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  1. #61

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    I really don't understand the rules of soccer that well, but the games are fun to watch.
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  2. #62

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Speaking of physical play, I'm always intrigued by the yellow card.

    A foul, of course, gives a little to a lot advantage to the team who was fouled, depending on the circumstances. Could create a free kick opportunity that leads directly to a score. Or if not in an advantageous position, it's a little advantage in that you get a kick/pass without concern over directly being defended.

    A yellow card itself isn't much of an enhancement to the foul...unless. Unless it's the 2nd one for the player, which means a red card, which means he has to come off the field and they play a man down the remainder of the game. Big advantage for the other team. But it's pretty rare that two yellow cards will be issued to the same player in a game.

    In high school, where free substitution is allowed, a yellow card means that a player must be removed from the game. That's a decent penalty. They can be reinserted, but only when a new substitution can occur. Almost always results in a minute or more of playing time off the field. Now, most coaches let the player cool off, get a rest, etc., so they use it "wisely," but what if it's a key player for you, and you have a team with little depth? Could be critical.

    In FIFA play, though, one thing I like about the yellow cards is that potentially they could matter on a cumulative basis. Take a team like Serbia who is a physical team who may draw more yellow cards than other teams. Well, you play only 3 matches to see if you advance, and ties are not uncommon to see who advances. FIFA world cup tiebreaker rules, in order are:

    1. Goal differential. Still, this can often be the same, especially when you have a fairly tight group with 1-goal differentials in most games.

    2. Goals scored. Can still be the same.

    3. Points from group stage matches involving the tied teams.
    4. Goal differential from group stage matches involving the tied teams.
    5. Goals scored from group stage matches involving the tied teams.

    3, 4 and 5 are similar, but involving the tied teams. Still can remain tied.

    Here's what I think is cool. Tiebreaker # 6 is the "Fair Play" Tiebreaker. At first, I thought, "how stupid. It's like a Juice Box participation, not whether you win or lose but how you play the game" kind of thing.

    But then I thought about it some more, and I came to like it. Truthfully, it won't be used often. But it *could* be.

    6. Fair Play Tiebreaker--look at disciplinary records in the tournament. Each yellow card takes one point off your total, an indirect red (two yellows) takes 3 points off, a straight red is 4 points off, and a direct red takes 5 points off your total. Team with highest total points remaining is the one who advances.

    To me, that gets back to the "beauty of the game." While you *can* play physical, there *may* be a consequence to it. There's the direct consequence of a foul in the game, but it can even be more brutal, with a tiebreaker knocking you out from advancing.

    There's a big discussion right now about Group B (Spain and Portugal's group), and how the Fair Play tiebreaker may end up being used to settle that group.

    Spain and Portugal are tied with 4 points each, and every tiebreaker currently, until Fair Play, have them deadlocked. So if they both win or draw their final game by the same score, Fair Play would decide it (Spain has one yellow, Portugal has two currently). They would both advance, but Spain would get the # 1 spot in the next round.

    But even more significant--what if both Spain and Portugal LOSE their last match by the same score? Then Fair Play would be needed to see who would get the # 2 spot, and who would go home.

    To me, I think that's cool. I didn't always think so, though. And truthfully, the example I'm using is probably a terrible one, because Spain and Portugal BOTH have played well without drawing cards, and 1 card to 2 cards is not terribly significant in my world. Now if it had been 1 card to 5 cards, that's something else.

  3. #63

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    For the Record, I HATE the Apple add with the wierd song. Geezz...

  4. #64

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by CGWildcat View Post
    I really don't understand the rules of soccer that well, but the games are fun to watch.
    I started to write a small primer/e-book kind of thing, and if I ever get time, I will revisit it. When my son first started playing about 13 years ago, I knew nothing. And continued that way for several years, frankly. I still don't know nearly enough, but there are some "keys" to me that made the game so much more enjoyable to watch. Here are a few of the ones that took me awhile to learn.

