Can we all agree Ocasio-Cortez is fencepost dumb or nuts?

[kingcat]

The president followed that tweet with other statements clarifying what he meant. I just heard him five minutes ago discussing it with reporters and he stated he meant if they don't love this country go back to the one they came from, or just leave it.
That's pretty clear. as to what locations he was suggesting.

It seems everyone is pretty entrenched in their support for his tweet here.
I don't, and I agreed with our friend History's opinion.

[UKHistory]

The love it or leave it mantra, which I get and get strongly about say the US flag of the revolutionary war era, is an honest reaction

Not normally a way to learn, grow or compromise.

Telling people to leave the US and go back to where they came from is wrong when said to Americans. And if you aren’t saying it to Americans of Irish or Italian descent and just non white is racist.

I don’t agree with the squad much. Don’t like them. But all are Americans. Three of them were born here. The other came here as a child.

If trump had just said love it or leave it-ignoring his American Carnage speech that was the most depressing inauguration speech I can recall-fine. It is not productive and demands unquestioning blind loyalty to authority which by its nature is as American vodka and black bread.

Trump specifically urged them to go back to wheee they came from and improve those countries. That is bullshit.

I don’t think the squad has good ideas or the experience to get things done In Congress.

But they are Americans. Criticize their ideas. But threatening photoshopped porn and telling them to leave the country is bush league.

Also some folks say trump is being held to a double standard. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Obama said stupid things. Insulting things. Hell he insulted UK in 2012 and 2013 during the NCAA champ WH meetings

Just because Harry Reid was a dick or Nancy Pelosi has been awful, that doesn’t mean trump can behave as badly.

Hell he should and they all should try to put the country over cheap shots and personal wealth.

But the president of the US, the commander our armed forces should be held to a higher standard than a Congresswoman.

I can’t show respect to a man that wipes his ass with the Constitution and the Bible on a daily basis.

There is not a lot to say good about the squad but even less about Trump.

[Catonahottinroof]

It works both ways....... and I sense a Trump is playing Congressional Dems like a fiddle because he is making these 4 congresswoman the face of the party he is running against. The bad part is it is being bought hook, line and sinker by the left.

The love it or leave it mantra, which I get and get strongly about say the US flag of the revolutionary war era, is an honest reaction

Not normally a way to learn, grow or compromise.

Telling people to leave the US and go back to where they came from is wrong when said to Americans. And if you aren’t saying it to Americans of Irish or Italian descent and just non white is racist.

I don’t agree with the squad much. Don’t like them. But all are Americans. Three of them were born here. The other came here as a child.

If trump had just said love it or leave it-ignoring his American Carnage speech that was the most depressing inauguration speech I can recall-fine. It is not productive and demands unquestioning blind loyalty to authority which by its nature is as American vodka and black bread.

Trump specifically urged them to go back to wheee they came from and improve those countries. That is bullshit.

I don’t think the squad has good ideas or the experience to get things done In Congress.

But they are Americans. Criticize their ideas. But threatening photoshopped porn and telling them to leave the country is bush league.

Also some folks say trump is being held to a double standard. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Obama said stupid things. Insulting things. Hell he insulted UK in 2012 and 2013 during the NCAA champ WH meetings

Just because Harry Reid was a dick or Nancy Pelosi has been awful, that doesn’t mean trump can behave as badly.

Hell he should and they all should try to put the country over cheap shots and personal wealth.

But the president of the US, the commander our armed forces should be held to a higher standard than a Congresswoman.

I can’t show respect to a man that wipes his ass with the Constitution and the Bible on a daily basis.

There is not a lot to say good about the squad but even less about Trump.

[CitizenBBN]

The love it or leave it mantra, which I get and get strongly about say the US flag of the revolutionary war era, is an honest reaction

Not normally a way to learn, grow or compromise.

Telling people to leave the US and go back to where they came from is wrong when said to Americans.

At some level I agree with you, but at another I don't. Two parts (if you'll bear with me).

Part 1: Love it or leave it.

OK, that shouldn't apply to honest differences of opinion, but what if the person in question wants to fundamentally change the Great Experiment, and wants to remove individual liberty as the primary goal of this nation?

AOC has suggested we create a federal agency that will OK our private travel plans, regulate what we eat, etc. It's fundamentally anti-American. it wants to do away with individual liberty and the Constitution that protects it.

Should we compromise with that? How about we leave America as the one nation founded for the pursuit of life, liberty and property and if you can't accept that basic goal you go to ANY other place on the planet, b/c every other place on Earth does not see it that way so you have a ton of options.

