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  1. #1

    Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    IMO It's not a big surprise someone like Mayor Pete did well.

    Sanders I expected there, he has a strong grassroots base that was going to see him do well.

    But the problem is for everyone NOT on Bernie's wagon. The establishment loves Biden, b/c he's establishment, but the nation is still in a very Populist mindset that doesn't like the establishment, on either side.

    At the same time Bernie is a true socialist and his positions are extreme for many Democrats. So where do they go? Well many to Warren, who is kind of Bernie Lite, but Pete is also an obvious choice.

    He's more moderate, but also more of an outsider being only mayor of a pretty small down in the heartland. He's a good compromise between wanting an outsider and not wanting an extremist.

    IMO he's the best candidate to beat Trump only b/c of that triangulation, but not sure he can win the nomination. He was neck in neck with Bernie and if Warren and Bernie collapse to one candidate that's 45% of the Iowa votes. Biden then collapses to Pete and you have about a dead heat, but if Bloomberg doesn't bow out he will pull mostly from Pete's voters in these later races.

    I still see a very good possibility of an open convention, and if that happens Sander's people won't give in. Dems may be sorry they got rid of super delegates.
    People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.

  2. #2

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    No clue how it will end up but I will say the same thing I have been saying for several months:

    If Biden is the nominee, Trump will win. In fact, I think Trump will likely win big against Biden (in spite of what the polls say).

    If Bernie is the nominee, I think Trump will likely win in a close election.

    If Pete is the nominee, I think he can beat Trump. Not sure he will, but he can. If I were a Republican, he is the one guy I would not want to win the nomination.

    If Biden limps into South Carolina with no wins on his belt (which is very possible), I think you may see some of the establishment change course.
    ~Puma~

  3. #3

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    I agree re Pete. He's the best chance to beat Trump.

    But if he can't get any traction with minority voters it won't work. They don't have to vote for Trump, just stay home in a few key states.

    Bernie won't quit, so I can see the establshment switching to Pete, and if Warren drops out and supports Bernie then you have those two and Bloomberg going at it.

    The question is if Bloomberg's jump ahead move works or not. If it does it's an open convention IMO. If not Bernie may pull this off.
    People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.

  4. #4
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    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    I agree re Pete. He's the best chance to beat Trump.

    But if he can't get any traction with minority voters it won't work. They don't have to vote for Trump, just stay home in a few key states.

    Bernie won't quit, so I can see the establshment switching to Pete, and if Warren drops out and supports Bernie then you have those two and Bloomberg going at it.

    The question is if Bloomberg's jump ahead move works or not. If it does it's an open convention IMO. If not Bernie may pull this off.
    Bloomberg will get the nomination. His head to head will be the bloodiest campaign in history, worse than Clay and Jackson.
    Real Fan since 1958

  5. #5
    Unforgettable KSRBEvans's Avatar
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    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    In 2016 the GOP race was eventually going to come down to Trump and somebody other than Trump. It took so long for it to get down to those 2 candidates that Trump had already cemented the nomination by that point*.

    In 2020 it's eventually going to come down to Sanders and somebody other than Sanders. How long will it take Democrats to get to that point?



    *--And may have won it, anyway, but we'll never know because his opponents kept splitting the not-Trump vote until it was too late.
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  6. #6
    Fab Five dan_bgblue's Avatar
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    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    BE I see the Bern as leaning way too left and wanting to spend all the money we have with no way to repay the debt to you and me to win the nomination, That is just my opinion, but what strategy will he have to use to win the more center of the party vote, and do you see the 18 to 30 year old voter jumping on his bandwagon in their totally oblivious socialist frenzy to make a radical change from the status quo?

    I see, and saw, Trump as a radical change from the career politician and I think for the most part the change has worked out well, but if Bernie is voted in I guess CBBN and I are gonna have to start searching for that island again.
    seeya
    dan

    I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.

