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  1. #1

    Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    That is awesome..and why we should maybe not be too hard on kids who risk the second round risk. I was just as hard on these decisions as anyone and I may shut up now..heck briscoe just got guaranteed $500k

  2. #2

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Wow, that's great. Fantastic.

    A FAR better outcome than I anticipated.

    I've always said, everybody makes the right decision--for themselves. There are things we just don't know. In this case, his result was better than I expected. I thought his interests would be better serve by returning--and maybe that was the case. But this is a great outcome, so I don't doubt it was a good decision at all.

    Good for him.

  3. #3
    Super Kitten
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    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Is any of that money guaranteed? Signing bonus?

    Canít believe a team would make any guarantees with his injury issues.

    Wish him the best though.

  4. #4

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Adrian Wojnarowski
    @wojespn
    Source: Three-years, $4M for 41st pick in Draft.

    Denver Nuggets @nuggets
    Another contract inked ☑️

    https://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/nug...derbilt-071118

  5. #5

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Good article on it. They are assuming it's all guaranteed, and it's a great deal for Denver to lock him in at that price (actually $3.92 million). They say it's "next to nothing" to guarantee for Denver.

    https://www.denverstiffs.com/2018/7/...llion-contract

    EDIT--they're also assuming that he'll basically just rehab in year one and may miss the entire season.

  6. #6

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Poll results from that site:

    How happy are you about this Vanderbilt deal?
    81%
    Three years at the minimum is great for a player thought to be a first-round talent
    (56 votes)

    10%
    He’s such an injury risk that I don’t know how to feel, but it’s nice to have it done
    (7 votes)

    9%
    Y’all freak out about the weirdest second rounders. Morris, Cancar, Vanderbilt... calm down
    (6 votes)

  7. #7

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Not enough info yet for me to say if this says anything about the choice itself or not. It's obviously better than no contract or a very low contract, but as snoop said I'm curious about the guarantees, and we have to see how it looks against other possibilities as we see how he holds up.

    that's a lot of money, but it's a lot less than a mid first round contract. There's no one right answer in these things, but I'll see how it plays out a while before I draw a conclusion on the best decision he had at the time. I esp. want to know just how injured he is.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  8. #8
    Fab Five Darryl's Avatar
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    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    With this kind of money going around, when the NBA goes back to straight out of high school, college basketball as we know it is done

    Darryl

  9. #9

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl View Post
    With this kind of money going around, when the NBA goes back to straight out of high school, college basketball as we know it is done

    Darryl
    Strongly disagree with this.

    Sorry.
    "Shut your eyes and you'll burst into flame"

  10. #10

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Here's what the Denver paper said about it:

    Denver was able to get the third year on Vanderbilt’s deal without paying a lot for it. This was a three-year minimum deal, and while we’re assuming it’s guaranteed it is next to nothing to have to guarantee. Since Vanderbilt may miss the whole season resting and rehabilitating his foot and working on his standing shot, it’s good to get a pair of years after that in order to fully assess Vanderbilt before having to pay his free agent salary. This works for both sides - it’s easier for Vanderbilt to convince people to give him a larger deal in three years with a bigger and better body of work to be judged on.

  11. #11
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    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by Krank View Post
    Strongly disagree with this.

    Sorry.
    Yeah, I agree. Doing away with the dunk was going to destroy college basketball. Bringing the dunk back was going to destroy college basketball. The shot clock. The three pointer. The OAD rule, all were going to destroy college basketball.

    Ultimately, for me at least, I am less a fan of college basketball than I am Kentucky basketball. It will always be at the top of the pile so I will remain interested. Will a handful of the absolutely most talented kids end up bypassing college basketball? Yes, but that will not hurt the game overall. And, as Cal said this morning, UK is always going to eat first.

