Bevin loses

[KSRBEvans]

GOP is a deep-red Presidential state, controls the state Senate, state House, wins every statewide office...and Bevin loses.

He got over 100,000 fewer votes than the GOP AG candidate did in his win tonight.

How bad a candidate do you have to be to squander those advantages?

[Catfan73]

He spent the last 4 years pissing off every teacher in the state, along with a lot of other people. A little less of that and he would have won handily.

Looks like he’s not going to go quietly either. He needs to go ahead and concede; he just barely lost. It’s not a good look.

[Catonahottinroof]

And while he pissed them off, he did more to benefit them than the the past 5 governors by full funding their pensions. It looks like he bought their pension about an extra 8-10 years of solvency. I’m curious if Beshear part deux continues that. I believe he will push expanded gaming as a funding source as his father did.

GOP is a deep-red Presidential state, controls the state Senate, state House, wins every statewide office...and Bevin loses.

He got over 100,000 fewer votes than the GOP AG candidate did in his win tonight.

How bad a candidate do you have to be to squander those advantages?

[KSRBEvans]

He spent the last 4 years pissing off every teacher in the state, along with a lot of other people. A little less of that and he would have won handily.

Looks like he’s not going to go quietly either. He needs to go ahead and concede; he just barely lost. It’s not a good look.

I have a friend who was an appointed official in the Bevin administration. He was asked to do something he considered unethical and he refused to do it. Instead of asking for his resignation, which he would've given, he came to work one morning to find his office locked, his stuff sitting in a box outside the door, someone waiting with a letter advising him of his firing and 2 security personnel there to escort him out. You might say that was a one-off, but something similar happened to a college classmate of mine who also served in state government.

And these were people who were not his opponents. I just think he was very bad at a lot of the things that an elected official needs to do to consolidate support.

[Catonahottinroof]

42K teachers in the state. A 5K vote difference in the election. That segment of voters ousted him.

[CitizenBBN]

And while he pissed them off, he did more to benefit them than the the past 5 governors by full funding their pensions. It looks like he bought their pension about an extra 8-10 years of solvency. I’m curious if Beshear part deux continues that. I believe he will push expanded gaming as a funding source as his father did.

I assume he'll do like his daddy. Promise the moon, not come up with the money to pay for it, slap himself on the back for a job well done and kick the problem down the road.

[Doc]

I guess I am unique in I care little about gubernatorial races except for the state I reside. I believe governors make little difference in national politics

[Catonahottinroof]

I have similar thoughts on this with the exception of the teacher pension. Both of my parents are retired from JCPS. If their pension becomes insolvent that will be an issue for me personally.

I guess I am unique in I care little about gubernatorial races except for the state I reside. I believe governors make little difference in national politics

[UKHistory]

It speaks to his unpopularity in a deeply conservative state withTrump supporting that he barely got beat.

That says how bad Bevin was. He is not from here and it showed. He put an ugly face on conservatism. But it says how conservative the state Isherwood almost won.

[CitizenBBN]

It speaks to his unpopularity in a deeply conservative state withTrump supporting that he barely got beat.

That says how bad Bevin was. He is not from here and it showed. He put an ugly face on conservatism. But it says how conservative the state Isherwood almost won.

Agreed.

Some will spin this as some kind of read on Trump, etc., but it's really about the candidate. Bevin is just unlikable and never built any consensus on anything, esp. the pension issue.

In that sense he's a lot like Hillary. A big part of her inherent problem is that she just seemed unlikable, and when she tried to connect with people on some relaxed level it just felt forced. Bevin is just not a guy people like.

And even with that, had the Libertarian candidate not been in it he still would have likely won. If he hadn't pissed off every teacher in the state, and there's some question as to whether that was rightly or wrongly, he would have won.

The GOP pretty much swept every other race. The only failure was that Bevin as a person just isn't someone people like.

[Catonahottinroof]

He’s not warm and fuzzy based on what he spouts off. I’m convinced teachers were the swing votes that sunk him. Rather than chastising the political leadership of the teachers he singled them out, on multiple occasions too.
A red candidate will never have a better setup than he had either running for re-election. The son of the prior governor who spent the state into oblivion. Name recognition gave Beshear two strikes already. Bevin throws an eephus pitch that gets hit out of the park by the use of his insults.
Per the US debt clock site, Kentucky’s debt liabilities are around $39B per the debt clock for the state. His administration made a bit of ground bettering that number and the taxpayers obligation per person. It’s still bad, but better.
It’s up to Beshear to keep it even at a minimum. I’m not sure he can given the promises he’s made and if he follows through with them.