    Contact/fouls. This seems to create the most controversy. I don't think it's that controversial once you have the basic facts down.

    1. Not every physical contact is a foul. It's a little like basketball, where illegal contact is required.

    2. Both players are entitled to the space surrounding the ball, whether you have the ball or not. You can't push someone, trip them, etc., but you can use your body to move them out of the way. Think about it like "blocking out" in basketball, putting your hips on the guy before the ball comes off the backboard. Legal. But if you push the guy (often called "over the back"), then it's a foul, or illegal.

    3. Watch for slide tackles. That's where a defender slides to kick the ball away from the offensive player. If the offensive player happens to fall over the defensive player after he displaces the ball, it's legal. If they contact the player first (or never contact the ball), it's illegal.

    4. Yellow cards are given, for lack of a better description, and too-concise, intentional or egregious fouls. There's no direct consequence for a single yellow card, but if that same player gets a 2nd one, he is ejected from the game, and he cannot be replaced (they have to play a man down).

    5. Super-serious fouls are given a "red" card, with same consequence as above.

    Rules of the game.

    6. It's called FOOTball for a reason (as Mick stated earlier in the thread). You are not supposed to contact the ball with your hands (unless you are the keeper).

    7. If you do contact the ball with your hands, you look to whether you played the ball with your hands (or arms), or if it was just an inadvertent striking of your hand or arms. I watch so many club games involving teenagers, and parents yell, "hand ball" every time a ball strikes a player. It's frustrating, because 80% of the time it wasn't anything the player did, it was the opposing player that just drilled a shot into him. Look for things like whether the hand/arm is extended unnaturally away from the body. If the arm is tucked normally, or swinging while running normally, it's not a hand ball. The consequence is a free kick to the other team (same as a foul).

    8. One of the most confusing rules is the offside (not offsideS) rule. All-too-general, but a ball cannot be played to a player in an offside position. That means that if part of the player is beyond the last defender, he is offside and cannot have the ball played to him. This can be VERY difficult to determine in live action, because the best players "time" their runs so they are at full speed at the last defender when the pass is made to them.

    9. In FIFA play, you are allowed only 3 substitutions per game. When a player is removed from a game, he cannot re-enter the game (with one minor exception, that played a huge part in one World Cup game so far). There's a huge emphasis on conditioning, as these guys may run 8 miles in a 90-minute game, and most of them do not come out of the game. The minor exception is if a player is taken off the field due to injury, AND not replaced--i.e., it's a minor injury, he needs to be tended to, and the team decides to play 10v11, a man down, for a short time--then that player MAY re-enter the game.

    Side note for Dads/Moms/Grandparents--when you see kids play, this rule may be totally irrelevant, or it may have something similar. For example, in high school play, there is no limit to substitutions, subject to your roster and a couple of other rules. Free substitution is allowed--common for a player to be taken out to get a rest, and then come back in. But in club ball, which occupies the other half of the year, there is a limit on substitution. At least in our Region, if a player is removed, he cannot return *in that half.* So the rule is similar, but by halves. You still see the better players playing all 45 minutes in each half because of it. You will see sometimes a team taking a player out with 10 minutes to go in the half, inserting fresh legs, and letting that player get 10 minutes of rest plus halftime.

    10. One of the most controversial rules is the "time" rule. There are no timeouts; the clock just keeps running all the time. The rationale behind this from many years ago is that soccer is supposed to be a "flowing," beautiful game. Sure, you have to stop the action for a foul, injury, etc., but the general idea is it keeps going. That's also part of the reason why there are limited substitutions. In fairness, a 90-minute game, though, is not a real 90-minute game, if you didn't account for the stoppages in play. So the referees keep track of how long play is "stopped" because a goal was scored, fouls occurred, injuries occurred, etc. And at the end of the 45-minutes, they announce how much "stoppage time" is added. You'll often see a +3, +4, etc. at the end of each half. You can even have stoppage time in stoppage time--have goals scored, injuries, etc. They don't announce that, they just keep going. So there can be a little bit of uncertainty as to when the game actually ends, which frustrates a lot of people used to finality with a timeclock. Also--and this one can be frustrating--but generally, the officials do not stop play just because time "runs out." If a play is in motion, or you have something like a corner kick awarded before time expires, they will allow them to "finish the play." I like to think of it a little like baseball in that regard. You finish plays, rather than just adhere strictly to the clock.