  7. #7
    Unforgettable KSRBEvans's Avatar
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    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Dan, IMHO "too left" or "too right" doesn't matter so much in primaries. It's about which group of voters are more committed, and in primaries they often skew more left (or right) from their party's center.

    My WAG is the Sanders folks are thinking a lot like Trump's folks were in 2016: get the nomination and then the rest of the party will fall in line. They're probably thinking those who didn't vote for Sanders definitely aren't switching to Trump, and they won't stay home because they want to vote against Trump so much. That's what Trump voters thought in 2016: the GOP voters who didn't vote for Trump sure aren't voting for Hillary, so they'll come around. And most did.
    Last edited by KSRBEvans; 02-06-2020 at 02:19 PM.
    U really think players are going to duke without being paid over Kentucky?--Gilbert Arenas, 9/12/19

  8. #8

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Sanders is McGovern, which is why the Democrats put in super delegates in the first place, and now they took them out and will maybe have the same thing happen again.

    Trump is very unappealing to a lot of people, but so is socialism. A lot of moderates will either just stay home or hold their nose and vote for Trump if Bernie is the alternative.

    The same way we held our noses when Clinton, arguably part of the most corrupt political machine since Tammany Hall or Harding and the Teapot Dome Scandal, was the alternative.
    Last edited by CitizenBBN; 02-06-2020 at 04:03 PM.
    People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.

  9. #9

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    And that's why Iowa is telling. Biden has the same problem as Jeb Bush, and the same reason Trump won the GOP race is the same reason Bernie and Pete are doing so well. Bernie, even as a Senator, is an "outsider" and agent of change simply b/c he's extreme. Pete is an outsider b/c he's got almost the same level of experience in government you or I.

    That populist shift hasn't gone away, and Biden and to lesser degree Warren, will struggle against it. Biden is the ultimate establishment choice, just like Jeb Bush.
    People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.

  10. #10

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    The DNC has screwed the pooch in Iowa. Trying to manipulate the info...getting a mayor Pete the bump when in reality he didn’t win....
    And they moan about Trump and the Russians.....

  11. #11

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof View Post
    The DNC has screwed the pooch in Iowa. Trying to manipulate the info...getting a mayor Pete the bump when in reality he didn’t win....
    And they moan about Trump and the Russians.....
    I love how Trump "cheated" in the election by colluding with Russia, and a 2 year massive investigation proved it wasn't true.

    But the Dems manipulate the entire primary process in 2016 to make sure the "right" candidate won, and may be doing so again, and that's not cheating or disenfranchising anyone?

    They put in an absentee system in states like California where there is absolutely no chain of custody over ballots and that's not "cheating"?

    I wish Trump would make me AG. I'd go after that stuff as violations of the Voting Rights Act and the 15th Amendment.
    People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.

  12. #12
    Fab Five dan_bgblue's Avatar
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    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Think you can hang an impeachable offense on Pelosi? You don't have to worry about Schiff and Nadler as Pelosi will throw them under the bus..
    seeya
    dan

    I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.

  13. #13

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    A pretty succinct discussion on Iowa and the candidates and the DNC

    https://youtu.be/5GFneySIGVg

  14. #14

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    The biggest Iowa story is not making the headlines that it should. Turnout was expected to be 300,000; but was only 176,000.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/09/u...democrats.html

  15. #15
    Fab Five dan_bgblue's Avatar
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    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithKSR View Post
    The biggest Iowa story is not making the headlines that it should. Turnout was expected to be 300,000; but was only 176,000.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/09/u...democrats.html
    That is indeed news. Thanks for sharing
    seeya
    dan

    I'm just one stomach flu away from my goal weight.

  16. #16

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithKSR View Post
    The biggest Iowa story is not making the headlines that it should. Turnout was expected to be 300,000; but was only 176,000.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/09/u...democrats.html
    Turnout will decide this race for sure. The Democrats have been counting on the anti-trump fervor but if that wanes between now and November they may have issues, esp. since the impeachment has helped stoke up Trump's base.

