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  1. #1

    Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    LeBron James' media company produced.



  2. #2

    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    Look I get it, NCAA kills it, but devils advocate here, why don’t people get mad at Nike or CBS or TNT for shelling out this billions in money to the NCAA??

  3. #3
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    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    Ander, I agree. But like anything, when you as far over to one side as this seems to do you mute your point. In other words, when your agenda is this apparent, I doubt I'm going to learn anything of any use to me.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    Anyone who has recently paid for a college education or educations can tell you a full ride is no small thing. Worth into the 6 figures.

    Iím not feeling the exploitation argument. They live the dream and get a degree too if they tend to their business.

  5. #5
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    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by ETWNAPPEL View Post
    Anyone who has recently paid for a college education or educations can tell you a full ride is no small thing. Worth into the 6 figures.

    I’m not feeling the exploitation argument. They live the dream and get a degree too if they tend to their business.
    The exploitation argument is there if the colleges keeps players in classes just to stay eligible or revoke scholarships based on injury or lesser performance.

    With the cost of higher education reaching to the stratosphere, a full ride is a God send for any family--but especially low income family that has very limited financial resources.

    Most of us here don't make NBA money I am guessing. But earning college degrees has greatly benefited our financial opportunities.

    That needs to be remembered. I applaud Cal and hope it continues that players are welcome back to earn their degrees after their playing days.
    This will be a day longer remembered. It has seen the end of Pitino and will soon see the end of Louisville. September 27, 2017

  6. #6

    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by UKHistory View Post
    The exploitation argument is there if the colleges keeps players in classes just to stay eligible or revoke scholarships based on injury or lesser performance.
    Without context that sounds bad.

    But when we compare that to all the kids having to work significant hours to maintain their college aid or pay tuition, and still go to class, they are in exactly the same boat in terms of pressure on their time, but will still end up with significant debt versus the free ride of ahtletes, those hours don't look so bad.

    I had to work at my family's business while at UK and Wash U, and go to school with a full load, and mom had to write the checks for the school. I assure you I worked more hours per week than UK basketball players, with few of the benefits. And I was far from alone. I knew lots of people at UK having to really double up to try and find the time and money to get a degree, and that has been true from the start of higher education.

    I know lots of kids who have to balance their courses with having to have time to work, and they don't have full time tutor programs like CATS either.

    As for revoking scholarships for injury, etc., maybe schools do, but I don't think the big schools, the ones doing all this exploiting, do it very often. If they do they should be called out.

    But kids lose their aid packages and scholarships for falling below a certain GPA too, so academic scholarship kids have to "perform" as well or lose their ride. Athletes again are no different.

    At one level they are right, the NCAA is full of bullshit and we all know it. But at the other level, these kids are not slaves who are persecuted in some dark and awful way and lead horrible, repressed lives. There are things that need fixing, but the idea these kids are all being wronged is just wrong.

    They are getting a lot in return, and the vast majority of them are ahead on the deal. The few at the top who could maybe do better with a different deal we can adjust for, but the idea everyone is being horribly exploited is false.
    Last edited by CitizenBBN; 06-11-2018 at 02:59 PM.
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  7. #7

    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    Don't newspapers and television news departments use unpaid interns?

    I guarantee the universities bestow more valuable benefits to their "interns".

  8. #8

    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by kybobcat View Post
    Don't newspapers and television news departments use unpaid interns?

    I guarantee the universities bestow more valuable benefits to their "interns".
    IMO it's just an extension of the victim society. I don't want to get political, but not every job is supposed to be hugely profitable, etc.

    The only argument against what is going on IMO is that the NCAA has created a monopoly situation, and as such the law says they have to then work with a unionized labor force through collective bargaining to avoid an unfair relationship. IMO there's an argument for that to an extent, but there's no requirement for any of these kid to go to college, and when they are making the argument that the education they receive isn't a significant benefit they actually undermine their position on the monopoly argument b/c then they are saying they are making less or the same as they could elsewhere, which means there is no unfair labor situation.

