends here know that to be the case, but are in a precarious position of having to accept and defend his every action now. And do so constantly and consistently.

Do you think that Trump will fire us somehow? How are we "locked in" to anything vis a vis Trump exactly? B/c somehow my sense of self is tied to him or something so I can't say when he's done wrong?

I call Trump out when he deserves it and I've said for 3.5 years that he's a child in many ways, including his absolutely over the top absurd hyperbole. How many times do I have to say it? He's an asshat. The problem is the Democratic party saw fit to nominate a felonious shrew and now seem set to nominate and elderly Che Guevarra, so yeah Trump looks pretty good compared to the other options.

He was clearly referring in this case however to the Dem reaction to the virus being the "hoax", not the virus itself. Even Trump doesn't think the virus is a hoax and his actions prove it.

Sure he's going to call for calm, that's what he should do, and yes he'll do it by saying this virus is ugly and we have the best ever doctors in history working on it, etc. It's silly, but it's not the end of the world.

It beats so many other politicians who say all the right things and do none of the right things. Trump doesn't say the right things, but by and large his policy moves have been sound. It's a big improvement, if not a complete win.

[CitizenBBN]

And yes the Dems are trying to use this for political advancement. Have you heard any of them offer support for the Administration and say "we're here to work together and do what we can to help"? Or has it just been criticism about how it's being handled with very little actual discussion of what should be done different?

So I assume per your statement you're as mad at the NYT op-ed calling it "Trumpvirus" as you are at him calling it a hoax. If so good, but this is time to rally around whichever person is PResident and try to find ways to help and support and yes push for policies even if they disagree, but do so constructively.

[KSRBEvans]

Good and very bad news:

The good news is that they have announced greatly expanded screening protocols, FINALLY! The FDA announced they are going to circumvent the CDCs centralized testing process and allow labs to purchase tests from other sources. While not confirmed, this should allow companies to develop their own tests for it. Initially though, the labs will be purchasing tests from other countries.

The very bad news, they believe that the Coronavirus has been spreading in Western Washington for as long as 6 weeks. This means upwards of 1500 people may have been infected. If that is the case, then it's a matter of if and not when this virus spreads through the rest of the country.

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1/4 of the Kirkland WA fire department is on quarantine because they were in contact with the nursing home where they found so many cases:

https://twitter.com/sherifink/status...00331057721344

[Catonahottinroof]

2 cases here in Florida. 1 in Manatee County, the other in Hillsborough County

https://www.fox13news.com/news/flori...or-coronavirus

[KSRBEvans]

San Antonio--quarantined patient returning from Wuhan tests negative twice, released as asymptomatic, goes to a mall for 2 hours.

Recalled to quarantine after a 3rd test is "weakly" positive.

https://www.tpr.org/post/coronavirus...ll-san-antonio

Negative test or not, don't you think they would've advised the person not to be in big crowds unless absolutely necessary?

[ukpumacat]

So I assume per your statement you're as mad at the NYT op-ed calling it "Trumpvirus" as you are at him calling it a hoax.

I know you were directing that at Kingcat but yes, the op-ed calling it that was horrible.
The good news to me about all of this is that it seems like Trump's team has figured out that his tweets, etc were not being received well. Pence did a much better job on the Sunday shows and they had another spokesperson on Fox News Sunday that was very informative.
Again, I understand Trump doesn't want the market to crash and he doesn't want any huge pandemic before the election. And I also understand that some Dem leaders will try and use this to hurt him which is just as political.
But I hate all of that. This is not political and should not be. And the biggest way you can tell it is political is that every Trump supporter in my life are all using the same Fox News sound bites and are not taking this nearly serious enough.

Trump is the President and he should and will be held to a higher standard. His initial response to this Imo was slow, political and inexcusable. Since, he seems to be taking it very serious and his spokespeople have done a better job communicating to the American public (which is a big part of his job).
Yes, people should not panic.
But yes, people should take this very seriously. Because its terribly contagious and has spread faster than SARS, EBOLA, etc. And people are dying from it.