    Turnout is always a huge part of these things. there are some undecided voters out there, but a lot of the swing is due to who just bothers to show up.
    People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.

  17. #17
    Fab Five Doc's Avatar
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    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    Turnout will decide this race for sure. The Democrats have been counting on the anti-trump fervor but if that wanes between now and November they may have issues, esp. since the impeachment has helped stoke up Trump's base.

    Turnout is always a huge part of these things. there are some undecided voters out there, but a lot of the swing is due to who just bothers to show up.
    For me, I think the GOP will rely heavily on the Impeachment to flip the house and hold the senate. The House did NOTHING, absolutely nothing in the last 3 years that was not attached to getting rid of DJT. They wasted time, money and effort for NOTHING. They spent 3 years (and will continue) basically ignoring the governance of the country to work in opposition of his policies. I have no issue with a party, either side, opposing policies they disagree with. But the blanket oppose EVERYTHING and work to actively get rid of the president is bullcrap. The left did nothing for the betterment of the nation. Not a single policy enacted because from day one their pledge was IMPEACH, IMPEACH, IMPEACH. And when they were not impeaching they were looking for things to impeach. Without a house majority that goes away. The Republicans will run on that and it will resonate to the Right as well as independents and those in the middle. We want our government to work FOR US.
    Aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been.--David Bowie.

  18. #18

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Agree whole heartedly. DJT will run on that very fact too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    For me, I think the GOP will rely heavily on the Impeachment to flip the house and hold the senate. The House did NOTHING, absolutely nothing in the last 3 years that was not attached to getting rid of DJT. They wasted time, money and effort for NOTHING. They spent 3 years (and will continue) basically ignoring the governance of the country to work in opposition of his policies. I have no issue with a party, either side, opposing policies they disagree with. But the blanket oppose EVERYTHING and work to actively get rid of the president is bullcrap. The left did nothing for the betterment of the nation. Not a single policy enacted because from day one their pledge was IMPEACH, IMPEACH, IMPEACH. And when they were not impeaching they were looking for things to impeach. Without a house majority that goes away. The Republicans will run on that and it will resonate to the Right as well as independents and those in the middle. We want our government to work FOR US.

  19. #19

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    For me, I think the GOP will rely heavily on the Impeachment to flip the house and hold the senate. The House did NOTHING, absolutely nothing in the last 3 years that was not attached to getting rid of DJT. They wasted time, money and effort for NOTHING. They spent 3 years (and will continue) basically ignoring the governance of the country to work in opposition of his policies. I have no issue with a party, either side, opposing policies they disagree with. But the blanket oppose EVERYTHING and work to actively get rid of the president is bullcrap. The left did nothing for the betterment of the nation. Not a single policy enacted because from day one their pledge was IMPEACH, IMPEACH, IMPEACH. And when they were not impeaching they were looking for things to impeach. Without a house majority that goes away. The Republicans will run on that and it will resonate to the Right as well as independents and those in the middle. We want our government to work FOR US.
    This is simply not true. It’s proof just how well Trump’s false twitter campaign has worked. And that same talking point gets repeated on Fox News.
    The House has passed over 400 bills. The vast majority are sitting on Senate desks. Some are incredibly important bills.
    Here is just a partial list:

    Health care

    House Resolution 259 — Medicaid Extenders Act of 2019
    H.R. 271 — Condemning the Trump Administration’s Legal Campaign to Take Away Americans’ Health Care
    H.R. 986 — Protecting Americans with Preexisting Conditions Act of 2019
    H.R. 987 — Strengthening Health Care and Lowering Prescription Drug Costs Act
    H.R. 1520, the Purple Book Continuity Act (bill aimed at lowering the cost of prescription drugs)
    H.R. 1503, the Orange Book Transparency Act of 2019 (bill aimed at lowering the cost of prescription drugs)
    Civil rights

