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  1. #61

    Re: No, there's no deep state

    Quote Originally Posted by kingcat View Post
    Then there is no cause for concern. It will be exposed as a farce and everyone will go home happy.

    I'll be happy myself knowing democracy endures and the republic is safe.

    And id like to point out the majority of meaningful opinions is not only that of the far right. About three out of ten who consider themselves conservatives agree with me.

    Because of that, my friends here discard them as as "not really republicans" That is a shame imho.
    And it's the reason some of our good friends here who ARE Republican no longer frequent this forum.

    Anyway Im on an island here. So I'll back out.
    Yes, there is cause for concern. That is the point you are missing. The investigation isnt focing on Russian Influencing the election. If it were it would be going after the DNC as well.


    You can get bitter or you can get better....I choose better

  2. #62

    Re: No, there's no deep state

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    and yet it seems Mueller et al have ignored the Russian Democrat connection. This started with a dossier created by a Russian operative and given to the CLINTON campaign who used it.That in and of itself shows more "Russian involvement" than anything they have come up with on Trump. I'm like you. I don't want Russia or anybody influencing our election (including noncitizens/illegals who vote) but Russia ain't our friend. They are our enemies despite what Obama and Clinton thought, and as our enemies they will try such tactics. The USA is no different, we just do it to our allies like Israel.
    Its funny that now suddenly Russia is a huge threat, when Romney and the GOP were saying it while Hillary was pushing the "reset button" and no one said a thing about it.

    Yes they are our enemy. DUH. No one is debating that any more, only the Obama/Clinton camps ever wanted to be their buddies.

    But if one really thinks Russia is such a huge threat to the American way of life then fine, why the Hades aren't we investigating Uranium One and Podesta and the dossier sources and the spending the Russian bots did for Sanders, etc.?

    The only way to not be a total hypocrite on the Russian threat is to call for an independent counsel to investigate ALL of these things, yet Mueller is only targeting Trump. And his staff has about 90% hard core Clinton campaign donors on it. Gee, wonder what's going on there.....


    Ironic how the Left has gone so totally Joe McCarthy on this one isn't it? with these modern Communists behind every door and need to be ferreted out? Yet just like McCarthy they aren't doing a broad investigation but just targeting their political enemies. Yeah, that's intellectually honest. Sure. And McCarthy was a great patriot too I suppose.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  3. #63

    Re: No, there's no deep state

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Yes, there is cause for concern. That is the point you are missing. The investigation isnt focing on Russian Influencing the election. If it were it would be going after the DNC as well.
    Let me know if you can get this basic fact accepted. I've tried for many pages, no traction so far.

    At this point the investigation is focusing on anything it can to "get Trump". That's why Uranium One, with a FBI witness testifying Russians influenced the government,isn't even on the Mueller letter of engagement, and yet he's going after Manafort for totally unrelated things from 2003.

    Anyone can see what's going on. If this were for real BOTH sides would be under the microscope and Huma Abedin with her foreign "pay for play" emails would be sitting right next to Manafort.

    Hell. we have hard texts from senior FBI people talking about this very "insurance policy" type of action. I think if these hacks stood up with their arms around De Niro and said "F Trump" people would still act like this was all some totally legit, honest deal. In fact I'd bet my house on it. Nothing short of "I ..... being of sound mind and uncoerced do hereby admit I engaged in activities to hurt the Trump campaign and Presidency", and even then 30% of the Left would still think it was OK.
    Last edited by CitizenBBN; 06-17-2018 at 09:03 PM.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  4. #64

    Re: No, there's no deep state

    He was FBI director at the time this occurred with Manafort. I’m sure he was aware and knew he’d be an easy target.
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    Let me know if you can get this basic fact accepted. I've tried for many pages, no traction so far.

    At this point the investigation is focusing on anything it can to "get Trump". That's why Uranium One, with a FBI witness testifying Russians influenced the government,isn't even on the Mueller letter of engagement, and yet he's going after Manafort for totally unrelated things from 2003.

    Anyone can see what's going on. If this were for real BOTH sides would be under the microscope and Huma Abedin with her foreign "pay for play" emails would be sitting right next to Manafort.

    Hell. we have hard texts from senior FBI people talking about this very "insurance policy" type of action. I think if these hacks stood up with their arms around De Niro and said "F Trump" people would still act like this was all some totally legit, honest deal. In fact I'd bet my house on it. Nothing short of "I ..... being of sound mind and uncoerced do hereby admit I engaged in activities to hurt the Trump campaign and Presidency", and even then 30% of the Left would still think it was OK.

  5. #65

    Re: No, there's no deep state

    Quote Originally Posted by Catonahottinroof View Post
    He was FBI director at the time this occurred with Manafort. I’m sure he was aware and knew he’d be an easy target.
    We should all feel great about Mueller. He's got such "bi partisan support". You know, from people who have gotten rich spending 30-40 years in Washington while almost nothing got done. Those people.

    Meanwhile, he hired Strozk, hired a guy who was also a political climber from Sothern District new York who has been found guilty MULTIPLE times for various levels of prosecutorial misconduct, and Dershowitz himself suspects he was involved in keeping an innocent man in jail to avoid having it shown they messed up.

    here's a really good article on Mueller while at FBI, and why it is that no one seems to want to question him, and if you do you are somehow undermining the rule of law:

    http://thefederalist.com/2018/04/19/...al-discretion/

    For those who don't click, it lays out people who were totally innocent whose lives were ruined due to the FBI's tactics, including at least one suicide over it. Totally innocent, but the FBI went after him as the anthrax mailer with questionable science, ruined his life.