I don't see that as an unfair position. Why should we eliminate the one place on Earth that is resreved for those who value their liberty more than their safety?


Part 2: Wrong when said to Americans


Is it wrong to accuse an American of being a Russian agent with no evidence whatsoever? To believe it in your heart as true despite no first hand knowledge and nothing more than innuendo and rumor?

That seems about as wrong as telling an American to pack a bag and get out to me.

What about accusing an American of being a Nazi? Of being as bad or worse than Hitler, a man who led to the deaths of tens of millions? Should an American endure those things?

I see a gaping double standard here. AOC can't be subjected to being told to pack up and get out if she wants to turn us into Venezuela, but Trump can be PRESUMED to be a traitor and a Hitler wannabe and that's not even worth a footnote.

So a duly elected President of the United States can be called illegitimate despite 60 million Americans voting for him, be accused of being a traitor with no proof, and compared to one of the most evil men in all human history, but let a few liberals be told to pack a bag and all hell breaks loose.

HUGE double standard guys. HUGE. Unreal in fact.

[CitizenBBN]

It works both ways....... and I sense a Trump is playing Congressional Dems like a fiddle because he is making these 4 congresswoman the face of the party he is running against. The bad part is it is being bought hook, line and sinker by the left.

IMO that's exactly what he's doing.

In his view the Pelosi/AOC feud is actually bad for him b/c Dems in swing areas can point to it and say "we're lot like AOC, we're standing up to her" etc.

By doing what he did now they're all in lock step again and those 4 are being featured, not Pelosi.

Will it work? I don't know, but I think Trump trolled them very intentionally in the middle of their feud and did it b/c he thinks it helps him for them to not feud but to keep painting the Squad as the face of the Democratic party.

I KNOW them being the face of the party helps him and the GOP, the question is if this helps accomplish making them the face of it.

[Catonahottinroof]

You can only yell racist, nazi, Russian spy so many times and when it continues to come up empty that it loses its effect. Especially when legit racism pops up, it likely won’t get the response it deserves to get by the stupidity going on in the political environment. I’m no supporter of his by any means, but the standard is very double, if not worse for every action he takes in the press and by the regressive left. They end up proving his points by their stupid responses.
The left has become mindnumb to their language and their actions in combatting what Trump does, and says. He will continue to bait them because they ALWAYS bite on the bait. Quit it...let his words ring without a response and then he really, really looks stupid for saying it...

At some level I agree with you, but at another I don't. Two parts (if you'll bear with me).

Part 1: Love it or leave it.

OK, that shouldn't apply to honest differences of opinion, but what if the person in question wants to fundamentally change the Great Experiment, and wants to remove individual liberty as the primary goal of this nation?

AOC has suggested we create a federal agency that will OK our private travel plans, regulate what we eat, etc. It's fundamentally anti-American. it wants to do away with individual liberty and the Constitution that protects it.

Should we compromise with that? How about we leave America as the one nation founded for the pursuit of life, liberty and property and if you can't accept that basic goal you go to ANY other place on the planet, b/c every other place on Earth does not see it that way so you have a ton of options.

I don't see that as an unfair position. Why should we eliminate the one place on Earth that is resreved for those who value their liberty more than their safety?


Part 2: Wrong when said to Americans


Is it wrong to accuse an American of being a Russian agent with no evidence whatsoever? To believe it in your heart as true despite no first hand knowledge and nothing more than innuendo and rumor?

That seems about as wrong as telling an American to pack a bag and get out to me.

What about accusing an American of being a Nazi? Of being as bad or worse than Hitler, a man who led to the deaths of tens of millions? Should an American endure those things?

I see a gaping double standard here. AOC can't be subjected to being told to pack up and get out if she wants to turn us into Venezuela, but Trump can be PRESUMED to be a traitor and a Hitler wannabe and that's not even worth a footnote.

So a duly elected President of the United States can be called illegitimate despite 60 million Americans voting for him, be accused of being a traitor with no proof, and compared to one of the most evil men in all human history, but let a few liberals be told to pack a bag and all hell breaks loose.

HUGE double standard guys. HUGE. Unreal in fact.

[Doc]

You can only yell racist, nazi, Russian spy so many times and when it continues to come up empty that it loses its effect. Especially when legit racism pops up, it likely won’t get the response it deserves to get by the stupidity going on in the political environment. I’m no supporter of his by any means, but the standard is very double, if not worse for every action he takes in the press and by the regressive left. They end up proving his points by their stupid responses.
The left has become mindnumb to their language and their actions in combatting what Trump does, and says. He will continue to bait them because they ALWAYS bite on the bait. Quit it...let his words ring without a response and then he really, really looks stupid for saying it...