    H.R. 1 — For the People Act of 2019
    H.R. 5 — Equality Act
    H.R. 6 — American Dream and Promise Act
    H.R. 7 — Paycheck Fairness Act
    H.R. 124 — Expressing opposition to banning service in the Armed Forces by openly transgender individuals
    Gun control

    H.R. 8 — Bipartisan Background Checks Act of 2019
    H.R. 1112 — Enhanced Background Checks Act of 2019
    Environment

    H.R. 9 — Climate Action Now Act
    H.R. 1331 — Local Water Protection Act
    S. 47 — National Resources Management Act
    H.R. 2578 — National Flood Insurance Program Extension Act of 2019
    H.R. 205, 1146, 1941 — Banning Offshore Drilling on Atlantic, Pacific, Eastern Gulf and ANWR Coasts
    Military/foreign affairs

    H.R. 840 — Veterans’ Access to Child Care Act
    H.J. Res. 37 — Directing the removal of United States Armed Forces from hostilities in the Republic of Yemen that have not been authorized by Congress
    S.J. Res. 7 — To direct the removal of United States Armed Forces from hostilities in the Republic of Yemen that have not been authorized by Congress
    H.R. 31 — Caesar Syria Civilian Protection Act of 2019
    H.J. Res. 30 — Disapproving the President’s proposal to take an action relating to the application of certain sanctions with respect to the Russian Federation
    H.R. 4695 — Protect Against Conflict by Turkey Act
    H.R. 676 — NATO Support Act
    H.R. 549 — Venezuela TPS Act
    Mueller report

    H. Con. Res. 24 — Expressing the sense of Congress that the report of Special Counsel Mueller should be made available to the public and to Congress
    Other major legislation

    H.R. 1585 — Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act of 2019
    H.R. 987 — Raise the Wage Act
    H.R. 1500 — Consumers First Act
    H.R. 1994 — SECURE Act/Gold Star Family Tax Relief Act
    H.R. 2722 — Securing America’s Federal Elections (SAFE) Act
    H.R. 4617 — Stopping Harmful Interference in Elections for a Lasting Democracy (SHIELD) Act
    H.R. 1644 — Save the Internet Act of 2019
    H.R. 2157 — Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2019
    H.R. 397 — Rehabilitation for Multiemployer Pensions Act (The Butch Lewis Act)
    H.R. 2513 — The Corporate Transparency Act
    H.R. 269 — Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness and Advancing Innovation Act of 2019
    H.R. 251 — Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards Program Extension Act
    S.24 — Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019
    H.R. 430 — TANF Extension Act of 2019
    Concurring in the Senate Amendments to HR 251 — Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standard Program Extension Act
    H.R. 790 — Federal Civilian Workforce Pay Raise Fairness Act of 2019
    HJ Res. 46 — Relating to a national emergency declared by the President on February 15, 2019
    H Res. 183 — Condemning anti-Semitism as hateful expressions of intolerance that are contradictory to the values and aspirations that define the people of the United States and condemning anti-Muslim discrimination and bigotry against minorities as hateful expressions of intolerance that are contrary to the values and aspirations of the United States, as amended
    H Res. 194 — Rule Providing for Consideration of H.R. 1644 and H.R. 2021
    H.R. 2480 — Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act
    H.R. 375 — To amend the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 to reaffirm the authority of the Secretary of the Interior to take land into trust for Indian Tribes (also known as the “Carcieri Fix”)

  20. #20

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Puma,

    How many of those bills ever had a chance to pass the Senate? Do you consider "H.R. 271 — Condemning the Trump Administration’s Legal Campaign to Take Away Americans’ Health Care" to be a useful use of their time given the Senate makeup?

    Look at their bills. Both sides have proposed bills on Medicare/Medicaid spending on drugs, but they differ significantly. But bills on gun control in your list? The "Voting Rights Act" bill that reverses the SCOTUS decisions where the GOP states won?

