Coronavirus

[Catonahottinroof]

There is no excuse for the right to play politics either. There is enough federal apparatus in place to police it if necessary. This isn’t the time nor the place....smh

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisette.../#179064f072b1

[CitizenBBN]

I guess the question is, what is meant by temporary. If it is for two or three months I doubt it would affect the job force.

It will have a huge impact right away if you want to order pizza.

Papa Johns etc are hiring a LOT of people right now. There's absolutely no incentive for those laid off to get off unemployment and take those jobs with this kind of increase.

The answer from those on the other side is they can just raise wages. Sure. You don't mind paying $30 for that pizza do you instead of $15?

It's going to put a huge kink in the workforce shift we need for those "temporary" months.

Say you make a relatively average wage, like $11-14/hr. That's about a $20-$25K per year type job. In Kentucky you'd go from say $450/wk to about $225/wk. Now you go to $225+600 or $875 per week. Now you're making $20-$22/hour.

Do you sit at home and draw $20/hour or do you go work at Papa John's for half that?

That's about what Papa John's now pays, maybe a bit more than double. So to get those workers they have to double their cost at least.

So that $15 pie is now $30. We're all good with that right?

This is why "guaranteed minimum incomes" and such are such a problem. You know what happens when you give everyone a big check? Prices go up the same proportion, and we have inflation.

Inflation will be tough in this economy under these conditions, but there's no doubt food delivery and such will still really struggle to attract workers.

It's going to cause all kinds of havoc.

Oh, and wait till next April when people figure out they owe taxes on that money and that this bump may have moved them a bracket. that'll be another bill to fix that stuff.

[CitizenBBN]

There is no excuse for the right to play politics either. There is enough federal apparatus in place to police it if necessary. This isn’t the time nor the place....smh

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisette.../#179064f072b1

This isn't playing politics. it is a HUGE failure of the process last week to inform the Senators of what was being negotiated so this was all resolved in the process already.

In the end Graham is right. This will be a fiasco at the local level.

Now, should they hold their nose and vote for it? Probably. IMO he needed to go to the leadership, find out this is in fact a sticking point, and then let it go if it was.

That being said the debate is happening now, the vote should fail, and then a simple majority vote. It's not days, but there's no doubt it's a failure of the staff to really make sure all their bosses understood what was being done.

Graham's objection is very, VERY valid, but it should have been raised last week. That's the failure here.

[CitizenBBN]

And fwiw, just putting everyone at 100% of their salary was going to already make it hard to hire those workers. This is a matter of degrees, at the margin, as are all economics, but doing it this way is a HUGE change.

A $450 a week employee goes from about $225 a week on regular UE, not back to $450 but to $825. Their salary nearly doubles if they stay on unemployment (about 80% raise).

Maybe papa johns can pay someone their regular pay to work, $11-$13 an hour. They aren't paying someone $20 an hour to deliver pizzas. not unless that pie costs $30-40.

[CitizenBBN]

the good news it's a hell of a stimulus.

And that's on TOP of the direct payment check.

So you get laid off at $11-$13 or so an hour, this goes 2 months, you get $1,200 cash not counting kids and you get $3,000 MORE on unemployment.

So you're up about $4,200, or more than 2 months pay, in that two months. You got a 20% or so bonus for going through this.

Amazon will be busy as heck delivering new 4k Tvs and game systems, if they can hire enough people to get them out the door.

[CitizenBBN]

OH, and the political side of this? IF Trump gets us through this without a medical disaster, this may just hand him the election. He'll be seen as having beaten the pandemic AND all those working class voters are actually doing just fine economically to boot and didn't miss a stitch.

They'll sit in front of that big 60" 4K TV and watch Trump talk about how it was the best victory in all of human history, and they'll think that maybe he's right.

(this one is supposed to be funny. Truth be told there's a long way till November for everyone, and he may be running against cuomo before this is over)

[Catonahottinroof]

New York at 1580 cases per million. The US as a whole is at 200 cases per million. The US minus New York is 107 cases per million.
The Florida governor has mandated that New York travelers to Florida self quarantine for 14 days. I’m not really sure he can enforce that in any capacity however.

[CitizenBBN]

New York at 1580 cases per million. The US as a whole is at 200 cases per million. The US minus New York is 107 cases per million.
The Florida governor has mandated that New York travelers to Florida self quarantine for 14 days. I’m not really sure he can enforce that in any capacity however.

New York handled this badly to say the least, and are paying for it. Other than them as a nation we're actually doing well so far. Not great, but there is no "great" in this fight. It's a war of attrition.

