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  1. #1
    Fiddlin' Five badrose's Avatar
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    Bill Clinton: Norms of ‘What You Can Do to Someone Against Their Will’ Have Changed

    Cool as a rule, but sometimes bad is bad.

  2. #2

    Re: Bill Clinton: Norms of ‘What You Can Do to Someone Against Their Will’ Have Chang

    It was obvious that even when Colbert or whoever on late night gave him a "do over", he still sees himself as the victim in all of these controversies. In fact that's completely clear.

    I laugh about the attacks on Trump and how self centered he his, how ego driven he is, etc., as if he's some exception to the norm. He is those things, but Clinton and Hillary have got to be the most self absorbed tone deaf people ever, and Obama was too. So are many if not most Presidents for that matter.

    Trump has a "cult of personality"??? The Clintons have a cult around them that would put Trump's camp to shame, or anyone else's. They've covered decades of sin and wrong.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  3. #3
    Rupp's Runt
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    Re: Bill Clinton: Norms of ‘What You Can Do to Someone Against Their Will’ Have Chang

    Bill Clinton has always enjoyed a positive relationship with the press and Hollywood. That is ending now with these comments.

    Clinton can’t ever campaign again. Does the press want to do this? No because the #me too movement is convenient in how picks and chooses who it condemns.

    Now with regards to trump and his cult of personality...trumps cult of personality is such in my mind that decent people have joined with not so decent people to rally around a bully who has more in common with dictators than democratically elected leaders.

    Clinton wasn’t cultivating a persona that would allow him to tear up the Constitution. I believe Trump is.

    I hate to not be able to say anything good about Trump, but I am really having a hard time to find anything I generally support. I am neutral on the Supreme Court appointment as gorsuch ( totally butchered spelling) is qualified. On principle and the Constitution, obama should have been able to appoint a judge in his last term.

    We have taken this thread into a trump thing.

    Back on target. Clinton’s full quote should have been cited as the full statement may have given him some cover in a poorly described evolution of the term harassment.

    That said, Clinton’s choice of words shed a light on his character. More charming, better educated, more eloquent but in terms of treating women, Clinton is cut from the same cloth as trump-his former democratic supporter. They are both pigs.
    This will be a day longer remembered. It has seen the end of Pitino and will soon see the end of Louisville. September 27, 2017

  4. #4
    Fiddlin' Five
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    Re: Bill Clinton: Norms of ‘What You Can Do to Someone Against Their Will’ Have Chang

    William Jefferson Clinton "finally" dropped the veil of camouflage that he has always had raised around himself and exposed his true persona.
    Former POTUS or not, the guy is not worth spitting on if he was on fire.
    There is a reason the guy has always been called "Slick Willie". And it's NOT because he's a good guy.

  5. #5

    Re: Bill Clinton: Norms of ‘What You Can Do to Someone Against Their Will’ Have Chang

    History you have become delusional with your Trump hate. He is the most pro-Constitution POTUS we have had since Reagan was President.

    On to the original topic. Clinton’s comments are quite disturbing.

  6. #6
    Rupp's Runt
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    Re: Bill Clinton: Norms of ‘What You Can Do to Someone Against Their Will’ Have Chang

    Delusional is a personal term. That is crossing the line a little bit Keith. You may question objectivity or my analysis. The tone and word choice I object to most earnestly.

    This president in the White House, when discussing gun rights, made the statement that he was open to waving due process and removing guns from US citizens due to potential mental health concerns and not certified mental health issues.

    I listen to what he says. All of it. I can't tell when he is making a joke in part because the business of being president is not a reality tv gig or a stand up routine.

    For instance this quote: “I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

    “Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

    Anybody but Orangello that says that and you Keith among others aren't letting that go.

    Trump is not about the Constitution or the country--just himself.
    This will be a day longer remembered. It has seen the end of Pitino and will soon see the end of Louisville. September 27, 2017

  7. #7

    Re: Bill Clinton: Norms of ‘What You Can Do to Someone Against Their Will’ Have Chang

    Trump is about pragmatism. He's a true populist. Populists do whatever is expedient, but that doesn't make them any more a risk than an ideologue.

    He's bound to say a lot of things that I don't think are Constitutional. Obama sure said a ton of them. Bush II said them. It's not exactly new ground.

    President's push their agenda, often it ends up in court, it goes through a process, we get an outcome. States and others sued Obama and his actions, same for every President.

    Why do you think that system wont' function just the same with Trump? It has been for over a year, with judges issuing restraining orders, issues working up to SCOTUS, etc. Happens in every administration, yet somehow when it happens in this one the world is going to end.

    500 days in, not one dire prediction is even close to coming true. When he wins his 2nd term and we have 4 years of history will that still be the view, that democracy will end with him?
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  8. #8

    Re: Bill Clinton: Norms of ‘What You Can Do to Someone Against Their Will’ Have Chang

    And re the gun issue and due process, honestly as a huge 2nd amendment person, I also know the biggest threat to our gun rights is the continued mass shootings by insane lunatics. So I want those stopped in the worst way.

    What we need is a "due process" that is far more expedient than what we have now. I get Trump's frustration. The church shooting in Texas happened in part b/c the damned department of defense didn't enter the guy's info into the NICS system. If the feds themselves won't inform the other feds, how much hope do we have?

    We already have states creating these kinds of "fast lanes" for restraining orders to protect people in bad domestic situations, and we need to do that for this issue as well.