[CitizenBBN]

Beshear wont' get anything done b/c the GOP won't support it in the legislature. It will be 4 years of deadlock and positioning setting up for the next election.

[Catonahottinroof]

That’s if the legislature doesn’t flip on their next election. Still he’s treading upstream. He didn’t even win a 50% majority although very close to it.

[Catfan73]

While I firmly believe that the teachers mobilizing is what cost Bevin re-election, I do think there are some lessons both parties can take away from this election, chiefly the risks of trying to govern through party ideology instead of the concerns of your particular constituency. Messing around with retirement benefits and Medicaid needs to be removed from the Republican plank. Once you give someone something they don’t like to give it back.

[CitizenBBN]

While I firmly believe that the teachers mobilizing is what cost Bevin re-election, I do think there are some lessons both parties can take away from this election, chiefly the risks of trying to govern through party ideology instead of the concerns of your particular constituency. Messing around with retirement benefits and Medicaid needs to be removed from the Republican plank. Once you give someone something they don’t like to give it back.

Politically that's sound, but the state, and all the states, are facing massive deficits due to those promised benefits.

In the end we have to be able to afford what was promised, and by and large we can't.

Any company that did what kentucky did by promising and then not funding pensions would be shut down and the officers in jail. Politicians promised checks they couldn't back up.

Bevin mishandled it badly, as did the state GOP, but their basic point isn't wrong. Everyone wants their money but no one wants to pay taxes to fund it.

Way too many Americans seem to think government largess just comes magically from the sky and not from our own wallets. There is no "government revenue". It's just our money being taken by the government for whatever purpose it goes to, but it's all our money, and the more we want from government the more they just have to rob Peter to pay Paul.

[bigsky]

Here’s to the Libertarian candidate. Republicans think they lost votes? Well now what?

[UKHistory]

The Commonwealth's tax base must be grown. Ideally that is more businesses coming to Kentucky creating jobs.

Whether it is public or private sector jobs, Kentucky, like many states, needs greater access to revenue streams.

The poorer the state or community, the greater likelihood of graft and corruption. Or atleast its consequences are worse.

[CitizenBBN]

Beshear won't get it done. Old school good ol' boy politics. They all fight over the pie, but never grow it.

No Kentucky Governor has really gone after economic growth and recruiting that investment since Martha Lane. I remember all that bitching about giving a big corporation tax breaks, how unfair it was. these days I ask those people if they want Toyota to pack up and leave. They don't say much.

If anything were losing equine business by thinking it's a taxable cash cow, while New York and Florida hand out money to bring the horses to their state.

Then you have Lexington, which is about as pro business as Che Guevarra. They'd tax bowel movements if they could figure out how to rig the toilets to count them.

[kingcat]

Beshear won't get it done. Old school good ol' boy politics. They all fight over the pie, but never grow it.

No Kentucky Governor has really gone after economic growth and recruiting that investment since Martha Lane. I remember all that bitching about giving a big corporation tax breaks, how unfair it was. these days I ask those people if they want Toyota to pack up and leave. They don't say much.

If anything were losing equine business by thinking it's a taxable cash cow, while New York and Florida hand out money to bring the horses to their state.

Then you have Lexington, which is about as pro business as Che Guevarra. They'd tax bowel movements if they could figure out how to rig the toilets to count them.

hehe. Very explanatory

[homey4uk]

Beshear won't get it done. Old school good ol' boy politics. They all fight over the pie, but never grow it.

No Kentucky Governor has really gone after economic growth and recruiting that investment since Martha Lane. I remember all that bitching about giving a big corporation tax breaks, how unfair it was. these days I ask those people if they want Toyota to pack up and leave. They don't say much.

If anything were losing equine business by thinking it's a taxable cash cow, while New York and Florida hand out money to bring the horses to their state.

Then you have Lexington, which is about as pro business as Che Guevarra. They'd tax bowel movements if they could figure out how to rig the toilets to count them.