    Now club ball, you won't see that as much because they have strict time schedules at fields, etc. They just live with it. And high school is a little different there, too--there's a nod to American basketball notions, where when the horn sounds, the game is over. I've seen high school games in 3 different states, and their time rules are different, too. For example, in Alabama, the officials will tell the timekeeper to "stop the clock" when a goal occurs, or when an injury, or for whatever reason the stoppage in play is significant. And when the horn sounds, the game is over. Meanwhile, in Tennessee, the clock never stops...until it reaches 2 minutes to go in the half. The reason is that the officials are keeping time on the field, accounting for stoppage time, etc., so the scoreboard clock is provided solely as a courtesy to spectators to get a rough idea of how much time is left in the half/game. They don't run it to 0:00, because they don't want it to be confusing. First game I saw in Tennessee I thought the scoreboard was broken. The next game I saw, the next day at a different high school, they had a very nice introduction, and the announcers stated the scoreboard clock would run until 2:00 remaining in each half as a courtesy, and it did not represent the official time. I think they knew it was a team from out-of-state, and many of us weren't used to that, so they did that as a courtesy, which I appreciated.

    Anyway, those are some of the most basic rules. I don't know many others, but those helped me enjoy the game more when I learned them.

  5. #65

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    My e-book primer I have in progress also includes a discussion of the various world leagues, and compares it to NCAA football. The different leagues are almost like the different conferences in college football (or basketball, or whatever, but since soccer = football, I use that for comparison.) That part is still confusing to me to explain entirely, especially when you start talking about relegation and stuff.

  6. #66

  7. #67

    OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    My son and I disagreed on the non-called foul with the Swiss player in the box. I thought a VAR-assisted foul should've been called, he didn't agree that it was clear and obvious.

  8. #68

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Wow, thanks for all that Darrell!
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  9. #69

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    germany score with 6 secomds left in stoppage time to beat sweden 2-1


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  10. #70

    OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    germany score with 6 secomds left in stoppage time to beat sweden 2-1
    I didn't see it, but I was listening to the broadcast while I ran. Incredible, and likely saves Germany from being knocked out. Crazy.

  11. #71
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    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell KSR View Post
    I didn't see it, but I was listening to the broadcast while I ran. Incredible, and likely saves Germany from being knocked out. Crazy.
    It was an amazing goal and an unbelievable sequence of events. They added five minutes at the end of the half and it was extremely late in stoppage time that Germany scored on a free kick from just outside the box on the left side.

    I had mentioned being in Manchester for the England/Tunisia match. We watched the second half in a large bar and it was very interesting to watch the fans go from "we've got this" to "getting a bit nervous" to "why do we have a national team" to pure elation on the final goal. But I will say it was a bit subdued compared to when I was there in 2004 for the Euro Cup or in 2006 for the WC. Still, lots of fun. They do love their football over there!
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  12. #72

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    pulling for England, but good for Panama! England up 6-1 as Panama finally scores


    You can get bitter or you can get better....I choose better

  13. #73

    OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    I was watching a little bit of the Senegal/Japan match. Senegal scored a goal in the 11th minute, and Japan tried it up in the 33rd minute.

    When Japan scored their goal 22 minutes later the announcer said, Japan has come “screaming” back to tie the match...

    Really?? almost 23 minutes equals a “screaming” come back?


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  14. #74

    OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    ...and now 38 minutes later in the 71st minute Senegal came “screaming” back to take the lead 2-1


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  15. #75

    OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Now that’s what I call screaming back!! Japan just scored to even it up in just under 5 minutes in the 78th minute...