[CitizenBBN]

Sasse's amendment failed, 48-48, so voting started on full bill. Simple majority this time.

[CitizenBBN]

Senate passes unanimously, on to the House. Only issue should be if one member steps out of the line. The whips have been working hard today.

[KSRBEvans]

3.2 million new jobless claims in one week. For perspective, here's a chart showing the history of jobless claims since 1970:

Screen Shot 2020-03-26 at 10.39.23 AM.jpg

[CitizenBBN]

That's not even a sweat now BEvans. Almost every single one of those people just got a 4 month raise.

Seriously, we're borrowing our way out of this, and if every person on UE actually has MORE money I'm not sure what that number means as an indicator. All bets are off with this spending package in terms of what the economy does next.

The biggest problem will be getting people to go back to their jobs. I'm not kidding. Almost all of those people will be taking a pay cut to return to work if they are called back in the next 4 months.

I hope most will go back since they want a job after the 4 month window, but it may get interesting.

But the US government just basically made jobless claims irrelevant as an indicator of consumer spending. There's no reason for a contraction based on consumer demand as they won't be short money at all.

[ukpumacat]

There is no excuse for the right to play politics either. There is enough federal apparatus in place to police it if necessary. This isn’t the time nor the place....smh

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisette.../#179064f072b1

Cat, surely you have read this thread. Its only "playing politics" when the Dems are doing it.

As I said two days ago, this is a HUGE 2 Trillion dollar deal and its going to get done. I don't blame either side for trying to get it right (and of course what they consider "right" is based on the people who put them in office). This is two very large groups (House and Senate) that all have to get on the same page and that isn't easy. In the end, you know you have a good compromise when neither side is thrilled. This deal seems to be that.
There are going to be things in there neither side will like. But the leaders have to get their caucuses on board...so these things are necessary.
But the fact that a deal this large is getting done in a country this divided...is impressive frankly. People need it. So I am glad they did it.

[KSRBEvans]

Hospitals considering universal DNR for Coronavirus patients:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...ot-resucitate/

[Catonahottinroof]

No, I’m just floating along in life.....smh
Since I’m neither Democrat or Republican, I can and have called out both. Can you?

B]Cat, surely you have read this thread. Its only "playing politics" when the Dems are doing it. [[/B]

As I said two days ago, this is a HUGE 2 Trillion dollar deal and its going to get done. I don't blame either side for trying to get it right (and of course what they consider "right" is based on the people who put them in office). This is two very large groups (House and Senate) that all have to get on the same page and that isn't easy. In the end, you know you have a good compromise when neither side is thrilled. This deal seems to be that.
There are going to be things in there neither side will like. But the leaders have to get their caucuses on board...so these things are necessary.
But the fact that a deal this large is getting done in a country this divided...is impressive frankly. People need it. So I am glad they did it.

[CitizenBBN]

Cat, surely you have read this thread. Its only "playing politics" when the Dems are doing it.

Only when they do it.

I've repeatedly asked someone to point out the GOP equivalent of airline emissions restrictions and NEA funding in the GOP version of the bill, the one voted down for debate on Sunday.

Guess it's a long read, so I'll keep waiting.

in fact I'll help you out. The only one I know that's a debate is the money to buy oil for the strategic reserve. Other than the fact that

a) the oil business does need propping up right now to maintain US production amid a Saudi/Russian price war, so you know like drugs and ventilators we don't have to depend on them for oil, and

b) you like to buy things when they are cheap, not expensive, and oil is at a super low price, so now might be a good time to stock up on it. Esp. if this lasts 5-6 months and a lot of the small operations and frackers in the US have to shutter, severely limiting the US strategic reserve.


The Dems killed that as a "bailout" and "corporate welfare", despite the fact that it's absolutely strategic and every other industry and person in America is getting a bailout.

OK, so I helped. Now point out the GOP equivalent of asking for companies to have mandatory diversity officers.

[CitizenBBN]

And when the GOP does some onerous, I point it out.

For example the delay over the $600 UE payment, while not a political play (Graham dealt with at at the worst possible political time, not the best, so that wasn't for timing), was a failure of the GOP staff to make sure all the Senators were on board with the economics of that part of the package.

This bill has a LOT of stupid crap in it that is thanks to our liberal friends. People on UE getting pay raises, funding for things that don't matter right now, etc. I just don't see anything that's a GOP nugget that isn't tied to actually getting stimulus money out to people or directly bailing out industries, which were the two goals of the bill from the start.

When they do the next stupid thing, and they will, I'll happy address it.

[ukpumacat]

No, I’m just floating along in life.....smh
Since I’m neither Democrat or Republican, I can and have called out both. Can you?