One of my beefs concerning double standard is the Obstruction of Justice that the left is now hanging their hat on. They see attempting to defend yourself as obstruction. Trump won't release taxes? Obstruction of Justice. Won't release his private info? Obstruction of Justice. CONSIDERS removing Meuller ( but does not)? Obstruction of Justice. Yet mayors forewarn crimminals of impending ICE arrest so they can elude arrest is the moral thing to do. Smash a blackbeery and delete e-mails...old news

Call the president,who is also an Ameeican citizen, a traitor, a Nazi, a white supremist and a Russian operative and its fine but tell those folks who are doing it to go backnwhere you came from draws congressional sancture...because they are Americans

[Catonahottinroof]

Like I said, their response points out the double standard and the toxic state that exits in political speak these days.
Pie in the sky is hoping the entire Congress is swept out on its ass to begin anew. It won’t happen, but it needs to.....

One of my beefs concerning double standard is the Obstruction of Justice that the left is now hanging their hat on. They see attempting to defend yourself as obstruction. Trump won't release taxes? Obstruction of Justice. Won't release his private info? Obstruction of Justice. CONSIDERS removing Meuller ( but does not)? Obstruction of Justice. Yet mayors forewarn crimminals of impending ICE arrest so they can elude arrest is the moral thing to do. Smash a blackbeery and delete e-mails...old news

Call the president,who is also an Ameeican citizen, a traitor, a Nazi, a white supremist and a Russian operative and its fine but tell those folks who are doing it to go backnwhere you came from draws congressional sancture...because they are Americans

[suncat05]

Like I said, their response points out the double standard and the toxic state that exits in political speak these days.
Pie in the sky is hoping the entire Congress is swept out on its ass to begin anew. It won’t happen, but it needs to.....

If we could get 34 states to convene an Article V Convention of the States, and not have ANY POLITICIANS involved to foul up the process, that would be a very good place to begin to fix this mess.
Unfortunately, to get to that place the crooked & corrupt politicians are in the right-of-way, so arriving at that place, which the Founding Fathers saw fit to place in the Constitution for just such a time as this, is going to be very, very difficult.
There is another way to make BOTH SIDES come back to the mainstream middle, but I can't say THAT out loud and in public.
Because the extremists on both sides are completely out of control and are moving our Republic towards eventual destruction. And then, where will our world be? It definitely would not be a better place.

[KSRBEvans]

I just can't process this level of irony. I love irony, but this is coma level irony:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dem...-cortez-pelosi

Rep. William Lacy Clay, D-Mo., added to the mounting Democratic criticism of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., reportedly calling her, her chief of staff, and the group Justice Democrats "juvenile."

"Their ignorance is beyond belief," Clay, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, reportedly said while in the Speaker's Lobby.

His comments followed a feud between House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and freshman congresswomen, like Ocasio-Cortez, that involved racially-charged criticism.


Clay reportedly addressed the racial undertones of the criticisms coming from Ocasio-Cortez's office, saying it was "unbelievable" it would bring up that issue.


“What a weak argument, because you can’t get your way and because you’re getting pushback you resort to using the race card? Unbelievable. That’s unbelievable to me,” Clay reportedly said on Thursday.

I was listening to a podcast this morning and the guest, A.B. Stoddard, said she'd heard a Congressman say you can be a workhorse or you can be a Congressional Kardashian. I thought that was a really good way of putting it, and it's pretty clear which one AOC is.

[UKHistory]

At some level I agree with you, but at another I don't. Two parts (if you'll bear with me).

Part 1: Love it or leave it.

OK, that shouldn't apply to honest differences of opinion, but what if the person in question wants to fundamentally change the Great Experiment, and wants to remove individual liberty as the primary goal of this nation?

AOC has suggested we create a federal agency that will OK our private travel plans, regulate what we eat, etc. It's fundamentally anti-American. it wants to do away with individual liberty and the Constitution that protects it.

Should we compromise with that? How about we leave America as the one nation founded for the pursuit of life, liberty and property and if you can't accept that basic goal you go to ANY other place on the planet, b/c every other place on Earth does not see it that way so you have a ton of options.

I don't see that as an unfair position. Why should we eliminate the one place on Earth that is resreved for those who value their liberty more than their safety?


Part 2: Wrong when said to Americans


Is it wrong to accuse an American of being a Russian agent with no evidence whatsoever? To believe it in your heart as true despite no first hand knowledge and nothing more than innuendo and rumor?