As Enes tweeted, this graphic speaks volumes: https://twitter.com/EnesKanter/statu...146875394?s=20

[ukpumacat]

Pedro either The Washington governor who just declared a statewide “state of emergency”
because of one death Is either guilty of a tremendous overreaction or of not telling the people of Washington their true peril.

6 now. This thing could very likely blow up quick. Good for the Governor for reacting quickly imo. As Pedro said, the issue is that they don't know where many of these people got it. That means there are likely hundreds who have it and don't know it.

[kingcat]

And yes the Dems are trying to use this for political advancement. Have you heard any of them offer support for the Administration and say "we're here to work together and do what we can to help"? Or has it just been criticism about how it's being handled with very little actual discussion of what should be done different?

So I assume per your statement you're as mad at the NYT op-ed calling it "Trumpvirus" as you are at him calling it a hoax. If so good, but this is time to rally around whichever person is PResident and try to find ways to help and support and yes push for policies even if they disagree, but do so constructively.

It’s about all I talk about on here with you all. Anyone who stoops to something like that should be called out on either side. In these discussions a good defense is not to go on offense. It is very transparent and “the ball is in your court” is not a method of real discourse.
Mr Trump had it within his power to unite this country against this pestilence and totally avoid the NYT type barbs, but chose to politicize it himself.

He naturally had the lead. But dropped the ball willingly in dividing the country even further. That’s his choice and a sad and unsupportable one imho. Of course I am a dastardly Democrat pulling for millions to die.

[bigsky]

Time for transparency, not obfuscation. And yep, one dead guy turned into six over the weekend. Is washing up and getting plenty of exercise still the advice? As I said elsewhere, I've learned more from pedrodagr8 and Korea internet than from all the politicians in the united states. Yeah, start there in your political debates. A pox on both their houses.

• Total confirmed cases: More than 89,100
• Total deaths: At least 3,040
• 3040/89100=3.4%

[ukpumacat]

Time for transparency, not obfuscation. And yep, one dead guy turned into six over the weekend. Is washing up and getting plenty of exercise still the advice? As I said elsewhere, I've learned more from pedrodagr8 and Korea internet than from all the politicians in the united states. Yeah, start there in your political debates. A pox on both their houses.

• Total confirmed cases: More than 89,100
• Total deaths: At least 3,040
• 3040/89100=3.4%

That's scary.

[CitizenBBN]

I'm not sure I agree Trump's response was slow or political. He took heat for shutting down China travel weeks ago, and compared to the work of other nations it seems he's been responding about as one would expect.

I am concerned about the details of the response, like letting a guy leave quarantine and he goes and hangs out at the mall, but that's not on the POTUS so much as the layers of bureaucracy. It's like blaming FDR for a friendly fire incident in WWII.

As for the testing kits, this just came up:

https://www.foxnews.com/health/cdc-l...minated-report

Again, I'm not deflecting from Trump, but typically these kinds of decisions about whose kits to use etc. aren't really made at the POTUS level. I wouldn't blame Obama for it either. I'm smelling bureaucracy in the way here, people who think only the CDC can do this "right" or whatever.

I don't know that to be the case, maybe there's a political motive, but since the CDC isn't making money for big donors I don't see a financial angle (if anything just the opposite if big pharma companies are cut out of the government purchasing), and I don't see any other political gain, which makes me think it's a bureaucratic turf issue. Bureaucracies DO act that way organically, wanting to be "the man" with the power and influence and internalize everything they can.

Trump needs to tell people to be calm, and then the administration needs to go tie some knots in some people to lock this down.

Another big issue in this is we are a federal system. We don't have the ability to set up quarantine check points and establish broad criteria very easily. We can ask states to do X or Y and should certainly, but this is an unwieldy system for these kinds of situations.