    The NCAA has a TON of issues, and I think they are on very shaky ground on things like banning the player's ability to make money on their name or other activities (I don't think Ford and GM can require their guys not work weekends at the local garage or repair cars on their own), but I bristle at the notion they are so mistreated they are the equivalent of "slaves" or are seriously "exploited". The relationship may be questionable on legal grounds, and may not be a great deal for the top players, but for 98% of NCAA supervised college athletes it's a pretty good deal still.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  9. #9

    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    If the point of this documentary is to expose or highlight the injustices of the NCAA, they should have picked a better individual. Nick is one of those who is a beneficiary. I'm not one of those who claim that an education you may not want is fair compensation while your coach gets millions, your athletic director gets millions and the NCAA gets billions but you get punished for getting a free steak at outback, but in Richards case he actually has the possibility to become an NBA player due to college. Without it, it wasn't a likely option.


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  10. #10
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    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    If memory serves Nick and Diallo were both declared ineligible prior to the start of last season by playing up in New York with a guy working with Lebron.

    That situation is one that sheds a light on the hypocrisy and nitpicking of the NCAA would be a good to showcase in my mind.
    This will be a day longer remembered. It has seen the end of Pitino and will soon see the end of Louisville. September 27, 2017

  11. #11

    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    I don't believe colleges should pay athletes. The employee model is not a good one for a lot of reasons.

    The hypocrisy lies in the amateurism rule, forbidding the kids from outside contracts. Absolute nonsense.
    My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice." For years I was smart. I recommend nice. You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

  12. #12
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    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Genuine Realist View Post
    I don't believe colleges should pay athletes. The employee model is not a good one for a lot of reasons.

    The hypocrisy lies in the amateurism rule, forbidding the kids from outside contracts. Absolute nonsense.
    Exactly amateurism needs to be redefined. Sydney, for instance, should be able in track and field to get all kinds of endorsements, compete in the Olympics and stay in school.

    Nobody is hurt. Scholarships are not taxed but endorsement money is. Pretty simple.
    This will be a day longer remembered. It has seen the end of Pitino and will soon see the end of Louisville. September 27, 2017

  13. #13

    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Genuine Realist View Post
    I don't believe colleges should pay athletes. .
    Me either but I also don't believe they should prohibit them from making money.


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  14. #14

    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Genuine Realist View Post
    I don't believe colleges should pay athletes. The employee model is not a good one for a lot of reasons.

    The hypocrisy lies in the amateurism rule, forbidding the kids from outside contracts. Absolute nonsense.
    This. They aren't employees, but they need to be allowed to earn money on their own brand and name, etc.

    I get why the schools are afraid of it, b/c it will clearly lead to an unbalanced field in recruiting, where a kid coming to UK is bound to make a ton more money than a kid going to Middle Tennessee State, but that unbalanced field already exists and the system is going to blow up if they don't give on this issue.

    Yes we'll have boosters buying 10,000 copies of a kid's autograph or putting together a car lot endorsement deal for him to come to UK or UNC or Kansas, but that's going to mean college ball can attract and RETAIN a ton of talent, and the sport overall will be top notch and, in the interest of the schools and NCAA, very profitable.

    They need to hold their nose and do it.
    Saigon. .... I'm still only in Saigon

  15. #15

    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    I wish someone had exploited me by providing me with a free college education.

  16. #16

    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    I wish they'd kick richards off the team..... or suspend him ... Christ, we dont need the NCAA to put a BIGGER target on our backs because he plays for us..... like they arent going to send out a memo to conferences and officials to stick it to Richards for something like this. ... and thats something we just dont need.

  17. #17

    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    This. They aren't employees, but they need to be allowed to earn money on their own brand and name, etc.

    I get why the schools are afraid of it, b/c it will clearly lead to an unbalanced field in recruiting, where a kid coming to UK is bound to make a ton more money than a kid going to Middle Tennessee State, but that unbalanced field already exists and the system is going to blow up if they don't give on this issue.

    Yes we'll have boosters buying 10,000 copies of a kid's autograph or putting together a car lot endorsement deal for him to come to UK or UNC or Kansas, but that's going to mean college ball can attract and RETAIN a ton of talent, and the sport overall will be top notch and, in the interest of the schools and NCAA, very profitable.

    They need to hold their nose and do it.
    Oh, I'd cut out boosters and others affiliated with the University. That's actually pretty simple to police. (There's be a de minimis rule for autograph shows and the like. I'm not chasing every $25.00 signed basketball.)