    That's doing work, but, much like impeachment, it's work they know will never be passed into law. It's political work, putting the bills up so they can show them to their base.

    They passed legislation that they knew would by and large not find bipartisan support, as did the Senate. There's some out there on both sides that really should have passed without issue, but both sides are entrenched in not giving any "points" to the other. the new NAFTA only passed b/c of union pressure on the Democrats, or it would be sitting there as well.

    But that conclusion above has nothing to do with Trump's twitter account. Don't be pulled into thinking everyone on this other side of the aisle is just a rube for Trump's false claims. That's not accurate.

    The truth is the Democrats did choose as a matter of politics to highlight their resistance, not their policy agenda. You won't find most of those bills covered by even their own media very much, and it certainly isn't where they hung their hats in terms of exposure.

    The conclusion they are all about resistance is one they wanted to create for their base, and it worked, and worked so well everyone including their own media has focused on it almost exclusively. The question is whether that helps or hurts them.

    Meanwhile the GOP has made IMO the same mistake, by not focusing on legislation people care about and sending that all to the House and letting them table it for the same reasons. They did some, but not enough.

    To Mitch's credit what the Senate has done is get judges appointed, and that will count for a lot with conservative voters. But they missed their chance to pass a number of bills on things like health care and prescriptions etc. and then let the House either choke on them or vote them and give Trump a "win" in image.

    Yes they passed some things, even some I would support, as did the Senate, but for 3 years the Democrats have intentionally defined themselves as being "against Trump" more than "For X", and that's on them.

    And in fairness, nothing much was going to get passed at this point. We're far too divided to find common ground right now on most topics, and as a Libertarian I'm fine when Congress doesn't pass many laws. We're all better off the less they "accomplish".

    But Mitch was wise to use his time in the Senate for the one thing he can do that the House can't stop: fill the judicial appointments. That has taken a big part of his Senate scheduling and that's a win for his side, so it's a smart move.
    People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.

  21. #21

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Just to look, here's a Politifact summary of Pelosi's 8 top priorities that are languishing in the Senate:
    Beyond that, Pelosi’s letter cited eight of the House bills McConnell has stalled in the Senate:
    • The For The People Act would make Election Day a federal holiday, expand voter registration, restrict the removal of voters from voter rolls, and create programs to encourage small-dollar political donations.
    • The Bipartisan Background Checks Act would ban the private transfer of firearms without a licensed background check.
    • The Paycheck Fairness Act would strengthen penalties for employers that discriminate on the basis of gender.
    • The VAWA Reauthorization Act would reauthorize the 1994 Violence Against Women Act, which protects victims on domestic violence, for five years.
    • The Climate Action Now Act would prohibit the use of federal money to withdraw the United States from the Paris Agreement on climate change.

    • The Equality Act would protect LGBTQ people from discrimination in housing, the workplace and public accommodations.

    • The Dream and Promise Act would grant certain young undocumented immigrants who came to the United States as children a path to permanent residency status.

    • The Raise the Wage Act would bring the minimum wage to $15 per hour after six years.

    https://www.politifact.com/article/2...s-impeachment/

    So we have the $15 Minimum wage, granting citizenship to DACA immigrants, Singling out LGBTQSZIWKA for non-discrimination (they are already a protected class I believe since both gender and sexual orientation are protected), blocking the US from withdrawing from the Paris Accord, universal gun background checks, an act to help Democrats get more votes at the polls and leave dead people able to vote.

    The only one on there is the Violence Against Women act, but I'm betting since it's sitting there it has a poison pill or two in there somewhere. But maybe not.

    But does anyone seriously expect this legislative agenda to be picked up by Mitch in the Senate?

    I notice Pelosi didn't pick 8 bills that had possibility of passing, but 8 bills they want put out there for political reasons knowing they will never pass the Senate.