    Sound familiar to what we're seeing now?

    here's a nice quick view of his lead prosecutor, Andrew Weissman, and how he's managed to get entire unanimous decisions overturning his actions:

    http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...-interested-in

    here's a story on his withholding of exculpatory evidence in a civil rights case:

    https://saraacarter.com/muellers-pit...previous-case/

    that article is talking with a former ACLU lawyer who had the issue with him.

    I've already linked the Dershowitz article somewhere. there are a BUNCH more.

    Almost all of his team are not just Democrats but Democratic DONORS (most people don't actually write campaign checks, but in Washington the connected ones sure do), and there is a long long list of them focusing more on getting someone than on getting justice. They've ruined numerous innocent lives in the process, in many cases knowing they are innocent, and don't even apologize.

    Yeah of course they have bi-partisan support. The Democrats all supported Comey until he did something they didnt' like, and then the GOP did. Right now Mueller is out there to "get Trump", and the elites and leadership in Washington elites certainly agree they want that done, so yeah they all support him.

    But that doesn't go to his credibility. It just goes to his political position within Washington. If you want to look at his credibility you have to read these articles and interviews with the attorneys and people who have actually had dealings with these guys.

    That's a much less rosy tale.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  6. #66

    Re: No, there's no deep state

    Three of the five FBI agents who were evidenced to have shown anti-Trump bias in the recent IG report worked on the Mueller investigation. This should trouble all Americans, regardless of political views.

  7. #67

    Re: No, there's no deep state

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithKSR View Post
    Three of the five FBI agents who were evidenced to have shown anti-Trump bias in the recent IG report worked on the Mueller investigation. This should trouble all Americans, regardless of political views.
    And all evidence of their bias was hidden from Congressional oversight, including the "smoking gun" "we won't let him" text.

    that alone should be starting five alarm fires. it's blatant, beyond dispute the FBI/DOJ redacted information from legal Congressional oversight NOT to protect "national security" or "sources and methods", but to hide the vehemently anti-Trump views of key people in both investigations.

    That's not their decision to make, whether you think the texts prove anything or not. The very fact they made that call is a violation of the law and an abrogation of their role as public servants answerable, through elected representatives, to The People.

    They have withheld embarrassing and potentially damning evidence to protect themselves and their image. That's illegal, it's a crime, and it's a clear indication they cannot be trusted.

    Seriously, what do they have to be caught doing before people decide you can't trust the FBI in this situation? They're clearly covering their butts here, it's beyond any kind of dispute. They were caught red handed.

    Heck, they even redacted a comment about a $70,000 table b/c they knew it would be embarrassing. if they are willing to violate US code to hide something so small an ephemeral, what is the big stuff they are willing to hide?
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  8. #68

    Re: No, there's no deep state

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithKSR View Post
    Three of the five FBI agents who were evidenced to have shown anti-Trump bias in the recent IG report worked on the Mueller investigation. This should trouble all Americans, regardless of political views.
    It does not trouble those who cant accept they lost an election, a god given election that they were destine to win and only something nefarious could have altered that outcome


    You can get bitter or you can get better....I choose better

  9. #69
    Fab Five dan_bgblue's Avatar
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  10. #70

    Re: No, there's no deep state

    I've been extremely disappointed in Jeff Sessions as the AG.

  11. #71

    Re: No, there's no deep state

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithKSR View Post
    I've been extremely disappointed in Jeff Sessions as the AG.
    Honestly this move by him should be Trump's excuse to fire his butt. he's horrid, on many levels.

    There's all the FBI/DOJ stuff, where he's absolutely doing nothing to drain the swamp, but then there's his decision to go back to war on pot, implementation of the zero tolerance policy at the border, and IMO most glaringly his hard-on man love for "civil forfeiture", or the forced confiscation of money and assets by law enforcement from people who have not even been charged with a crime. You know, totalitarianism.

    He' stunningly bad, and not just b/c of the Russia stuff or any of the political stuff. His priorities are whacked, and IMO anyone who thinks civil forfeiture is even legal should be removed from office on basic principle.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  12. #72

    Re: No, there's no deep state

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    Honestly this move by him should be Trump's excuse to fire his butt. he's horrid, on many levels.

    There's all the FBI/DOJ stuff, where he's absolutely doing nothing to drain the swamp, but then there's his decision to go back to war on pot, implementation of the zero tolerance policy at the border, and IMO most glaringly his hard-on man love for "civil forfeiture", or the forced confiscation of money and assets by law enforcement from people who have not even been charged with a crime. You know, totalitarianism.

    He' stunningly bad, and not just b/c of the Russia stuff or any of the political stuff. His priorities are whacked, and IMO anyone who thinks civil forfeiture is even legal should be removed from office on basic principle.
    The problem with removing Sessions at this time is that the Dems will obstruct and delay the confirmation of a successor, which leaves Rosenstein as the de facto AG. As bad as Sessions has been I think Rosenstein would be worse.

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