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  1. #1

    Significant G-League Announcement

    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...one-route-ncaa

    As part of a newly formed "professional path" starting in the summer of 2019, the G League will offer "Select Contracts" worth $125,000 to elite prospects who are at least 18 years old but not yet eligible for the NBA draft. It will target recent or would-be high school graduates who otherwise would have likely spent just one season playing college basketball, enticing them not only with a six-figure salary but also the opportunity to benefit from NBA infrastructure, as well as a bevy of off-court development programs "geared towards facilitating and accelerating their transition to the pro game," Turner said.
    Last edited by UKFlounder; 10-18-2018 at 01:15 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Uh huh. Yeah, who would have predicted the NBA brass was going to use the G-League to make a move on the college basketball money/market....

    This is just the beginning. NCAA needs to get their ivory towers out of their behinds and look at what is coming. So do the P5 schools, b/c if the NCAA won't unstrap them from every podunk school in America financially, they may have to do it on their own.

    They're going to vertically integrate down to the middle school level. They've been as obvious as a baseball bat about it, not hard to see the plan, and it doesn't include college basketball getting any top talent once they get in place. Zero.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  3. #3

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    Uh huh. Yeah, who would have predicted the NBA brass was going to use the G-League to make a move on the college basketball money/market....

    This is just the beginning. NCAA needs to get their ivory towers out of their behinds and look at what is coming. So do the P5 schools, b/c if the NCAA won't unstrap them from every podunk school in America financially, they may have to do it on their own.

    They're going to vertically integrate down to the middle school level. They've been as obvious as a baseball bat about it, not hard to see the plan, and it doesn't include college basketball getting any top talent once they get in place. Zero.
    The NBA isn't at war with college basketball, any more than the NFL is at war with college football. Minor leagues are a financial disaster.
    My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice." For years I was smart. I recommend nice. You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

  4. #4
    Fab Five dan_bgblue's Avatar
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    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Minor leagues are a financial disaster.
    Yet professional organizations and pro leagues continue down that road. Why do you think that is?
    seeya
    dan

    “I am more than just a Serious basketball fan. I am a life-long Addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.” Hunter S Thompson

  5. #5

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by dan_bgblue View Post
    Yet professional organizations and pro leagues continue down that road. Why do you think that is?
    They don't continue down that road. Major league baseball was stuck with it as a historical matter. Football never went that way.

    Neither will basketball.
    My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice." For years I was smart. I recommend nice. You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

  6. #6

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Genuine Realist View Post
    The NBA isn't at war with college basketball, any more than the NFL is at war with college football. Minor leagues are a financial disaster.
    Yes you're of course right. This big pay boost and their millions being spent on replacing AAU ball is all done for reasons of .... why is that again?

    Just wait. Big companies for more than a century now have fallen to the allure of vertical integration. Sometimes with great success, other times to their loss, but it happens and it's clear it's happening with the NBA now.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  7. #7

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Agree citizen.

  8. #8

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Genuine Realist View Post
    They don't continue down that road. Major league baseball was stuck with it as a historical matter. Football never went that way.

    Neither will basketball.
    They're doing it, right now. Increasing G League pay to steer OAD players to the G League over college. INvesting millions more in replacing the AAU circuit with their product.

    You're ignoring some pretty obvious proof here, b/c they are definitely spending real money on their minor leagues.

    And in fact if you look at minor league baseball, their valuations have been rising of late. But with basketball there's a multi-billion dollar market sitting there, all going to colleges now. Will they get all of that? no, but they may get enough of it.

    They also get benefits like controlling the branding on players, etc.

    And some of their reasoning will be wrong. They don't have to be smart to do this, doesn't change that it's being done.

    But for whatever mix of reasons, clearly the new Commissioner and enough owners are totally changing direction from the one and done rule. Instead of getting colleges to do their vetting for them (the past commish wanted 2 and through) they are moving the opposite direction, getting involved all the way down to high school again.

    Are they right? I think they'll find a mixed bag, but that doesn't change that there is overwhelming proof, like this announcment, of their goals and plans. It's beyond obvious at this point.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  9. #9

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    I am all for this. Now, they need to change the NCAA rule. No more One and Done. Let the elite's take this path (or get drafted outright) and then if you go to college you stay 2 years.

    The question of course is how many of these "Elite" prospects are there that will garner that pay day? And they are working on determining that right now. 10? 15?

    Take our current UK team right now. How many of them would have been considered part of this $125,000 group?