Love the quote about toilet bowls! How bourbon (and liquor in general) can be so profitable and Kentucky have financial issues confuses many people. But they forget for the most part, these aren't labor intensive (as in huge numbers of employees) businesses and much of it continues to become more robot, less human. With coal getting killed by Obama (and not resurrected as promised by Trump yet but much of that is out of his hands) the question is what can be done to help Appalachia? I agree Bevin was Bevin's second worst enemy, but without the almost complete complicity and misinformation from the media, Beshear wouldn't have stood a chance. Bevin wasn't the greatest communicator but he was savaged constantly by the media and most folks won't take the time to actually research issues, they'll simply believe whatever they hear from the same station that watch every single day at 6 or 11. Speaking as a conservatarian, I don't know if we have a prayer in the future if we don't make some inroads into education. When teachers who don't personally agree with a single plank in the Democratic platform will still vote for a Democrat, simply because their union tells them to, that proves they aren't gonna have the fortitude to fight the liberal agenda they are forced to indoctrinate our children with (rather than actually educate them, which should be their job. Teach the kids HOW to think, not WHAT to think). And that's scary.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[kingcat]

In general, teachers are a precious group of people. And perhaps, how to think is a matter of fact, and not opinion. The right likes to fake a moral high ground (as much or moreso than the left), but indoctrination is just as prevalent on the right as the left. Yet certainly, if one supports it, they will tend to disagree.
That is about the only fact of the matter.

A teacher has to be a moderate and teach children what their parents may refuse to teach when it is supported by facts. A huge portion of society itself is indoctrinated by which news outlet they watch, it's "personalities", and its service the political stance they have dedicated themselves to. And so would gladly subvert education to propagate whatever achieves their desired result. Even absent truth and knowledge

Plus now with the growth of social media, a brainwashing effect, supported by outlandish theory and mistrust, is being perpetrated on adult individuals daily. Anyone who honestly looks at it in an objective manor knows this.
And yet many such individuals do not care if the truth is served or not.

Teachers are the most educated in our society and some of the most caring people there are. And the least likely to have an agenda void of the truth.

[Catonahottinroof]

Agreed. And Bevin belittled some of the most long suffering, underpaid people in the State. Rather than selling what he did do for them, namely extending the life of their pension a few years, he called them names and acted like they didn’t know what they were fighting for....also went after them for the sick outs legally. Good luck trying to win that voting block.

In general, teachers are a precious group of people. And perhaps, how to think is a matter of fact, and not opinion. The right likes to fake a moral high ground (as much or moreso than the left), but indoctrination is just as prevalent on the right as the left. Yet certainly, if one supports it, they will tend to disagree.
That is about the only fact of the matter.

A teacher has to be a moderate and teach children what their parents may refuse to teach when it is supported by facts. A huge portion of society itself is indoctrinated by which news outlet they watch, it's "personalities", and its service the political stance they have dedicated themselves to. And so would gladly subvert education to propagate whatever achieves their desired result. Even absent truth and knowledge

Plus now with the growth of social media, a brainwashing effect, supported by outlandish theory and mistrust, is being perpetrated on adult individuals daily. Anyone who honestly looks at it in an objective manor knows this.
And yet many such individuals do not care if the truth is served or not.

Teachers are the most educated in our society and some of the most caring people there are. And the least likely to have an agenda void of the truth.

[kingcat]

Political stuff aside, I just know a lot of teachers and appreciate what they do.
And go through to do it.

I just hate to see them disparaged. For every bad egg in that profession there are probably fifty dedicated individuals.

I wish I could go back and personally thank every one that tried to help me through adolescence and beyond. Their effort became clearer as I've aged, and in most cases they never saw the positive results of that effort.

I seriously feel am in debt to them.

[Catfan73]

Political stuff aside, I just know a lot of teachers and appreciate what they do.
And go through to do it.

I just hate to see them disparaged. For every bad egg in that profession there are probably fifty dedicated individuals.

I wish I could go back and personally thank every one that tried to help me through adolescence and beyond. Their effort became clearer as I've aged, and in most cases they never saw the positive results of that effort.

I seriously feel am in debt to them.

Ditto.

[Doc]

Political stuff aside, I just know a lot of teachers and appreciate what they do.
And go through to do it.

I just hate to see them disparaged. For every bad egg in that profession there are probably fifty dedicated individuals.

I wish I could go back and personally thank every one that tried to help me through adolescence and beyond. Their effort became clearer as I've aged, and in most cases they never saw the positive results of that effort.

I seriously feel am in debt to them.