As for "talking points" I take this very very seriously. I'm deeply concerned about the impact on my business from it, and I know the virus itself isn't a "hoax". At the same time I know political pandering when I see it and I see far more of that out of DC on both sides than I see of real results or help.

At this point I may give Trump a C on this, but I'd give the national Democrats an F. They have done nothing constructive of which I am aware at all. Now the responsibility is on Trump so his grade gets more weight, but for their part they really have yet to do anything other than critique, largely with no concrete suggestions that I've seen as to what to do different.

Trump has every motive to whip this thing regardless of expense or steps necessary, and politically it's cold but the Dems have every motive to not have it go well. I'm sure they don't want people to die, but that is the basic incentive structure of the politics of this situation, and that's just the cold truth. Same as a war, etc.

Hopefully Pence will prove an able administrator, for all our sakes.

[ukpumacat]

I'm not sure I agree Trump's response was slow or political.

It was both.

His travel ban move was great. No issues there at all. And it likely did help slow the spread and he deserves credit for that.

But the biggest issue is that he completely downplayed this early on. And that was not only unwise but was very political. These are exact quotes from him in the last few weeks:

“the 15 (cases of Coronavirus), within a couple of days, is going to be down to close to zero. That’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”

When asked about school's having preparedness plans just in case they need to shut down:
“I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up,” he said. “We’re going very substantially down, not up.”

"Low Ratings Fake News MSDNC (Comcast) &
@CNN are doing everything possible to make the Caronavirus (his misspelling not mine) look as bad as possible, including panicking markets, if possible. Likewise their incompetent Do Nothing Democrat comrades are all talk, no action. USA in great shape!"


"The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!"


He downplayed this badly and then Fox News and Rush, etc carried that mantle for him. He was wrong on every one of those statements. Those aren't, "Let's not panic here" statements. Those are just outright wrong.
A huge part of not causing a panic is being forthright and correct in your public assessments as President. When a President makes statements like that mere weeks or days before things get worse (and most of us knew they would) it causes complete public distrust in a time of crisis.
HE is the leader. Those statements are not leading. They are simply politicizing.

[dan_bgblue]

Another big issue in this is we are a federal system. We don't have the ability to set up quarantine check points and establish broad criteria very easily. We can ask states to do X or Y and should certainly, but this is an unwieldy system for these kinds of situations.

Here is a suggestion on that front.Call out the national guard and make sure there are enough of them with the necessary training to run checkpoints at local malls, Walmarts, major grocery stores, anywhere the public gathers en masse. Start training tomorrow and put them in the field ASAP. That will get some pressure off the back of he administration and will make the socialists happy due to the free health scans.

[kingcat]

It was both.

His travel ban move was great. No issues there at all. And it likely did help slow the spread and he deserves credit for that.

But the biggest issue is that he completely downplayed this early on. And that was not only unwise but was very political. These are exact quotes from him in the last few weeks:

“the 15 (cases of Coronavirus), within a couple of days, is going to be down to close to zero. That’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”

When asked about school's having preparedness plans just in case they need to shut down:
“I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up,” he said. “We’re going very substantially down, not up.”

"Low Ratings Fake News MSDNC (Comcast) &
@CNN are doing everything possible to make the Caronavirus (his misspelling not mine) look as bad as possible, including panicking markets, if possible. Likewise their incompetent Do Nothing Democrat comrades are all talk, no action. USA in great shape!"


"The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!"


He downplayed this badly and then Fox News and Rush, etc carried that mantle for him. He was wrong on every one of those statements. Those aren't, "Let's not panic here" statements. Those are just outright wrong.
A huge part of not causing a panic is being forthright and correct in your public assessments as President. When a President makes statements like that mere weeks or days before things get worse (and most of us knew they would) it causes complete public distrust in a time of crisis.
HE is the leader. Those statements are not leading. They are simply politicizing.

I admit some bias, but that is a tremendous post.