    Maybe KJ. Possibly Hagans as an outside shot (if he didn't re-classify). Richards and PJ maybe last year so they aren't on this team?

    Give me a team of Quickley, Green, Herro, Reid and EJ. Plus some other guys like Baker on the bench. And keep them for two years or more. That is still a lot of talent, fun to watch, gives some consistency, etc. I would love college basketball just as much. And UK would still be the cream of the crop.
    ~Puma~

  10. #10

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    I couldn’t help but notice the term “select contracts” this implies the offers will be limited.

  11. #11

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Another really interesting note on this that is easy to miss....

    According to the announcement, the players would sign this contract BEFORE they are drafted. This leads to a slew of issues that will need to be addressed but is important in two ways as far as UK is concerned:

    1. It eliminates NBA teams "grasping" at a prospect who has not proven themselves. For instance, say Wiseman took this path. Every team would want to draft him if it was before the year in the G-league. Meaning, they would draft him and then he would play a year in their G-League affiliate before moving on to the team. This would make it a true minor-league system. But that is not what they are doing. They are going to be placed on random G-leage teams and THEN drafted the year after. Which leads me to #2...

    2. This could severely hurt a players stock. Yes, they get the $125,000. And with some kids, they need it and will take it. But for others, Cal will absolutely be able to make a pitch that he will help their draft stock more than the G-League would. What happens if Wiseman takes this path. And then goes up against MEN in the G-league and looks terrible. It severely hurts his stock and costs him millions.
    Whereas, in college, he is playing against lesser talent and younger players. His stock remains high and he is still drafted as a "prospect". This will be really interesting to play out. Its a very significant part of this that shouldn't be under-estimated.

    Final thought, the article makes it sound like this will be immediate. Meaning, some of the class of 2019 will most likely be taking this route. Any of our guys? I don't know. But it sounds like some will. The NBA rep was vague when saying they wouldn't "go after" players already committed to schools. But said if that player chose to decommit, they would be eligible. Uh huh.

    I think this tidbit is a mistake by the NBA but good for college basketball. Basically, the NBA is protecting its investment. $125,000 is nothing for them to throw out to a prospect (just ask Kansas). If they flail away there isn't much lost.
    But if they drafted them first, they are "all in". If they blow that people get fired.
    ~Puma~

  12. #12

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by ukpumacat View Post
    I am all for this.
    The NCAA leadership I believe agrees with you. Get back to me in 5-7 years. Betting you both change your mind.

    The NBA won't drive the college game away b/c of the built in fans, but it will make significant inroads. Enough that P5 programs have to make cuts? We'll see.

    Never, ever sell. Never let a competitor take your market share.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  13. #13

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by ukpumacat View Post
    I am all for this. Now, they need to change the NCAA rule. No more One and Done. Let the elite's take this path (or get drafted outright) and then if you go to college you stay 2 years.

    The question of course is how many of these "Elite" prospects are there that will garner that pay day? And they are working on determining that right now. 10? 15?

    Take our current UK team right now. How many of them would have been considered part of this $125,000 group?

    Maybe KJ. Possibly Hagans as an outside shot (if he didn't re-classify). Richards and PJ maybe last year so they aren't on this team?

    Give me a team of Quickley, Green, Herro, Reid and EJ. Plus some other guys like Baker on the bench. And keep them for two years or more. That is still a lot of talent, fun to watch, gives some consistency, etc. I would love college basketball just as much. And UK would still be the cream of the crop.
    Not exactly sure what you’re saying. There is no “one-and-done” rule, per se. And, it’s the prerogative of th nba. So, there’s nothing the NCAA can do, really.

  14. #14

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by ukpumacat View Post
    Another really interesting note on this that is easy to miss....

    According to the announcement, the players would sign this contract BEFORE they are drafted. This leads to a slew of issues that will need to be addressed but is important in two ways as far as UK is concerned:

    1. It eliminates NBA teams "grasping" at a prospect who has not proven themselves. For instance, say Wiseman took this path. Every team would want to draft him if it was before the year in the G-league. Meaning, they would draft him and then he would play a year in their G-League affiliate before moving on to the team. This would make it a true minor-league system. But that is not what they are doing. They are going to be placed on random G-leage teams and THEN drafted the year after. Which leads me to #2...