    That's how the game is played, and that's 90% of what "gets done" in DC. Which is why we need a whole new group of people in DC.
    Last edited by CitizenBBN; 02-10-2020 at 05:18 PM.
    People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.

  22. #22

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post

    And in fairness, nothing much was going to get passed at this point. We're far too divided to find common ground right now on most topics, and as a Libertarian I'm fine when Congress doesn't pass many laws. We're all better off the less they "accomplish".

    But Mitch was wise to use his time in the Senate for the one thing he can do that the House can't stop: fill the judicial appointments. That has taken a big part of his Senate scheduling and that's a win for his side, so it's a smart move.
    That is exactly the point. There was going to be very little passed in a Congress this divided. But to say the House has done nothing except Impeachment is not accurate.
    They have passed over 400 bills. Some have had no chance of being passed as you said. MANY should have been passed as they have bi-partisan support. But these Dems were elected to the House on passing this exact type of legislation. They are doing what they were elected to do. They weren’t elected to send the Republican controlled Senate bills they would agree with.
    And you said it, Mitch's primary focus has been on getting judges through, not passing legislation. Which is exactly why saying the impeachment has been the ONLY thing the House has done just isn't true.
    Sure, say the House and Senate should work together more. Sure, say they should pass bills that might actually get through. Sure, say the Senate has focused more on judges. That is all true.
    But none of those are the same as saying they have "done nothing" except for impeachment.
    Last edited by ukpumacat; 02-10-2020 at 07:33 PM.

  23. #23

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithKSR View Post
    The biggest Iowa story is not making the headlines that it should. Turnout was expected to be 300,000; but was only 176,000.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/09/u...democrats.html
    Yep, I agree.
    ~Puma~

  24. #24
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    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    My favorite is make election day a National Holiday. Really? Which election days? We have primaries, runoffs, elections. That's in addition to local elections and special called elections. Most working people get reasonable time off to vote. Make that a law. Give people another paid holiday it won't be spent at the polls. It will be vacation time.
    Real Fan since 1958

  25. #25

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithKSR View Post
    The biggest Iowa story is not making the headlines that it should. Turnout was expected to be 300,000; but was only 176,000.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/09/u...democrats.html
    Btw, I expect NH turnout to continue this trend. I think a lot of voters are simply confused on who to vote for.
    But it’s not indicative of turnout in the general. I expect that to be record turnout on both sides.
    This Dem primary will likely come down to who drops out and when.
    If Biden drops out, it gives Pete a huge boost.
    If Warren does, Bernie gets a huge boost.
    This could be similar to the Republican primary in 2016. Trump had his base supporters (Bernie) and the anti-Trumpers split their vote. And none would drop out.
    That’s Bernie’s best shot.

  26. #26

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    I think the Dems drop out quicker, their money is already shaky.

    It will leave Pete, Bernie and Bloomberg. Now, if neither Pete nor Bloomberg flinch then they could split the more mainstream vote and help Bernie just like with Trump.

    But b/c of the proportional delegate system this election this will be an open convention, and in the end I think Pete gets it but with major concessions in platform to Sanders. The question is how much Bloomberg is willing to bring his billions to bear on that convention process, but Sanders will be hardpressed to cave to Pete, and will never compromise with Bloomberg.

    It's always been a candidate like Pete or Beto who were the biggest threat to beat Trump. Fairly mainstream but still liberal, outsiders with lots of unknowns, good looking, classic politicians who never really answer a question. The dems will push for Pete over the other options.

    Mayor Pete will be tough to beat IMO. He has the warts and policy positions to be beat but the media will hide them well, and he's got that "I have a dream" answer to everything down to questions about directions to the gas station down pat. Given he wont' get tough questions that will be enough to cover him till November.

    Hopefully I'm wrong and Bernie wins it. That will be a hoot, and a Trump win.
    People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.