    I will say this to Darryl's point, if they are ever to get this sort of money in place for the G-League things will change. But that will never happen because there will never be the affinity for a G-League team like there is for a college team.
    "The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignoranceóit is the illusion of knowledge."
    - Daniel J. Boorstin

  12. #12

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakert View Post
    Yeah, I agree. Doing away with the dunk was going to destroy college basketball. Bringing the dunk back was going to destroy college basketball. The shot clock. The three pointer. The OAD rule, all were going to destroy college basketball.

    Ultimately, for me at least, I am less a fan of college basketball than I am Kentucky basketball. It will always be at the top of the pile so I will remain interested. Will a handful of the absolutely most talented kids end up bypassing college basketball? Yes, but that will not hurt the game overall. And, as Cal said this morning, UK is always going to eat first.

    I will say this to Darryl's point, if they are ever to get this sort of money in place for the G-League things will change. But that will never happen because there will never be the affinity for a G-League team like there is for a college team.
    Even then it won't change for me. I'm concerned with how UK is against the field, not about how good the individual players in the pool are overall throughout the nation. Heck, they're already not nearly as good as 30 years ago when seniors and juniors who had a clue, and still had great talent, dominated the college game.

  13. #13
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    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShoesSwayedBlue View Post
    Even then it won't change for me. I'm concerned with how UK is against the field, not about how good the individual players in the pool are overall throughout the nation. Heck, they're already not nearly as good as 30 years ago when seniors and juniors who had a clue, and still had great talent, dominated the college game.
    Oh, I agree completely.

    While I won't speak for Darryl, I do see his point, or think I do. If you skim off the top 50-75 players the quality of play would decline to a level where the quality would be significantly less. So watching UK would be like watching mid-major basketball. Regardless, I will still be a UK fan. Furthermore, if you skim off the top 75, UK under Cal are still going to get 4 of the next 10.
    "The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignoranceóit is the illusion of knowledge."
    - Daniel J. Boorstin

  14. #14

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by Krank View Post
    Strongly disagree with this.

    Sorry.
    Care to make a wager?

    The NBA is coming after the college game. They want a minor league. That's what will hit college basketball so hard. it will become college baseball at best, and those in charge of college basketball seem to be all good with that outcome. They won't when the money dries up, but for now they don't see it.

    the NCAA can fix it easily, and not spend a penny on it, but I imagine they're far too myopic.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  15. #15

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakert View Post

    I will say this to Darryl's point, if they are ever to get this sort of money in place for the G-League things will change. But that will never happen because there will never be the affinity for a G-League team like there is for a college team.
    It wont' take that kind of money for the G League to put college basketball on the level of baseball. It's exactly what they are planning.

    The NCAA can wipe them out by just letting college players earn money on their name as they please. No one would go to the G league before college unless they simply had no choice, and the NBA would be forced to pack the plan in, but the schools are so pretentious about the maintenance of their completely pseudo ethics and morality they won't do it.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  16. #16

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakert View Post
    Oh, I agree completely.

    While I won't speak for Darryl, I do see his point, or think I do. If you skim off the top 50-75 players the quality of play would decline to a level where the quality would be significantly less. So watching UK would be like watching mid-major basketball. Regardless, I will still be a UK fan. Furthermore, if you skim off the top 75, UK under Cal are still going to get 4 of the next 10.
    I doubt there will be anywhere near 50-75 players a year declaring for the draft out of high school. Even now a bunch of these kids that are one and done are kids from small schools no one has heard of. Kids aren't going to declare straight out of high school to go undrafted while they can play in college a year or two and become first round picks.

  17. #17

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Another side note, cal hinted in his interview seems like that Kings May sign a deal with the Kings

  18. #18

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithKSR View Post
    I doubt there will be anywhere near 50-75 players a year declaring for the draft out of high school. Even now a bunch of these kids that are one and done are kids from small schools no one has heard of. Kids aren't going to declare straight out of high school to go undrafted while they can play in college a year or two and become first round picks.
    How many are involved with the baseball draft?