    2. This could severely hurt a players stock. Yes, they get the $125,000. And with some kids, they need it and will take it. But for others, Cal will absolutely be able to make a pitch that he will help their draft stock more than the G-League would. What happens if Wiseman takes this path. And then goes up against MEN in the G-league and looks terrible. It severely hurts his stock and costs him millions.
    Whereas, in college, he is playing against lesser talent and younger players. His stock remains high and he is still drafted as a "prospect". This will be really interesting to play out. Its a very significant part of this that shouldn't be under-estimated.

    Final thought, the article makes it sound like this will be immediate. Meaning, some of the class of 2019 will most likely be taking this route. Any of our guys? I don't know. But it sounds like some will. The NBA rep was vague when saying they wouldn't "go after" players already committed to schools. But said if that player chose to decommit, they would be eligible. Uh huh.

    I think this tidbit is a mistake by the NBA but good for college basketball. Basically, the NBA is protecting its investment. $125,000 is nothing for them to throw out to a prospect (just ask Kansas). If they flail away there isn't much lost.
    But if they drafted them first, they are "all in". If they blow that people get fired.
    I agree with your analysis, but this is just them putting their toes in the water. That's why they are doing it this way, b/c it won't blow up the CBA to do these deals BEFORE they are drafted. Agents will be all for it, so no player issues.

    But it likely won't stay that way. It's clear the OAD rule will go away, this is all just prongs on the pitchfork.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  15. #15

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by HerbTarlek View Post
    Not exactly sure what you’re saying. There is no “one-and-done” rule, per se. And, it’s the prerogative of th nba. So, there’s nothing the NCAA can do, really.
    You're right the OAD isn't a NCAA rule of course, but the NCAA not letting drafted (or passed on players who declare) play ball is their side of that same coin.

    Let players earn money from their name and likeness, and all of the NBA's plans come crumbing down, b/c $125K is p*** money to what a top player would get in endorsement money at UK or DUke even for just one year.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  16. #16

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    The NCAA leadership I believe agrees with you. Get back to me in 5-7 years. Betting you both change your mind.

    The NBA won't drive the college game away b/c of the built in fans, but it will make significant inroads. Enough that P5 programs have to make cuts? We'll see.

    Never, ever sell. Never let a competitor take your market share.
    We shall see. Just being honest, but I am weary of the current college basketball landscape. I think its unfair to everyone involved.
    ~Puma~

  17. #17

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by ukpumacat View Post
    We shall see. Just being honest, but I am weary of the current college basketball landscape. I think its unfair to everyone involved.
    It is, but the way to fix that isn't to just cede all the top talent to some other entity and settle for less money, less marketing and less talent.

    I'm confident the NCAA is going to take that approach however. They see these guys going to the NBA as solving their PR Pressures. After all, no one is upset about the deal Brad Calipari is getting at UK. If those top stars have a cash money offer on the table and then still come to college, the argument over exploitation dies. If they go pro it dies.

    They see this as a way out. ANd they're right. What they don't see is what it will lead to when CBS negotiates the new tourney deal down the road and all the top guys are playing somewhere else.

    At least that's my theory.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  18. #18

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Announcements are one thing. Follow-through is another. And follow through after you've had a few years of serious loss is another.

    Vertical integration is only tempting when all the stages are profitable. But the G-League isn't profitable and is never going to be.

    All of this is solved, of course, if the NCAA tosses the amateur rule and allows NBA support, along with the shoe companies, and others (except the school itself and boosters). Then the college game becomes the G-League itself, and everything works for everybody. Too simple, I guess.
    My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice." For years I was smart. I recommend nice. You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

  19. #19
    Fab Five Darryl's Avatar
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    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    The NCAA leadership I believe agrees with you. Get back to me in 5-7 years. Betting you both change your mind.

    The NBA won't drive the college game away b/c of the built in fans, but it will make significant inroads. Enough that P5 programs have to make cuts? We'll see.

    Never, ever sell. Never let a competitor take your market share.
    It will destroy the game as we know it. The best 40-50 kids a year will do this or at least consider it. Does a coach hold a spot while they decide? When do you cut off recruiting them? Combine this with the shoe companies offering money/contracts for some players and no coach should recruit any elite player.

    I cannot fathom anyone thinking a product is/will be better with the top 25% of the talent going elsewhere. I am sure an orchestra would be as enjoyable if the very best musicians were missing. How about a top hospital telling patients, "come on in, we have the 3rd best cardiac surgeons available"

    High school kids will have NO incentive to graduate. Agents will be everywhere.

    Good Lord, the NCAA is just incredibly stupid. They really should be in Congress. Would fit right in.