That seems about as wrong as telling an American to pack a bag and get out to me.

What about accusing an American of being a Nazi? Of being as bad or worse than Hitler, a man who led to the deaths of tens of millions? Should an American endure those things?

I see a gaping double standard here. AOC can't be subjected to being told to pack up and get out if she wants to turn us into Venezuela, but Trump can be PRESUMED to be a traitor and a Hitler wannabe and that's not even worth a footnote.

So a duly elected President of the United States can be called illegitimate despite 60 million Americans voting for him, be accused of being a traitor with no proof, and compared to one of the most evil men in all human history, but let a few liberals be told to pack a bag and all hell breaks loose.

HUGE double standard guys. HUGE. Unreal in fact.

Let’s talk. Very thoughtful points.

1) Let’s take AOC and the proposed travel authorization agency. I have not heard that but will accept that it is a logical extension of her policies. My response is to fight them like Hell. Condemn her positions at that point as denying liberty UnConstitutional. And UnConstitutional is UnAmerican in my book

She will play the race card. This week she knows how to distinguish what a racist attack (trump) is over a strong rebuke that isn’t (Pelosi). In my view.

The congresswoman originally from Somalia made the anti Semitic comments about Israel. Criticizing Israel is another set of issues I will discuss when I can type with more than thumbs

With regards to the double standard. The President publicly making a statement is different than me on this platform or in my personal life. I say what I believe but I would be more careful if I had a different job

I can’t and don’t speak this way professionally (Hatch Act. )

That said accusing the president of conspiring or even coordinating with the Russians to win the election is a very serious statement. It is destructive and and about as an offensive thing one could say.

But trumps own words and behavior towards Russia and his treatment of NATO members disturbed me from the moment he spoke.

You can want better relations with Russia. You can be critical of NATO contributions. You can not do that while embracing the Russians and ignoring our own intel assessments that Putin has worked against our elections.

If you do all of those things I will say you are a traitor. If he is just stupid and is actively working against long term US interests I am wrong.

But I do think trump using his bully pulpit (he has the bully part down) to incite racist rebukes of Congress is disgraceful.

Attack their positions. Attack their experience. Attack the way they conduct themselves.

Do not say they should go back where they came from. America is their home. I’d love trump to go back home. Hell isnt accepting returns until the apocalypse.

[Doc]

I was listening to a podcast this morning and the guest, A.B. Stoddard, said she'd heard a Congressman say you can be a workhorse or you can be a Congressional Kardashian. I thought that was a really good way of putting it, and it's pretty clear which one AOC is.

Let me guess...she has a giant ass

[Catonahottinroof]

All I can say is your interpretation is askew in my opinion. You’re inferring assumptions that aren’t proven, and never will be other than in your mind. Trump’s race is green IMO. I find it laughable that the left hurls that tag at him. He sees green, money green. He wouldn’t have a Jewish son-in-law if he was truly racist.
His business dealings cross the spectrum of all races, but he is always favorable to the ones that produce “green”.
I seen a funny meme that stated Trump didn’t name anyone in his tweet...and 4 morons spoke up that it was them.
In a nutshell, that is how I see it too and the left always takes the bait.

Let’s talk. Very thoughtful points.

1) Let’s take AOC and the proposed travel authorization agency. I have not heard that but will accept that it is a logical extension of her policies. My response is to fight them like Hell. Condemn her positions at that point as denying liberty UnConstitutional. And UnConstitutional is UnAmerican in my book

She will play the race card. This week she knows how to distinguish what a racist attack (trump) is over a strong rebuke that isn’t (Pelosi). In my view.

The congresswoman originally from Somalia made the anti Semitic comments about Israel. Criticizing Israel is another set of issues I will discuss when I can type with more than thumbs

With regards to the double standard. The President publicly making a statement is different than me on this platform or in my personal life. I say what I believe but I would be more careful if I had a different job

I can’t and don’t speak this way professionally (Hatch Act. )

That said accusing the president of conspiring or even coordinating with the Russians to win the election is a very serious statement. It is destructive and and about as an offensive thing one could say.

But trumps own words and behavior towards Russia and his treatment of NATO members disturbed me from the moment he spoke.

You can want better relations with Russia. You can be critical of NATO contributions. You can not do that while embracing the Russians and ignoring our own intel assessments that Putin has worked against our elections.

If you do all of those things I will say you are a traitor. If he is just stupid and is actively working against long term US interests I am wrong.