  27. #27

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    I think the Dems drop out quicker, their money is already shaky.

    It will leave Pete, Bernie and Bloomberg. Now, if neither Pete nor Bloomberg flinch then they could split the more mainstream vote and help Bernie just like with Trump.

    But b/c of the proportional delegate system this election this will be an open convention, and in the end I think Pete gets it but with major concessions in platform to Sanders. The question is how much Bloomberg is willing to bring his billions to bear on that convention process, but Sanders will be hardpressed to cave to Pete, and will never compromise with Bloomberg.

    It's always been a candidate like Pete or Beto who were the biggest threat to beat Trump. Fairly mainstream but still liberal, outsiders with lots of unknowns, good looking, classic politicians who never really answer a question. The dems will push for Pete over the other options.

    Mayor Pete will be tough to beat IMO. He has the warts and policy positions to be beat but the media will hide them well, and he's got that "I have a dream" answer to everything down to questions about directions to the gas station down pat. Given he wont' get tough questions that will be enough to cover him till November.

    Hopefully I'm wrong and Bernie wins it. That will be a hoot, and a Trump win.
    I hope you are right. Ha

    I think Bernie may win the nomination and like you, I think Trump beats him.
    ~Puma~

  28. #28

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    lol I hope I'm wrong and Bernie wins it. Bloomberg is my 2nd choice. He can stand up to Trump no doubt, but the Sanders/Warren wing of the party won't go vote for him very hard.

    Bernie does have some appeal to disaffected blue collar types though, which is Trump's base, but I don't think he'd eat into them too much. Bloomberg wouldn't at all.

    In the end this comes down to states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, etc. Honestly Trump is in a fight no matter who wins, but sanders isn't as appealing in policy or persona as Pete would be.
    People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back.

  29. #29

    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    lol I hope I'm wrong and Bernie wins it. Bloomberg is my 2nd choice. He can stand up to Trump no doubt, but the Sanders/Warren wing of the party won't go vote for him very hard.

    Bernie does have some appeal to disaffected blue collar types though, which is Trump's base, but I don't think he'd eat into them too much. Bloomberg wouldn't at all.

    In the end this comes down to states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, etc. Honestly Trump is in a fight no matter who wins, but sanders isn't as appealing in policy or persona as Pete would be.
    I agree. And its overtly obvious that Trump wants Bernie to win. He keeps tweeting about the Dems "stealing the election again". Which is very smart because he knows some of Bernie's voters will either stay home or vote for anyone but the nominee if Bernie doesn't win.
    Trump attacks Biden. He attacks Warren. He attacks Bernie. But he stays almost silent on Pete. That tells me all I need to know.
    ~Puma~

  30. #30
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    Re: Iowa, for all issues, just cut through to some truth

    Quote Originally Posted by ukpumacat View Post
    This is simply not true. It’s proof just how well Trump’s false twitter campaign has worked. And that same talking point gets repeated on Fox News.
    The House has passed over 400 bills. The vast majority are sitting on Senate desks. Some are incredibly important bills.
    Here is just a partial list:

    Health care

    House Resolution 259 — Medicaid Extenders Act of 2019
    H.R. 271 — Condemning the Trump Administration’s Legal Campaign to Take Away Americans’ Health Care
    H.R. 986 — Protecting Americans with Preexisting Conditions Act of 2019
    H.R. 987 — Strengthening Health Care and Lowering Prescription Drug Costs Act
    H.R. 1520, the Purple Book Continuity Act (bill aimed at lowering the cost of prescription drugs)
    H.R. 1503, the Orange Book Transparency Act of 2019 (bill aimed at lowering the cost of prescription drugs)
    Civil rights

    H.R. 1 — For the People Act of 2019
    H.R. 5 — Equality Act
    H.R. 6 — American Dream and Promise Act
    H.R. 7 — Paycheck Fairness Act
    H.R. 124 — Expressing opposition to banning service in the Armed Forces by openly transgender individuals
    Gun control