Yep. Do it all the time. Both are guilty.

[ukpumacat]

Only when they do it.

I've repeatedly asked someone to point out the GOP equivalent of airline emissions restrictions and NEA funding in the GOP version of the bill, the one voted down for debate on Sunday.

A long standing tactic in Debate tournaments is to frame the debate so narrowly that you force your opponent to respond within that tiny, narrow frame. It works. Unless it doesn't.

There are many ways to "play politics" that are much broader than just pointing "out the GOP equivalent of airline emissions restrictions and NEA funding in the GOP version of the bill". Some of those have been posted in this thread. The bottom line is that we don't agree. And that is ok. You don't think those are "playing politics". I do. Fine. Move on.

Dems delayed for what mattered to them (restrictions on corporate bailouts). Reps delayed for what mattered to them (restrictions on unemployment).

The deal got done. That's the bottom line. And it was to you to...remember?
"Yes this will pass. WHEN WILL IT PASS? that's kinda the question."
"But when will it fu**ing pass????"

It passed the next day.

[Catfan73]

The Democrats weren’t about to put the fox in charge of the henhouse, especially after Trump tweeted that HE would be the oversight, okay.’ (Paraphrasing.). Of course it’s all been expectedly framed as the Democrats kept voting against giving the poor huddled masses any money, and I’m sure 99% of the residents left in McDowell County WV believe that to be just as true as they still believe in their hearts that Trump will save the coal industry lol.

[Catonahottinroof]

So the US has surpassed China in the number of cases. China’s number is likely suppressed reporting by the state however. 661A7C19-F5CB-4F80-B915-1AE547CD60E6.jpg

[CitizenBBN]

China is lying through their teeth. And shooting anyone who doesn't go along with it.

[KSRBEvans]

NYC: wow.

9C89207B-6CD4-4E86-A9B9-5C93B5F4B589.jpg

[Catonahottinroof]

New York is almost to 2000 cases per million of population.....

[kingcat]

Something just isnt adding up imo.

[CitizenBBN]

Something just isnt adding up imo.

Re New York it's bc of two factors:

1) Very dense,

2) LOTS of people coming and going to infected countries (their first case was from someone coming from Iran)

3) Slow response.

This is a video with Tucker but has video of Feb 2nd of the NYC Public Health Commissioner telling people to go out and socialize, and comments to go to Chinatown for a festival, etc. or you're racist, etc.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6145069779001#sp=show-clips

Trump was too optimistic when this started, but he doesn't hold a candle to the behavior of New York's leaders.

De blasio held out until March 11th telling people to go about their lives, etc. That was the same day the SEC tournament was cancelled for reference.

For their density and the number of cases they were getting coming in from abroad they just held off way too long.

Their first case was March 1st. Ours was March 6th. We closed schools on the same Monday.

Kentucky also doing better than Tennessee etc., again b/c of the earlier action to distance. New York had more seeding points, is far denser and more social, AND they waited as long as even states like Kentucky to start clamping down.

That's IMO why Cuomo is so very in charge now. He can't leave it to New York leaders.

[kingcat]

I knew density would have a huge impact. But the numbers still surprised me

[CitizenBBN]

FWIW Kentucky and New York have done a lot of things about the same time. The difference is that New York was already having 100s of cases.

By March 7th, when we had our first case, they had 89. We still closed bars and restaurants at the same time.

Goodness knows how many foreign travelers brought seed points to the city and due to density and lifestyle it was a wildfire.

[CitizenBBN]

I knew density would have a huge impact. But the numbers still surprised me

that's part of it. but not all of it IMO.

NY is also very social, people go out and eat rather than eat at home, etc. Lots of contact.

Also multiple starting points with foreign travel.

BUT, the also were way behind on acting compared to other states. See above, they had about 90 cases when we had 1, yet we have closed things at about the same rate as New York.

With 90 cases on March 7th why go till the 15th to close restaurants, schools etc.?

[CitizenBBN]

By point of comparison the first San Francisco case was March 5th versus 1st for NY. they had a stay at home order on the 16th, about the same time as New York was shutting down.

BUT, they only had 40 cases. NY had 90 at that point. Much bigger city, but the point still stands IMO.

At every trigger point New York has waited longer than other cities and states to shut down. They've done it about the same time as others but they started several days sooner.

BTW, some of that isn't their fault. The truth is states like Kentucky have been piggybacking on them. They take an action and other states and cities go "OK we need to do that too". It's just that New York is further along the curve so they are getting hammered, and other parts of the US are benefitting from acting when they act b/c their numbers are better.