I don't disagree but:

I wish I had a job that was 9 months long and had a work day from 7:00 am till 2:30 pm with an hour lunch....and expected to be paid like a full time employee, get benefits like a full time employee. No doubt teachers are underappreciated but its not as bad as they make it.

But the real issue is that politicians make promises to cater to them but put the consequences onto future administrations. That is the whole thing with these pension funds and ALL government employees. The teacher union or the fire fighters or the police etc all will pledge their support if they are promised benefits like a pension plan that can't possible work. Politicians promise them knowing full well it won't be their problem as they will be long out of office. You know my wife works for the fed gov't. Same deal. She started 30 yrs ago and is coming upon retirement. The stuff she gets after retiring is LUDICRIOUS because when she started the job she was promised by somebody in office 30 years ago. To me, this is why all pensions should be PRIVATE because the FEDERAL or MUNICIPAL ones lack any immediate accountability. It appears Bevins attempted to address this and shockingly the teachers didn't like it. Duh....they were promised pie in the sky that was not affordably by somebody willing to sacrifice a future politician who could no longer kick the can down the road

[Catonahottinroof]

Their job isn’t quite 7:00-2:30. A bit too simplistic Doc. Nearly every teacher has some kind of hall/bus/detention duty and admin work after that last bell rings. Both of my parents are retired from JCPS. Both taught vocational high school kids and were rarely ever home before 5:00pm and their last bell was at 2:20pm. Commute was 15 minutes for both. Dad to Southern HS, mom to Ahrens Trade school. Neither had any more than 30 minutes for lunch either. What you see may differ in Florida but I can tell you from both of my parents, neither had the schedule you laid out there.
When you factor in service days prior to this school year starting, they both had 6-7 weeks off in the summer. Dad taught summer school for 4 weeks, so he had 3 weeks off per summer while my mother had 6-7 weeks.

I don't disagree but:

I wish I had a job that was 9 months long and had a work day from 7:00 am till 2:30 pm with an hour lunch....and expected to be paid like a full time employee, get benefits like a full time employee. No doubt teachers are underappreciated but its not as bad as they make it.

But the real issue is that politicians make promises to cater to them but put the consequences onto future administrations. That is the whole thing with these pension funds and ALL government employees. The teacher union or the fire fighters or the police etc all will pledge their support if they are promised benefits like a pension plan that can't possible work. Politicians promise them knowing full well it won't be their problem as they will be long out of office. You know my wife works for the fed gov't. Same deal. She started 30 yrs ago and is coming upon retirement. The stuff she gets after retiring is LUDICRIOUS because when she started the job she was promised by somebody in office 30 years ago. To me, this is why all pensions should be PRIVATE because the FEDERAL or MUNICIPAL ones lack any immediate accountability. It appears Bevins attempted to address this and shockingly the teachers didn't like it. Duh....they were promised pie in the sky that was not affordably by somebody willing to sacrifice a future politician who could no longer kick the can down the road

[ukpumacat]

I am not trying to be pessimistic, BUT...

The Education system in general is a wreck. And it will likely never be fixed. The teachers union is simply too strong to fight and because (as Kingcat said) teachers DO mean a lot to us...people rarely ever vote against the union.

Any criticism of the system always gets twisted as an assault on teachers.

I can't begin to express how close I am to this situation so assure you I am not speaking out of ignorance. Just like most big government enterprises, the amount of waste, etc is abhorrent.

As per salaries, etc: I think teachers start being paid too little and finish being paid too much. Especially with their pensions.

I've frankly never understood why Teachers, Firefighters and Police Officers get discounts everywhere. Many many people would work those jobs if they could get one (especially Firefighters and Police Officers). I have close friends and family who do all of these jobs, and I am very thankful for them.
But I am also terribly thankful for the trash guy that takes my waste every week. And he isn't getting a movie discount. Or the guy/gal who keeps my lights on. Or the ones who do just about anything frankly.

My issue is largely with schools districts (and state/national policies) and not teachers or schools themselves.

[ukpumacat]

Their job isn’t quite 7:00-2:30. A bit too simplistic Doc. Nearly every teacher has some kind of hall/bus/detention duty and admin work after that last bell rings. Both of my parents are retired from JCPS. Both taught vocational high school kids and were rarely ever home before 5:00pm and their last bell was at 2:20pm. Commute was 15 minutes for both. Dad to Southern HS, mom to Ahrens Trade school. Neither had any more than 30 minutes for lunch either. What you see may differ in Florida but I can tell you from both of my parents, neither had the schedule you laid out there.
When you factor in service days prior to this school year starting, they both had 6-7 weeks off in the summer. Dad taught summer school for 4 weeks, so he had 3 weeks off per summer while my mother had 6-7 weeks.