    H.R. 8 — Bipartisan Background Checks Act of 2019
    H.R. 1112 — Enhanced Background Checks Act of 2019
    Environment

    H.R. 9 — Climate Action Now Act
    H.R. 1331 — Local Water Protection Act
    S. 47 — National Resources Management Act
    H.R. 2578 — National Flood Insurance Program Extension Act of 2019
    H.R. 205, 1146, 1941 — Banning Offshore Drilling on Atlantic, Pacific, Eastern Gulf and ANWR Coasts
    Military/foreign affairs

    H.R. 840 — Veterans’ Access to Child Care Act
    H.J. Res. 37 — Directing the removal of United States Armed Forces from hostilities in the Republic of Yemen that have not been authorized by Congress
    S.J. Res. 7 — To direct the removal of United States Armed Forces from hostilities in the Republic of Yemen that have not been authorized by Congress
    H.R. 31 — Caesar Syria Civilian Protection Act of 2019
    H.J. Res. 30 — Disapproving the President’s proposal to take an action relating to the application of certain sanctions with respect to the Russian Federation
    H.R. 4695 — Protect Against Conflict by Turkey Act
    H.R. 676 — NATO Support Act
    H.R. 549 — Venezuela TPS Act
    Mueller report

    H. Con. Res. 24 — Expressing the sense of Congress that the report of Special Counsel Mueller should be made available to the public and to Congress
    Other major legislation

    H.R. 1585 — Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act of 2019
    H.R. 987 — Raise the Wage Act
    H.R. 1500 — Consumers First Act
    H.R. 1994 — SECURE Act/Gold Star Family Tax Relief Act
    H.R. 2722 — Securing America’s Federal Elections (SAFE) Act
    H.R. 4617 — Stopping Harmful Interference in Elections for a Lasting Democracy (SHIELD) Act
    H.R. 1644 — Save the Internet Act of 2019
    H.R. 2157 — Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2019
    H.R. 397 — Rehabilitation for Multiemployer Pensions Act (The Butch Lewis Act)
    H.R. 2513 — The Corporate Transparency Act
    H.R. 269 — Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness and Advancing Innovation Act of 2019
    H.R. 251 — Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards Program Extension Act
    S.24 — Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019
    H.R. 430 — TANF Extension Act of 2019
    Concurring in the Senate Amendments to HR 251 — Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standard Program Extension Act
    H.R. 790 — Federal Civilian Workforce Pay Raise Fairness Act of 2019
    HJ Res. 46 — Relating to a national emergency declared by the President on February 15, 2019
    H Res. 183 — Condemning anti-Semitism as hateful expressions of intolerance that are contradictory to the values and aspirations that define the people of the United States and condemning anti-Muslim discrimination and bigotry against minorities as hateful expressions of intolerance that are contrary to the values and aspirations of the United States, as amended
    H Res. 194 — Rule Providing for Consideration of H.R. 1644 and H.R. 2021
    H.R. 2480 — Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act
    H.R. 375 — To amend the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 to reaffirm the authority of the Secretary of the Interior to take land into trust for Indian Tribes (also known as the “Carcieri Fix”)
    yes, some stunningly important legislation there. Some of my favorites are

    *Condemning the Trump Administration’s Legal Campaign to Take Away Americans’ Health Care

    *the Mueller report.

    *Disapproving the President’s proposal to take an action relating to the application of certain sanctions with respect to the Russian Federation

    *Expressing the sense of Congress that the report of Special Counsel Mueller should be made available to the public and to Congress
    Other major legislation

    So much for tending to "the people's business"


    EDIT: clearly I posted before reading the entire thread, as Chuck points out most are partisan Liberal talking points bills that had zero chance of passing and were nothing more than political gambits.
    Last edited by Doc; 02-11-2020 at 02:16 PM.
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