    That's what this will look like except baseball is at least a little responsible and requires 3 years of college if you go to college. the NBA isn't likely to do any such thing. Kids will be getting pulled out mid-season from colleges before this is over.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  19. #19

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by anderwt View Post
    Another side note, cal hinted in his interview seems like that Kings May sign a deal with the Kings
    Did you mean "Diallo" may sign a deal with the Kings?
    "Shut your eyes and you'll burst into flame"

  20. #20

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    How many are involved with the baseball draft?

    That's what this will look like except baseball is at least a little responsible and requires 3 years of college if you go to college. the NBA isn't likely to do any such thing. Kids will be getting pulled out mid-season from colleges before this is over.
    The two aren't really comparable. The MLB draft is 40 rounds, so basketball has a lot smaller draft footprint.

    The NBA can't take kids from college midyear, unless they went through a draft and were undrafted. That makes them an NBA free agent, like Randolph Morris when he was signed after the college season ended in '07. Current NCAA rules do not allow an undrafted player to return to college.

  21. #21

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithKSR View Post
    The two aren't really comparable. The MLB draft is 40 rounds, so basketball has a lot smaller draft footprint.

    The NBA can't take kids from college midyear, unless they went through a draft and were undrafted. That makes them an NBA free agent, like Randolph Morris when he was signed after the college season ended in '07. Current NCAA rules do not allow an undrafted player to return to college.
    You're making a lot of assumptions that the NBA won't adapt. They want a minor league. They're going to change to get one as necessary.

    Why have a draft to play in the G League at all? They can set up a deal where you can sign as some kind of pre-draft free agent and play for pay, then they draft out of their own league. Lots of possibilities.

    The NBA makes their own rules. They want a minor league system. The agents want lots of kids to represent. The rules will work out.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  22. #22

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by Krank View Post
    Strongly disagree with this.

    Sorry.
    Iím actually with Krank. I donít think it will kill college basketball. Just change it.
    There are only so many NBA roster spots and so many G league spots. They simply canít take that many new guys every single year. The math just doesnít work. And this is assuming the NBA does it just right and it works.
    But, letís just say 50 high schoolers take the G-league/NBA rout as referenced above (which I think is overreaching).

    Would I still watch UK and college basketball if our team was made up of players #51-99?
    Absolutely.
    It would be different for sure.
    But we would once again have guys for 3-4 years. Shooting would be at a premium because the most athletic go pro. Team ball would prevail. Less iso and more motion and passing. Pressing and gimmick defenses would be used more.
    The best coaches would coach up the best teams. Not just for one year. For several. Not just coaches who get the most talent. Guys that can actually develop.
    The name on the front of the jersey would mean something again. We would have student athletes.
    And Kentucky will always be Kentucky.

  23. #23

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    For all you baseball fans, you guys watch a ton of college baseball versus the pros? What are those facilities like in college baseball by comparison?

    Oh it'll be different alright. Lots of $8 million coaching salaries and made for TV New York trips in college baseball? This party bus runs on cash, and hardcore fans watching isn't enough to sustain the game at the level to which fans have become accustomed.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  24. #24

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    You're making a lot of assumptions that the NBA won't adapt. They want a minor league. They're going to change to get one as necessary.

    Why have a draft to play in the G League at all? They can set up a deal where you can sign as some kind of pre-draft free agent and play for pay, then they draft out of their own league. Lots of possibilities.

    The NBA makes their own rules. They want a minor league system. The agents want lots of kids to represent. The rules will work out.
    It is a lot cheaper to allow the NCAA to be their minor league system. The G League exists primarily to supply a pool of players from which to pull players during the regular NBA season and to give young players PT during the season.

  25. #25

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    For all you baseball fans, you guys watch a ton of college baseball versus the pros? What are those facilities like in college baseball by comparison?