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  16. #76

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Very exciting 2nd half! My son had recorded it, so I was delayed in watching...and forgot to fast forward through halftime.

  17. #77
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    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Potential for some very interesting goings-on in the England/Belgium match on Thursday.

    Whoever wins the match wins the group. However, a tie makes things interesting. They are equal on goal differential and goals for. The next tie breaker is "fair play" which is based on yellow/red cards. Currently, England has the upper hand with only 2 vs 3 for Belgium.

    But, from the article: "if Brazil win Group E and Germany finish second in F, they will be in the same half of the draw as the Group G winners. Brazil would meet Germany in the round of 16, and then potentially play the winners of Group G in the quarterfinals.

    However, it could be more favourable for the runners-up in Group G, who could face a quarterfinal against, for instance, Mexico or Switzerland rather than winners of Brazil vs. Germany.

    The team who gets the most yellow cards could end up with what is perceived to be the better half of the draw."


    Therefore, late in a tied game you could see both teams trying to draw yellow/red cards in order to come in second in the group.

    http://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-worl...o-yellow-cards
    Last edited by Bakert; 06-24-2018 at 09:21 PM.
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  18. #78
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    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    I wouldn't call a game against Mexico a favorable outcome. From what I have seen they may be the most dangerous team in the tournament. They are not the Mexico of old who played defense, with little offense. Mexico's offense is dangerous. They are one of the four best teams in the WC.
    Real Fan since 1958

  19. #79

    OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Agree on Mexico. They are on a roll. I didn't do enough research, but their coach is very solid and the team is stable. Wish I had picked them to go a lot farther than I did in my bracket.

  20. #80

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell KSR View Post
    Agree on Mexico. They are on a roll. I didn't do enough research, but their coach is very solid and the team is stable. Wish I had picked them to go a lot farther than I did in my bracket.
    I am just not sure. 2 years ago this MExico team was in turmoil. Have they really changed that much? Germany has not looked impressive in either game...is Suisse really that strong? I am still not a believer.

  21. #81
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    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaCat View Post
    I am just not sure. 2 years ago this MExico team was in turmoil. Have they really changed that much? Germany has not looked impressive in either game...is Suisse really that strong? I am still not a believer.
    You are correct, but two years is a long time in sports. Did’t Kentucky go to the region finals the year after team turmoil? If you have talent you can fix many other problems. Mexico has always had the talent.
    Real Fan since 1958

  22. #82
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    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    One of the few good things about being home on rehab is I've had lots of time to watch the World Cup this time around, and I have to say I'm enjoying it thoroughly. I probably know less about the game than a novice, but there have been so many teams I find fun to watch.

    Mrs. BEvans spent a summer in Uruguay, so she's all in with them and they've played well so far, so she's having a fun tournament so far.

    I never get tired of the Volkswagen commercials where fans of other countries are touting why Americans should root for their team. I only wish they'd done more.
    Last edited by KSRBEvans; 06-25-2018 at 01:44 PM.
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  23. #83

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by MickintheHam View Post
    You are correct, but two years is a long time in sports. Did’t Kentucky go to the region finals the year after team turmoil? If you have talent you can fix many other problems. Mexico has always had the talent.
    Really good point Mick.

  24. #84

    OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by CGWildcat View Post
    Wow, thanks for all that Darrell!
    Sorry, I didn't see your post, but you're welcome. It's the kind of stuff I was putting together in the little primer, so it's no big deal.

    Here's an example of a slide tackle (the defender started it too late but sort of had to, which made it a little higher than it should've been). He barely nicked the ball, diverting it about 20-30° away, and the offensive player then tripped over him. This was late in the game of a 1-0 contest and helped preserv the win, although the keeper said he would've stopped it.

    (Blurry pic was a still from a video, sorry).

    Caused quite a controversy in a high school game I saw two years ago, but the referees made the right call.