No doubt. A teachers job is more difficult than many understand. Your summary didn't even include papers to be graded at home, etc.
At the same time, Doc isn't wrong in spirit. Many many people would love to have even 6-7 weeks off in the summer, one week at Thanksgiving, 2 weeks off at Christmas, and One week for Spring Break on top of every Federal Holiday.
Both are true imo.
Yes, teachers work really hard and their value is immense.
Yes, they also have a great gig with tons of time off and wonderful benefits/pensions.

[Doc]

Their job isn’t quite 7:00-2:30. A bit too simplistic Doc. Nearly every teacher has some kind of hall/bus/detention duty and admin work after that last bell rings. Both of my parents are retired from JCPS. Both taught vocational high school kids and were rarely ever home before 5:00pm and their last bell was at 2:20pm. Commute was 15 minutes for both. Dad to Southern HS, mom to Ahrens Trade school. Neither had any more than 30 minutes for lunch either. What you see may differ in Florida but I can tell you from both of my parents, neither had the schedule you laid out there.
When you factor in service days prior to this school year starting, they both had 6-7 weeks off in the summer. Dad taught summer school for 4 weeks, so he had 3 weeks off per summer while my mother had 6-7 weeks.

I would love to be home by 5:00 including my commute. I once worked 45 min from work but never figure that as part of my work day. also 6-7 weeks of vacation isn't a bad gig, huh? I get 4 weeks which is pretty generous... and that was not from the first year. Started as 2 weeks paid after my first FULL year (not a day sooner). Unfortunately I don't get labor day, veteran day, a week at "spring break", don't get 2 weeks for Xmas/Haunaka/Quanzi/New years as paid days off either (I do get Xmas day and New Years day but not the 2 weeks unless I take vacation days). And when up north, on snowy days, I had to work those too. And of course there is the week end workers which excludes educators (this from somebody who early in their career worked 51 of 52 weekends in a year).
--PS to add that I posted before reading Puma's reply so no, I didn't plagerize

Still, nothing against teachers at all. Personally I believe you get paid what you can get. I don't begrudge anybody for making $$ and as much $$ as they can. Teaching is tough, especially when you get to HS, and nowdays more to middle school. Lots of non-educational things to deal with. The pension issues is that it was something offered and negotiated for, but the people offering don't have to pay for it, but I do begrudge the "woe is me" attitude that is often spewed. You knew the demands of the jobs when you took it. I hope they knew the pay rate. There should not be any I was taken advantage of or I am underappreciated. I would be great to pay every teacher 150K a year but fiscal responsibility and career choices are what they are.

[Doc]

I am not trying to be pessimistic, BUT...

The Education system in general is a wreck. And it will likely never be fixed. The teachers union is simply too strong to fight and because (as Kingcat said) teachers DO mean a lot to us...people rarely ever vote against the union.

Any criticism of the system always gets twisted as an assault on teachers.

I can't begin to express how close I am to this situation so assure you I am not speaking out of ignorance. Just like most big government enterprises, the amount of waste, etc is abhorrent.

As per salaries, etc: I think teachers start being paid too little and finish being paid too much. Especially with their pensions.

I've frankly never understood why Teachers, Firefighters and Police Officers get discounts everywhere. Many many people would work those jobs if they could get one (especially Firefighters and Police Officers). I have close friends and family who do all of these jobs, and I am very thankful for them.
But I am also terribly thankful for the trash guy that takes my waste every week. And he isn't getting a movie discount. Or the guy/gal who keeps my lights on. Or the ones who do just about anything frankly.

My issue is largely with schools districts (and state/national policies) and not teachers or schools themselves.

bolded and highlighted issues that could not be stated better!

To me the entire concept of a government funded retirement plan is moronic. Again, I don't hold any public servant who gets it as doing anything other than taking, or negotiating, whatever benefit they can. IT IS NOT A EMPLOYEE ISSUE. It is merely the fact that the government is not responsible today for what they are giving in the future. The government gets by with not funding them. They use tax dollars for other purposes and kick the funding can down the road.