    Darryl

  20. #20
    Comeback Cat ETWNAPPEL's Avatar
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    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Funny, $125k is about the cost of a college education. I’d take the experience and Cal coaching

  21. #21

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl View Post
    It will destroy the game as we know it. The best 40-50 kids a year will do this or at least consider it. Does a coach hold a spot while they decide? When do you cut off recruiting them? Combine this with the shoe companies offering money/contracts for some players and no coach should recruit any elite player.

    I cannot fathom anyone thinking a product is/will be better with the top 25% of the talent going elsewhere. I am sure an orchestra would be as enjoyable if the very best musicians were missing. How about a top hospital telling patients, "come on in, we have the 3rd best cardiac surgeons available"

    High school kids will have NO incentive to graduate. Agents will be everywhere.

    Good Lord, the NCAA is just incredibly stupid. They really should be in Congress. Would fit right in.

    Darryl
    I would agree if it were the best 40-50 kids. But there is absolutely no way they are giving that money to that many kids.

    And I think people are under-appreciating the importance of stability and growth. We actually go through this every so often at UK. Last year, we were recruiting several Power Forwards.
    And we discussed several times on this board...would you rather have a Sophomore PJ Washington or a Freshman Zion.
    Or a Sophomore Richards vs a Freshman Bol Bol.
    Those are not cut and dry decisions (I would take the Sophomores on both accounts btw). And recruits are already choosing a school based on that. Its already happening.
    We are talking the very top guys that are going to get this opportunity. Others will see the value of college and college coaching/programs and go that route.

    If its the Top 10 guys every year that get this contract...UK's current team would be (using 247 rankings):

    Kevin Knox
    Jared Vanderbilt
    Shai Gilgeous Alexander
    PJ Washington
    Nick Richards
    Quade Green
    Ashton Hagans
    Keldon Johnson
    Immanuel Quickley
    Tyler Herro
    Jamarl Baker


    What the NCAA HAS to do is work with the NBA and change the rules for who can enter the draft. And all signs is that is what they are doing. A "select" group would get this G-League deal, and the rest would go to school for 2 years minimum.
    And the above group would suit me just fine.
    ~Puma~

  22. #22
    Fab Five dan_bgblue's Avatar
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    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Never, ever sell. Never let a competitor take your market share.
    Absolutely true from a marketing standpoint. Just ask Sears what they think of allowing the internet and online stores to take a small share of their business in years 1 thru 5.

    Vertical integration is only tempting when all the stages are profitable. But the G-League isn't profitable and is never going to be.
    Is supporting the G league and hiring players to play there with the ability to bring them up to the majors at a fraction of what it would cost to acquire their services out of the college player draft with the huge signing bonuses the top tier players get for a completely untested product that may play year one in the G League any way?

    Vertical integration works if one of the tiers loses money, but costs less in that loss than the costs of using an outside supplier to satisfy a need.
    seeya
    dan

    “I am more than just a Serious basketball fan. I am a life-long Addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.” Hunter S Thompson

  23. #23

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl View Post

    High school kids will have NO incentive to graduate. Agents will be everywhere.

    Darryl
    This is a part no one will talk about. LOTS of kids will think they don't have to study and lots of unscrupulous people and family members will convince them they're right.

    It won't be 10s of thousands, but it will be thousands overall, b/c some of these kids will start that thinking in 6th and 7th grade and not recover academically.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  24. #24

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    If the great coaching minds leave college for the g league then CBB
    will suffer. Otherwise they will not develope in the g league like under college coaching and that will be quickly proven.
    There will be a lack of exposure for most kids who make that jump too, while college players will continue to be the stars of basketball. So it would only benefit the kid who is NBA ready coming out of high school
    And hurt every other kid in the short, and in the long term.

    We can out recruit the g league at UK...heck we are already out recruiting teams that pay that much for kids. And our NBA players make a billion bucks
    Last edited by kingcat; 10-18-2018 at 10:05 PM.

    “Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
    “I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
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  25. #25
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    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    The G League could take away the best elite college freshmen and the prospect of making it to the pros will negatively impact many academically questionable kids.

    This is bad for the African American community and college basketball.

    The NCAA doesn't care. Why? Because the NCAA is betting that its cash cow the men's tournament will still get huge ratings due the betting.

    The NCAA doesn't get much from football. Regular season basketball is good but not great money. The NCAA exists for the tournament and the bettors will watch and pick brackets regardless.