  25. #85

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by KSRBEvans View Post
    One of the few good things about being home on rehab is I've had lots of time to watch the World Cup this time around, and I have to say I'm enjoying it thoroughly. I probably know less about the game than a novice, but there have been so many teams I find fun to watch.

    Mrs. BEvans spent a summer in Uruguay, so she's all in with them and they've played well so far, so she's having a fun tournament so far.

    I never get tired of the Volkswagen commercials where fans of other countries are touting why Americans should root for their team. I only wish they'd done more.
    Uruguay apparently waxed home Russia today, 3-0. Didn't see any of it, but they apparently are playing very well.

  26. #86

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Holy Crap! Morroco just went up 2-1 on Spain in the 87th minute!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  27. #87

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell KSR View Post
    Uruguay apparently waxed home Russia today, 3-0. Didn't see any of it, but they apparently are playing very well.
    Russia sit a bunch of people with Yellow cards because they did not want to risk losing them for next game.

  28. #88

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Spain ties it in injury time

  29. #89

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell KSR View Post
    This may fall completely flat, but just in case anybody is interested.

    I have Brazil defeating Argentina in the finals. Who do you have?

    Group A: I have Uruguay and Egypt advancing. Russia looked great v a bad Saudi Arabia team, and they're hosting, but I have them knocked out. Might be a bad move on my part, but I like Egypt.

    Stick to basketball, or baseball or something. Egypt was outscored 6-2 in the tournament, had 0 points, and finished in last place. Uruguay and Russia advance (1-2).

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell KSR View Post
    Group B: Spain & Portugal
    Got this one right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell KSR View Post
    Group C: France & Denmark. Folks are giving up on France because of the draw with the young U.S. team last week, but if you saw the game (which I did), France dominated the game. Just....soccer. Crap happens. I wouldn't worry about France, and think I might should have carried them farther.
    Blind squirrel continues, got this one right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell KSR View Post
    Group D: Argentina and Croatia. Iceland is everybody's darling, but I couldn't pull the trigger on their Cinderella run.
    Still open. Croatia leads with 6 points after two matches, Nigeria with 3 points, and Iceland and Argentina with 1 point each. I have Argentina going all the way to the finals, so this is shaping up to be a huge miss for me. Croatia will advance.

    Croatia plays Iceland today at 1pm CT; Argentina plays Nigeria. Argentina needs to beat Nigeria and gain those 3 points, or else they are dead. Even if they do, I haven't looked at tiebreakers, but if Iceland beats Croatia--and Croatia may be resting players--Argentina could still be in trouble.

    EDIT--Croatia won, Argentina won, identical 2-1 scores, both advance. Lucky.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell KSR View Post
    Group E: Brazil and Switzerland
    With one match remaining, Brazil and Switzerland are 1-2 with 4 points each (Brazil holding the tiebreaker currently), but Serbia sitting at 3 points right behind. Serbia and Brazil play tomorrow at 1; Brazil needs a win or draw to advance. Switzerland plays Costa Rica.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell KSR View Post
    Group F: Germany and Mexico. Sweden makes this a tough bracket to pick.
    Thought Germany might be toast, but that last second goal kept them alive. Mexico with 6 points leads after two matches, Germany and Sweden tied with 3 points, and South Korea with 0 (I think is eliminated). Germany v South Korea, and Sweden v Mexico remaining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell KSR View Post
    Group G: Belgium and England
    Both with 6 points after two matches, will both advance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell KSR View Post
    Group H: Colombia and Poland
    Another big miss by me. Japan and Senegal sit atop the standings after two matches with 4 points each; Colombia with 3, and Poland 0 is eliminated. Senegal v Colombia; Japan v Poland remain. Colombia needs to beat Senegal to advance or else I'll miss both of my picks here. Sigh.
    Last edited by Darrell KSR; 06-26-2018 at 04:54 PM.

  30. #90

    Re: OT: World Cup Soccer Talk

    I know why it was like it was but they might as well have not played that France/Denmark match today. SNOOZEFEST!

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