    Oh it'll be different alright. Lots of $8 million coaching salaries and made for TV New York trips in college baseball? This party bus runs on cash, and hardcore fans watching isn't enough to sustain the game at the level to which fans have become accustomed.
    College baseball is a completely different animal. College football and basketball were both big business and gathering fans before the professional leagues really took off. College teams were playing in the Rose Bowl in 1902, there was no NFL then. The NCAA men’s basketball tournament was first played in 1939, the NBA wasn’t founded until after WWII.

    MLB became big in the early 20th century, long before the College World Series came along. The MLB World Series was first played in 1903. The first CWS was played in 1947.

    For football and basketball the college versions spawned the professional leagues, for baseball the MLB spawned the college game. The NFL and NBA have only become popular in the span of a lot of our lifetimes. The NFL took off with the Super Bowl and the merger of the AFL and NFL in the 60s. The NBA took off with the ABA-NBA merger in the 70s.

    NCAA basketball makes its big money from the tournament and the tournament’s format. A Cinderella can appear and capture hearts due to the one loss and go home format. People watch the tournament, get involved in pools, fill out brackets even if they don’t watch a single regular season game.

    The pressure on the NBA to rescind the OAD rule is not really in the NBA’s best interest. The NBA was in a lull when a lot of kids jumped straight to the league, the OAD rule helped to revive popularity of the league, because people had some knowledge of who the young stars were before the entered the league.

  26. #26

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell KSR View Post
    Here's what the Denver paper said about it:

    Denver was able to get the third year on Vanderbilt’s deal without paying a lot for it. This was a three-year minimum deal, and while we’re assuming it’s guaranteed it is next to nothing to have to guarantee. Since Vanderbilt may miss the whole season resting and rehabilitating his foot and working on his standing shot, it’s good to get a pair of years after that in order to fully assess Vanderbilt before having to pay his free agent salary. This works for both sides - it’s easier for Vanderbilt to convince people to give him a larger deal in three years with a bigger and better body of work to be judged on.
    In a way its a bit like Cousins deal. Its kind of a win /win. Its not a huge risk on either side but has potential for big reward


    You can get bitter or you can get better....I choose better

  27. #27

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    In a way its a bit like Cousins deal. Its kind of a win /win. Its not a huge risk on either side but has potential for big reward
    I agree, not much of a risk at all. The deal is in line with the minimum wage for each of the three seasons. A million dollars or so isn’t much of a gamble when guys are signing for $30-$40 million a year.

    https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/06/...or-201718.html

    It should be noted that even first round contracts are only fully guaranteed for two years, the next two years are based upon a team’s desire to keep you.

  28. #28

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithKSR View Post
    It is a lot cheaper to allow the NCAA to be their minor league system. The G League exists primarily to supply a pool of players from which to pull players during the regular NBA season and to give young players PT during the season.
    You don't have to convince me, but that's what they're going to do. They're increasing salaries, etc. They're looking at the baseball model, which has actually become somewhat profitable in the minors. they're also looking at the billions college basketball brings in and wondering if they can cut into that market share.

    If they wanted to use college as their G league they'd be pushing 2 years of college for kids, not zero. They wouldn't be worried about increasing G league pay, etc. No, they have a plan, and it's not to work with the college game, it's to compete with it.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  29. #29
    Fiddlin' Five StuBleedsBlue2's Avatar
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    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by Krank View Post
    Strongly disagree with this.

    Sorry.
    Technically, he's right. We know college basketball inclusive of one and done's and their effect on the game. With those guys gone, it is a different game. It will look more like the late 90's and early 00's, but probably not quite as good, as more guys have options to make a lot of money.

  30. #30

    Re: Vanderbilt.... 3 years 4 million contract...

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    If they wanted to use college as their G league they'd be pushing 2 years of college for kids, not zero. They wouldn't be worried about increasing G league pay, etc. No, they have a plan, and it's not to work with the college game, it's to compete with it.
    The NBA players’ association won’t agree to two years. I don’t think the NBA would do away with the OAD if it weren’t for the Rice commission pushing for it.

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