    That is what is so cynical and horrible about the NCAA. They don't care about the players.
    This will be a day longer remembered. It has seen the end of Pitino and will soon see the end of Louisville. September 27, 2017

  26. #26

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl View Post
    It will destroy the game as we know it. The best 40-50 kids a year will do this or at least consider it. Does a coach hold a spot while they decide? When do you cut off recruiting them? Combine this with the shoe companies offering money/contracts for some players and no coach should recruit any elite player.

    I cannot fathom anyone thinking a product is/will be better with the top 25% of the talent going elsewhere. I am sure an orchestra would be as enjoyable if the very best musicians were missing. How about a top hospital telling patients, "come on in, we have the 3rd best cardiac surgeons available"

    High school kids will have NO incentive to graduate. Agents will be everywhere.

    Good Lord, the NCAA is just incredibly stupid. They really should be in Congress. Would fit right in.

    Darryl
    It won't be 40-50 kids a year. It will be just a few kids that the NBA hand selects.

  27. #27

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    I wish I were close enough to you guys to make bets. There's a lot of chicken little stuff above.
    My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice." For years I was smart. I recommend nice. You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

  28. #28

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    The current legal battles will only provide incentive to the shoe and apparel companies to target the top talent to pursue the professional route. Providing a few $100k of guaranteed money if not more to promising prospects with a contract backloaded with huge money if you hit certain milestones is a no brainer and peanuts for them in their search for the next superstar.

    It’ll change the landscape of the AAU circuit and the mindset of how prospects are groomed for their next level of maturation to some extent at a minimum if I understand the premise correctly. The corresponding effect on the NCAA will be determined by how they react to the change, but if they opt to maintain their draconian guise of amateurism I don’t see it won’t have a negative effect on the quality of the collegiate product that the NCAA has so gleefully filled its coffers with over the years. JMO of course.

  29. #29

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Genuine Realist View Post
    I wish I were close enough to you guys to make bets. There's a lot of chicken little stuff above.
    I've never really been accused of being chicken little, and in the end whether college basketball makes billions or millions really doesn't impact me much either way, so your ascribing that "sky is falling" motive to me is a false narrative.

    I simply like reading business strategies, understanding and predicting them, and this one is beyond obvious. Will it work? Maybe, maybe not, but your built in assumption seems to be that if you don't see it as making economic sense then they must not be trying it.

    That's a very faulty assumption given the history of businesses trying all kinds of things that end up not making any economic sense. It's clear the NBA has utterly shifted direction from the OAD move, which was to extract the NBA from sending scouts to high school games, and now they want to standardize and organize at that level so their scouts only have to go to NBA run summer events.

    I could just as easily suggest that some are happily sailing their royal barge down a famous Egyptian river, b/c it's a cold hard fact the NBA is organizing at the AAU level, and now a cold hard fact they are increasing G League salaries and actively trying to attract the tip top players coming out of high school. If that's not developing a minor league system, I'm not really sure what would constitute proof.
    Last edited by CitizenBBN; 10-19-2018 at 03:54 AM.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  30. #30

    Re: Significant G-League Announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    I've never really been accused of being chicken little, and in the end whether college basketball makes billions or millions really doesn't impact me much either way, so your ascribing that "sky is falling" motive to me is a false narrative.

    I simply like reading business strategies, understanding and predicting them, and this one is beyond obvious. Will it work? Maybe, maybe not, but your built in assumption seems to be that if you don't see it as making economic sense then they must not be trying it.

    That's a very faulty assumption given the history of businesses trying all kinds of things that end up not making any economic sense. It's clear the NBA has utterly shifted direction from the OAD move, which was to extract the NBA from sending scouts to high school games, and now they want to standardize and organize at that level so their scouts only have to go to NBA run summer events.

    I could just as easily suggest that some are happily sailing their royal barge down a famous Egyptian river, b/c it's a cold hard fact the NBA is organizing at the AAU level, and now a cold hard fact they are increasing G League salaries and actively trying to attract the tip top players coming out of high school. If that's not developing a minor league system, I'm not really sure what would constitute proof.
    No, it isn't simple business strategy. The huge assumption you are making is that there is some profit incentive in building minor leagues (as in other vertically integrated businesses).

    There isn't. They are almost certain losers. Add to that that your stars develop in complete invisibility, that you miss out on the name recognition that comes with the NCAA tournament, and you have almost zero motivation to invest in a league.

    What motivation there is comes from the fact that the present OAD system also robs the NBA franchises of name recognition and developed mature players. But there is a cure for that . . .
    My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice." For years I was smart. I recommend nice. You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

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