But I do think trump using his bully pulpit (he has the bully part down) to incite racist rebukes of Congress is disgraceful.

Attack their positions. Attack their experience. Attack the way they conduct themselves.

Do not say they should go back where they came from. America is their home. I’d love trump to go back home. Hell isnt accepting returns until the apocalypse.

[kingcat]

We should have a discussion of each page of the Mueller report and the actual findings absent any media slant here.
It would be very enlightening

There were 117 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian operatives. There was a call by our president for Russia to find and release emails which was done within hours of it.

These and other things are very disturbing and although absent any tangible proof of conspiracy, do point to collusion, which is not a crime.

Obstruction as far as I can tell is a given but can’t be used except in an impeachment hearing

The real double standard seems to be how such a discovery would have been viewed by my friends here were it the former POTUS.
Similar to the outrageous amount of time spent golfing discussed relative to the former administration, which was and is a silly accusation I agree.

It would be worth it to me and I’d agree to comment and add to such a discussion as best I can

[Catonahottinroof]

I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve read a lot of legal opinion about this particular issue when the Mueller report was being dissected by legal minds. Obstruction, while possibly provable with what is given in the report has the legs cut out from under it because there is no original, trial/case provable crime that existed. So then it goes to impeachment which will fall along party lines, and no conviction. I’d like hear some of our legal folks opinion on it to be honest.

Obstruction as far as I can tell is a given but can’t be used except in an impeachment hearing

[kingcat]

I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve read a lot of legal opinion about this particular issue when the Mueller report was being dissected by legal minds. Obstruction, while possibly provable with what is given in the report has the legs cut out from under it because there is no original, trial/case provable crime that existed. So then it goes to impeachment which will fall along party lines, and no conviction. I’d like hear some of our legal folks opinion on it to be honest.

Yeah I’ve heard the same

But I believe the ethical aspect is just as important when talking about his office. It’s nothing to be proud of just to avoid prosecution on a technicality or executive priveledge

[Catonahottinroof]

I suspect if this went to trial, it would come out moreso than it has prior that his campaign was spied upon. Then the previous administration has something to not be proud of on the hands and egg on their faces.
And the ultimate driver in all of this!? Crappy political candidates and crappy political policy.

Yeah I’ve heard the same

But I believe the ethical aspect is just as important when talking about his office. It’s nothing to be proud of just to avoid prosecution on a technicality or executive priveledge

[kingcat]

Whatever truth is, is a good thing regardless. There is no ‘you shouldn’t have found out defense worth a nickel. Now if other shady things come to light that is also a good thing.

It may be none from the POTUS on down are worth a crap or deserving of high office. I get this feeling of hopelessness when I hear the ‘yeah but what about’ defense used by anyone as it relates to my country. In my 70’s vernacular, that’s an age old cop out

[Doc]

I would have no issue with the feds looking into Trump and his connection to Russia IF the same was done to the DNC. IMO, a meeting between Trumps underlings with Russians is far less of a concern to me than paying for and using a Russian created dossier. I fully expect that not everybody holds that same opinion, that believe the DNC did nothing wrong, and Trumps alleged infractions are far more nefarious. But then Hillary did not win the election, and the purpose of the Meuller report was to overturn an election.

Also rest assured that my feelings towards the ethical standards of Trump is no better or worse than the last administration. Eric Holder, BHO, etc were every bit as guilty of "obstruction of justice" when it comes to Fast and Furious as well as the IRS targeting conservatives. They used "executive privilege" and ignored subpoenas in order to prevent the exposure of these potentially illegal programs. And that does not even address the FISA court abuse. I would take the "impeach crowd" more seriously if they showed the same outrage 4 or 5 years ago.

[Catonahottinroof]

Agree, however this is going to become our bad is not as bad as your bad is. To me, this Congress...the entire thing needs to be voted out and all the political power that exists within it.
The 2020 election is going to have to take care of the rest.

Whatever truth is, is a good thing regardless. There is no ‘you shouldn’t have found out defense worth a nickel. Now if other shady things come to light that is also a good thing.

It may be none from the POTUS on down are worth a crap or deserving of high office. I get this feeling of hopelessness when I hear the ‘yeah but what about’ defense used by anyone as it relates to my country. In my 70’s vernacular, that’s an age old cop out

[CitizenBBN]

I would have no issue with the feds looking into Trump and his connection to Russia IF the same was done to the DNC. IMO, a meeting between Trumps underlings with Russians is far less of a concern to me than paying for and using a Russian created dossier. I fully expect that not everybody holds that same opinion, that believe the DNC did nothing wrong, and Trumps alleged infractions are far more nefarious. But then Hillary did not win the election, and the purpose of the Meuller report was to overturn an election.

