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Thread: OT: Justify!!

  1. #31

    Re: OT: Justify!!

    Quote Originally Posted by anderwt View Post
    Is the travers the race where both secretariat and AP lost?
    American Pharaoh lost. Don't know about Secretariat. Saratoga is called the graveyard of champions. They take some sort of perverse pride in having a surface that's wildly inconsistent from start to finish. Its sandy and very deep in some places, shallow and clay in others. A lot of horses hate it.

  2. #32
    Super Kitten
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    Re: OT: Justify!!

    Travers is known for the race champions go to die. I think they hold off and run in Breeders Cup classic. Excited as I will be there!

  3. #33

    OT: Justify!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HerbTarlek View Post
    American Pharaoh lost. Don't know about Secretariat. Saratoga is called the graveyard of champions. They take some sort of perverse pride in having a surface that's wildly inconsistent from start to finish. Its sandy and very deep in some places, shallow and clay in others. A lot of horses hate it.
    A lot of great horses have won the Whitney Stakes, including Alydar, but arguably the greatest horse ever, Secretariat, got beat by Onion in the Whitney.

    Both the Whitney and the Travers are ran at Saratoga which is known as the graveyard. Obviously American Pharaoh got beat in the Travers, so either race is nerve racker due to the giants getting beaten.

    Not that Justify needs a win to get in the Classic, but the Whitney is a ďwin and inĒ for the Classic...along with that, big purses brings out the gunslingers.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "I have touched all the so-called capitals of basketball, but when it gets down to the short stroke, the only true capital of basketball is in Lexington." AL McGuire

  4. #34

    Re: OT: Justify!!

    Quote Originally Posted by blueboss View Post
    A lot of great horses have won the Whitney Stakes, including Alydar, but arguably the greatest horse ever, Secretariat, got beat by Onion in the Whitney.

    Both the Whitney and the Travers are ran at Saratoga which is known as the graveyard. Obviously American Pharaoh got beat in the Travers, so either race is nerve racker due to the giants getting beaten.

    Not that Justify needs a win to get in the Classic, but the Whitney is a “win and in” for the Classic...along with that, big purses brings out the gunslingers.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    “Win and you’re in” simply means you don’t have to pay the entrance fee. With George Soros at the party, along with Winstar in tow, I don’t think they have to sweat the 50 grand too much.

    The travers has always carried more prestige than the Whitney. However this year, it depends. I suspect baffert will send justify to which ever race will come up easiest. Needs to stay undefeated for stud value.

  5. #35

    OT: Justify!!

    I donít believe the extra eighth will figure in the decision for which race to run Justify, curious about what Windstar/Baffert will do with Audible.
    "I have touched all the so-called capitals of basketball, but when it gets down to the short stroke, the only true capital of basketball is in Lexington." AL McGuire

  6. #36

    Re: OT: Justify!!

    Iíd run him in the Breeders Cup and then retire him. Much more money to be made from stud fees than stakes races.

  7. #37

    Re: OT: Justify!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TRUCKERCATFAN View Post
    I’d run him in the Breeders Cup and then retire him. Much more money to be made from stud fees than stakes races.
    Not necessarily. Look at cigar. Justify could be a flop at stud.

  8. #38

    Re: OT: Justify!!

    They have already sold his breeding rights, so do they have anything else to gain by racing him? I donít know how it all works, but are they still at risk if he breeds poorly or do the purchasers assume that risk? Do the breeders have any influence on his future?


    https://www.maxim.com/sports/justify...-rights-2018-6

  9. #39

    Re: OT: Justify!!

    [QUOTE=UKFlounder;506645]They have already sold his breeding rights, so do they have anything else to gain by racing him? I don’t know how it all works, but are they still at risk if he breeds poorly or do the purchasers assume that risk? Do the breeders have any influence on his future? [QUOTE]

    The purchase of breeding rights translates to a large minority ownership. Usually 5-20% in exchange for a lump-sum payment. As a consequence, the owner of the breeding rights shoulders a liability commensurate with their % ownership after retirement. This includes all expenses. The owner of the breeding rights has usually negotiated terms of the horses career in advance. In all likelihood, the purchaser of the breeding rights stipulated that the current majority ownership could, in good faith, manage the horses career as they see fit until a specific event or sunset date, at which point the horse would be retired.

  10. #40

    Re: OT: Justify!!

    Thank you

  11. #41

    Re: OT: Justify!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HerbTarlek View Post
    In all likelihood, the purchaser of the breeding rights stipulated that the current majority ownership could, in good faith, manage the horses career as they see fit until a specific event or sunset date, at which point the horse would be retired.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if they race him again, won't that sunset date almost certainly be at the end of his 3 year old campaign?

    I guess they could go one race into his 4 year old year now that there's the Pegasus World Cup with so much money. If he races through and wins the BC Classic, the Pegasus might be a chance to separate himself from Pharoah.

  12. #42

    Re: OT: Justify!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dtalbersjr View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if they race him again, won't that sunset date almost certainly be at the end of his 3 year old campaign?

    I guess they could go one race into his 4 year old year now that there's the Pegasus World Cup with so much money. If he races through and wins the BC Classic, the Pegasus might be a chance to separate himself from Pharoah.
    Itís almost a certainty that the ultimate event is the breeders cup. If he raced at all in his 4 year old season, heíd miss the breeding season, which is more or less over in April. It would be a waste of time and money.

  13. #43

    Re: OT: Justify!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HerbTarlek View Post
    It’s almost a certainty that the ultimate event is the breeders cup. If he raced at all in his 4 year old season, he’d miss the breeding season, which is more or less over in April. It would be a waste of time and money.
    Didn’t think about that. Good point.

  14. #44

    OT: Justify!!

    How about that for a career? Ten months, seven, maybe eight races, then off to the stud barn.

    Good work, if you can get it.


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    "I have touched all the so-called capitals of basketball, but when it gets down to the short stroke, the only true capital of basketball is in Lexington." AL McGuire

  15. #45
    Unforgettable
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    Re: OT: Justify!!

    Herb, I always appreciate your perspective on racing.
    Real Fan since 1958

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