    We can't have confiscation without some kind of resolution, but we will need some kind of fast tracked process whereby a judge can be on call in an area for any such emergency, domestic or gun violence related, and law enforcement can take action very quickly. BUT there must be an equally expedient process for a fair resolution of the situation, and not one where the local sheriff just gets to hold onto someone's firearms indefinitely or months on end as it gets resolved.

    But even as pro 2nd Amendment as I am, I see Trump's frustration with the Florida shooting. HEre we have a kid with dozens of incidents with police, all kinds of domestic troubles, expelled from school for issues, TWICE reported to the FBI as a threat to be a SCHOOL SHOOTER, and NOTHING was done. Hell, even I am wondering what we have to do to get action in these situations.

    Many if not most of these shootings we have had authorities who KNEW there were potential issues, and nothing was done. Maybe the answer isn't to suspend due process, but surely there is a way to spur these authorities into taking action.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  9. #9
    Fiddlin' Five bigsky's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Clinton: Norms of ‘What You Can Do to Someone Against Their Will’ Have Chang

    What you need to understand is what Clinton is saying; you can’t glower at a person, or hold them accountable, or stand too close to them, or raise your voice, or perhaps even be in the same building if you look like someone who threatened someone you never met. If they are fearful of you, you gotta go. Bill, and leftists, now conflate these with rape.

    He’s not dumb. He’s flying the #metoo meme at the same time as shucking and jiving in his usual way around his criminal and unethical behavior. He’s the guy with the cigar and 20 year old intern, unrepentant, making a statement that now if you stand to close to a person and they din’t like it, you’re just like me.

    Listen! Understand! Things are far worse than anyone can imagine.

    Most of us don’t get close but I did. Trump gives us a short break, but the days of any economic or personal freedoms are numbered.

  10. #10

    Re: Bill Clinton: Norms of ‘What You Can Do to Someone Against Their Will’ Have Chang

    He is correct but he needs to just STFU....

    "against their will" isn't the right terminology though. I'd say what some "claim" as sexual harassment has changed. Heck, I have girls here that talk about their periods, tells jokes that will make a sailor blush, relay stories about their sexual escapades, etc..... then you inadvertently brush them, its sexual harassment.

    A buddy of mine, 2 years ago was arrested for "touching" a 15 year old girl he was teaching guitar to. She accused him of giving her 3 Mikes hard lemonade and toughing her above the shirt. Guy was arrested and thrown in jail overnight, later rearrested overnight, etc, 2 years later the case is still on going. On this girl facebook page (at the time) was pictures of her topless wearing only her fathers tie, photos of her drinking margaritas with her parents, explicit sexual and drug dialogues with her boyfriend...all of which my buddy has submitted as evidence. Initially she accused her father's business partner of doing this then it changed. Now all this supposedly happened during a guitar teaching session in a 20 by 20 room (imagine accidentally bumping into a student in a 20 x 20 room), upstairs where you had to navigate a SPIRAL staircase (imagine doing that at 15 years old and having drunk 3 Mikes Hard Lemonades) where your parents picked you up and drove you home without noticing anything different (he was accused days later). Now the case hasn't been dismissed despite all this. Now he did have beer in the room...I know because I'd go there with my son and kick back one or two during his lesson, or three or four during mine. And as a musician, Dan (his name) had all kinds of interesting stuff in his room (Kingcat can confirm) which the police found (from women's panties to electrical toys)...none of which I used. But the case won't be dropped because of the times we live in.

    But having Bill Clinton as your spokesperson involving anything related to sexual harassment or against your will, is ridiculous. The man needs to just shut the .... up.
    Last edited by Doc; 06-15-2018 at 03:08 PM.


    You can get bitter or you can get better....I choose better

  11. #11

    Re: Bill Clinton: Norms of ‘What You Can Do to Someone Against Their Will’ Have Chang

    The wife wont let me have those things.

    I'l confirm there's nothing like an electrical thing solo during a good rock tune though.

    (Not to make light of a serious situation)
    Last edited by kingcat; 06-17-2018 at 12:03 PM.

    “Before I leave I’d like to see our politics begin to return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations,
    “I would like to see us recover our sense that we are more alike than different. We are citizens of a republic made of shared ideals forged in a new world to replace the tribal enmities that tormented the old one. Even in times of political turmoil such as these, we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it.”
    -Patriot and Senator. John McCain

  12. #12
    Fiddlin' Five bigsky's Avatar
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    Re: Bill Clinton: Norms of ‘What You Can Do to Someone Against Their Will’ Have Chang

    https://quillette.com/2018/06/21/a-l...him-collapsed/

    A very long read, and yes, it’s Canada, but campuses all over the US including my alma mater are just like this. Social media, the Huffington Post, all the left, lynched this guy, and even attacked Margaret Atwood of the handmaid’s tale for standing up FOR HIS RIGHTS.

    This guy just did an interview. His life is ruined and he thinks of suicide daily. The Title IX witch hunt departments have driven people to suicide already, even in Montana. Campuses are more similar to each other in their abuse of due process than they are the rest of the United States.

    Bill Clinton’s interview where he talked about “against her will” is as evil as anything I ever saw on tv outside of war and murder. He is an accused rapist and sexual predator and liar and he’s intimating that doing anything ANYTHING “against her will” think about it, a failing grade or a verbal rebuke or standing too close, is just like him.

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