Also rest assured that my feelings towards the ethical standards of Trump is no better or worse than the last administration. Eric Holder, BHO, etc were every bit as guilty of "obstruction of justice" when it comes to Fast and Furious as well as the IRS targeting conservatives. They used "executive privilege" and ignored subpoenas in order to prevent the exposure of these potentially illegal programs. And that does not even address the FISA court abuse. I would take the "impeach crowd" more seriously if they showed the same outrage 4 or 5 years ago.

Exactly Doc. Exceptionally well said IMO.

Eric Holder has said in public he's "Obama's boy". He's the AG, who was held in contempt for not turning over documents related to a major disaster overseen by DOJ. If Barr came out and said he was "Trump's Boy" would that be OK? Oh no, that's proof of obstruction of justice, when it's Trump.

The law must be applied evenly, or it's not a law. Equality before the law, the rule of law, is essential.

Did Trump's people have contact with Russians? Yes. So did Hillary's, Obama's, Bush's, etc. Investigate it all evenly, fairly, or shut up about it. The truth is there is vastly more foreign influence in Washington than anyone really wants the general public to know, on all sides. I'm against all of it, but I'm against just singling out Trump for it when everyone has done it and acting like he's some kind of exception and that it proves he's a traitor.

The duplicity of this entire couple of years is mind blowing.

[kingcat]

Was Holder also the beneficiary of a firing and subsequent hire at the peak of the investigation of his boss?

Heck, he may have been Im not sure. If so, I'd agree that is pretty shady stuff.

But seriously, there is always time to start doing right and expecting better. If a thief gets away with stealing from you, do we stop holding the next robber responsible because your house wasn't the one robbed?

[Catonahottinroof]

Tim is a YouTube journalist. He is not conservative, nor is he regressively liberal. He has the same take as I do. I’m glad to know others out there see the same things I do...

https://youtu.be/Pak8vWbwyJQ

[Doc]

But seriously, there is always time to start doing right and expecting better. If a thief gets away with stealing from you, do we stop holding the next robber responsible because your house wasn't the one robbed?

No but what I don't do is let the first robbery go uninvestigated or unpunished and call the second thief a racist crook. Me, I look for BOTH thiefs, not just the second one

[CitizenBBN]

Was Holder also the beneficiary of a firing and subsequent hire at the peak of the investigation of his boss?

Heck, he may have been Im not sure. If so, I'd agree that is pretty shady stuff.

But seriously, there is always time to start doing right and expecting better. If a thief gets away with stealing from you, do we stop holding the next robber responsible because your house wasn't the one robbed?

Your analogy implying we should just NOW, when Trump happens to be in office, enforce the laws of the land we have ignored in the past, is quite a spin on things.

First, in this case Obama didn't have to fire anyone, b/c he put "his boy" in the position without opposition, and it was admitted publicly. Had Sessions stood up and said he was "Trump's Boy" you and others would have lost your minds screaming about the corruption and obstruction.

But second, the more apt analogy is there are two robberies on the same street, one say of a black family, and the other of a rich white family, and only the one of the rich white family gets investigated by the police. It's selective enforcement and it's wrong. Even if the black family was robbed the day prior to the rich white folks. Still wrong.

The left is willing to throw out every foundation principle of our legal system, even the principles of equality before the law and innocence until proven guilty, in order to "get Trump". The ends justifies the means for so many.

Calls to impeach a President b/c he insulted someone? Seriously? Believing he's a Russian agent not b/c he shifts policy (he didn't at all) but b/c he's honest and vocal about things like our allies not holding up their part of treaties?

It's absurd. Obama orders delivery of $4 BILLION in cash to Iran, sets the "reset" button with Putin that brings in hundreds of millions of hard dollars to his regime, and he's not even questioned. Trump calls out our allies who have for decades been lax in their obligations and he's now sent from some plane of Hell to bring down our Constitution. Jeez Louise guys.

[kingcat]

I can easily accept that you believe Obama should be investigated. Which as I understand it Barr can very well do at the request of the president. perhaps there is a reason why that has went nowhere other than the spin right wing media puts on things.

And there was (and is) every reason to investigate Trumps dealings. Many in the republican party supported and still support it. I have accepted that attacks on the former administration, Clintons, or even the Bush years have become the go to defense for Mr Trump.