    I'd let in the whole wide rest of the world - the NBA on option contracts, legitimate agents, sponsorship groups, etc. The biggie would be NBA option contracts, which would let a kid pocket some significant change while developing that well known potential - as well as growing up - while remaining in school.
    My mother used to tell me, "Elwood, in this world, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so nice." For years I was smart. I recommend nice. You may quote me. - Elwood P. Dowd

  18. #18
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    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    You speak for many. Fortunately when I attended school at UK tuition was $114 per semester. That was still a lot of money to a kid who had to work to make the payments. My only goal as a parent was to have enough to send my kids to school without them having to work or obtain a damn student loan.

    I have trouble feeling sorry for the athletes. The real victims on college campuses are those students, particularly minorities, who are exploited by schools who encourage them to get loans they can never pay back. I had a woman who once worked for me making $35k per year. She had a master's degree in a major that couldn't lead to a good paying job. She had over $60k in student loan debt. I'm convinced she will die, still paying on the debt. Schools and the government make these loans too easy to obtain. You can get a Sallie Mae "Smart Option Loan" for 100% of the Cost of attendance and get an "outstanding" APR of 4 1/2 to 11% for a variable rate and about 5 3/4 to 12% for a fixed rate. The Government knows it. The schools know it. It's one of the games they play. Of course they do encourage students to borrow responsibly. College administrators are absolute sleaze bags. It isn't just athletes they screw. There are much bigger victims.



    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenBBN View Post
    Without context that sounds bad.

    But when we compare that to all the kids having to work significant hours to maintain their college aid or pay tuition, and still go to class, they are in exactly the same boat in terms of pressure on their time, but will still end up with significant debt versus the free ride of ahtletes, those hours don't look so bad.

    I had to work at my family's business while at UK and Wash U, and go to school with a full load, and mom had to write the checks for the school. I assure you I worked more hours per week than UK basketball players, with few of the benefits. And I was far from alone. I knew lots of people at UK having to really double up to try and find the time and money to get a degree, and that has been true from the start of higher education.

    I know lots of kids who have to balance their courses with having to have time to work, and they don't have full time tutor programs like CATS either.

    As for revoking scholarships for injury, etc., maybe schools do, but I don't think the big schools, the ones doing all this exploiting, do it very often. If they do they should be called out.

    But kids lose their aid packages and scholarships for falling below a certain GPA too, so academic scholarship kids have to "perform" as well or lose their ride. Athletes again are no different.

    At one level they are right, the NCAA is full of bullshit and we all know it. But at the other level, these kids are not slaves who are persecuted in some dark and awful way and lead horrible, repressed lives. There are things that need fixing, but the idea these kids are all being wronged is just wrong.

    They are getting a lot in return, and the vast majority of them are ahead on the deal. The few at the top who could maybe do better with a different deal we can adjust for, but the idea everyone is being horribly exploited is false.
    Real Fan since 1958

  19. #19

    Re: Nick Richards featured in HBO/Lebron James documentary on NCAA exploited athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by Genuine Realist View Post
    Oh, I'd cut out boosters and others affiliated with the University. That's actually pretty simple to police. (There's be a de minimis rule for autograph shows and the like. I'm not chasing every $25.00 signed basketball.)

    I'd let in the whole wide rest of the world - the NBA on option contracts, legitimate agents, sponsorship groups, etc. The biggie would be NBA option contracts, which would let a kid pocket some significant change while developing that well known potential - as well as growing up - while remaining in school.
    This is where you and I disagree. You can't police it, and it will be rampant.

    Say I'm a big UK booster and I own a car dealership. I know this hot young recruit, like a Wall or Davis, will already have a lot of buzz. So I put together an endorsement package for him IF he comes to UK. Likewise the car dealer in Kansas and Carolina all do the same.

    Are we going to ban anyone who gives to the school from conducting business with the players? that's the same restraint issue, just narrower. Is my corporate dealership the same as me individually? the law says it's not, even in political donations.

    And in the end once we open this flood gate can we really keep it closed that selectively? No.

    So once it's all said and done UK and Kansas and UNC will be effectively offering endorsement packages as signing bonuses just like the NBA teams do now.

    The shoe companies will be HUGE in this, far more than the NBA, b/c they'll now be able to sign kids early, and do you think they may care which school they then attend to make sure the kid is featured for them? The shoe companies will be so big in this you won't be able to drink at the well without them saying so.

    No, it'll be open season, but the alternative is the G League taking over and college basketball becoming college baseball. IMO that's the choice the NCAA and the schools must make.
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