The fact is, and without wanting to have any hard feelings, there is nothing the President can do or say that would be cause for alarm for the apologetic right wing of conservatives. A constant need to defend something is not always indicative of error on the part of the accuser. It is even more likely to be the willing blind eye of the defender.

And personally I believe firmly history will record this era unfavorably with regard to most Republicans and the Trump presidency.
Yet he has skillfully persuaded many that democracy is the enemy and turned them against the United States as it has existed for the last 100 years.
He has successfully divided the nation from within.
And rehashing the same arguments over and over, or loudly beating the drum of contempt for those Americans you disagree with, wont hide that fact from history. I know my history well enough to see the dangerous parallels which are evident everywhere in the world, as well as to most Americans I believe.
And it goes well beyond politics for me.

Democrats in the center like me (and I am center) are not going to stay silent..., and neither will Republicans of like mind, ..forever in the face of the most hate filled political movement in the history of our country. But I do believe my friends here will begin to see the truth before long.

[kingcat]

I can easily accept that you believe Obama should be investigated. Which as I understand it Barr can very well do at the request of the president. perhaps there is a reason why that has went nowhere other than the spin right wing media puts on things.

And there was (and is) every reason to investigate Trumps dealings. Many in the republican party supported and still support it. I have accepted that attacks on the former administration, Clintons, or even the Bush years have become the go to defense for Mr Trump.

The fact is, and without wanting to have any hard feelings, there is nothing the President can do or say that would be cause for alarm for the apologetic right wing of conservatives. A constant need to defend something is not always indicative of error on the part of the accuser. It is even more likely to be the willing blind eye of the defender.

And personally I believe firmly history will record this era unfavorably with regard to most Republicans and the Trump presidency.
Yet he has skillfully persuaded many that democracy is the enemy and turned them against the United States as it has existed for the last 100 years.
He has successfully divided the nation from within.
And rehashing the same arguments over and over, or loudly beating the drum of contempt for those Americans you disagree with, wont hide that fact from history. I know my history well enough to see the dangerous parallels which are evident everywhere in the world, as well as to most Americans I believe.
And it goes well beyond politics for me.

Democrats in the center like me (and I am center) are not going to stay silent..., and neither will Republicans of like mind, ..forever in the face of the most hate filled political movement in the history of our country. But I do believe my friends here will begin to see the truth before long.

On the other hand I still believe Ocasio-Cortez is both fencepost dumb and nuts.

But an American. Many old soldiers were fencepost dumb and nuts, yet gave their lives for Freedom and the Flag.

[CitizenBBN]

The fact is, and without wanting to have any hard feelings, there is nothing the President can do or say that would be cause for alarm for the apologetic right wing of conservatives. A constant need to defend something is not always indicative of error on the part of the accuser. It is even more likely to be the willing blind eye of the defender.

And personally I believe firmly history will record this era unfavorably with regard to most Republicans and the Trump presidency.
Yet he has skillfully persuaded many that democracy is the enemy and turned them against the United States as it has existed for the last 100 years.
He has successfully divided the nation from within.
And rehashing the same arguments over and over, or loudly beating the drum of contempt for those Americans you disagree with, wont hide that fact from history. I know my history well enough to see the dangerous parallels which are evident everywhere in the world, as well as to most Americans I believe.
And it goes well beyond politics for me.

Democrats in the center like me (and I am center) are not going to stay silent..., and neither will Republicans of like mind, ..forever in the face of the most hate filled political movement in the history of our country. But I do believe my friends here will begin to see the truth before long.

You prove your own point. Just as you say those on the right are locked in their views, you are just as locked into yours.

After 2 years and a massive investigation proving all your fears false re Trump, you still think he's convincing us that "democracy is the enemy" and that he's going to declare himself King or something. With absolutely not one single shred of evidence, despite years in office.

How's that for an entrenched view?

I've got years of his administration now proving he's exactly what I said he was in 2016: a boorish personal ass who will not be any more a danger to the US than any other President.

He's divisive? No, he's only divisive b/c he's on the other side from you. For those of us over on this side Obama was the divisive one, it's just no one noticed b/c conservatives don't control the media.

As for this somehow being the "most hate filled movement in the history of this country", sorry but it's not even close. Where's all this "hate" from Trump? Has he called you "deplorable"? Called you a racist for basic ideological beliefs that have nothing to do with race? Called you a Nazi b/c you want some kind of immigration law at all?

Oh, there's a lot of hate right now in this country, but I'm willing to have a big debate about its source.

And in a way Trump is a threat to democracy, but only b/c it has somehow triggered the Left to abandon basic American principles and traditional liberal views of civil liberties and free speech, using various fascist and McCarthyist techniques to try to silence any opposition.

I can provided dozens of examples of those on the Left trying to shut down free speech, hundreds. How many on the right?

[kingcat]

You prove your own point. Just as you say those on the right are locked in their views, you are just as locked into yours.

After 2 years and a massive investigation proving all your fears false re Trump, you still think he's convincing us that "democracy is the enemy" and that he's going to declare himself King or something. With absolutely not one single shred of evidence, despite years in office.

How's that for an entrenched view?

I've got years of his administration now proving he's exactly what I said he was in 2016: a boorish personal ass who will not be any more a danger to the US than any other President.

He's divisive? No, he's only divisive b/c he's on the other side from you. For those of us over on this side Obama was the divisive one, it's just no one noticed b/c conservatives don't control the media.

As for this somehow being the "most hate filled movement in the history of this country", sorry but it's not even close. Where's all this "hate" from Trump? Has he called you "deplorable"? Called you a racist for basic ideological beliefs that have nothing to do with race? Called you a Nazi b/c you want some kind of immigration law at all?

Oh, there's a lot of hate right now in this country, but I'm willing to have a big debate about its source.

And in a way Trump is a threat to democracy, but only b/c it has somehow triggered the Left to abandon basic American principles and traditional liberal views of civil liberties and free speech, using various fascist and McCarthyist techniques to try to silence any opposition.

I can provided dozens of examples of those on the Left trying to shut down free speech, hundreds. How many on the right?

Talk about entrenched! And in denial at that.

Id start with the President of the United States and his followers to include some of craziest right wing fringe conspiracy theorists this country has ever known. Some were at the White House just recently making a mockery of that free speech you mention by the way. From Alex Jones to Gab and QAnon, and the common racist organizations that dont deserve a mention. There are an almost limitless group of anti-American right wing celebrities, dieties, and groups who would at one time not have been tolerated. These groups have been wittingly empowered and equally wish to silence their opponents...and by any means necessary like..driving a car into a crowd of people.

And I am confident if the generation who once defended against such hate and vitriol were still here much right wing and left wing speech would not be tolerated.
Speaking of Germans, many were deceived by a similar nationalist movement, and the subtle move towards white supremacy, a doctrine of hate, and a manipulation of ingrained bias, bigotry, and racism. Instilling fear and distrust of any media which might attempt to explore the dangers of such things with "alternate facts" while cultivating a network of propaganda.

Condemning our courts, electoral process, our longstanding alliances, the media, an entire political base, and any American who might dissent or disagree is cause for alarm. Add to that a large group of people who, absent common sense, dedicate themselves to defending the man using those same tactics and manufactured talking points.

"The far left in this country can be dangerous no doubt, but the equally far right is probably even more so. And many will admit that strait up.

There was a time when no one dared speak the things which have become commonplace. And make no mistake it comes equally from extremes on both sides despite your insistence otherwise. President Trump is your man, whether you believe it or not you have made that abundantly clear.
You are entrenched in your defense of everything he does and attack every opposing view vehemently.

All those fears were not proven false. It was proven that some in the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians, likely to include the President himself, but that collusion was not a crime. (Low down but not criminal, but enough to anger any American who finds it disgusting that the Russians tampered with our elections)

And there was not adequate evidence of conspiracy to bring charges. Kudos Mr. President!

And it was found that the president could not be cleared of obstruction but a sitting president cannot be charged. And that it was left to Congress to decide what to do about it.
...That is easy enough to decipher.

Like I said, on the whole, history will decide. (Not our History)

FWIW, I do agree with you on a lot of points. At least to some extent

[KeithKSR]

All I can say is your interpretation is askew in my opinion. You’re inferring assumptions that aren’t proven, and never will be other than in your mind. Trump’s race is green IMO. I find it laughable that the left hurls that tag at him. He sees green, money green. He wouldn’t have a Jewish son-in-law if he was truly racist.
His business dealings cross the spectrum of all races, but he is always favorable to the ones that produce “green”.
I seen a funny meme that stated Trump didn’t name anyone in his tweet...and 4 morons spoke up that it was them.
In a nutshell, that is how I see it too and the left always takes the bait.

Interviews with black and female cabinet members show that they know the accusations or racism and misogyny to be bunk. Ben Carson said he knows racism from his youth growing up in Detroit, and if Trump was racist he would have resigned his HUD position. Carson went on to list all the things Trump is doing in the traditionally minority areas to boost opportunities and jobs for minorities.